Israel's march to the Dark Ages

[bloodyminded]

Time to walk on water for the people.

Not sure how to fake it. Maybe I'll just say God told me I could walk on water, if I chose, but that such demonstrations don't adhere to the necessity of the people's faith in me.

Faith, I'm informed, is everything.

[bud]

Also, fooled by Shaitan.

Well, not really; it's a monotheistic hypothesis, an attempt to explain an early reconciliation with pantheism. Some goddesses, whose "intercession is required." The reconciliation quickly abandoned in favour of "one God only."

The apocryphal tale is probably untrue anyway, though the "official" idea of dude talking to God on the hillside doesn't do it for me either. (To be fair to the pantheists, the idea of multiple gods in dispute seems better suited to the human experience anyway.)

Part of Rushdie's troubles came from this idea (hence the name of the novel) but which also referred to intentional "mistakes" by the Prophet's Persian translator. Then Rushdie named whores in a brothel after the Prophet's wives, and I think that's what really set the Ayatollah off. Even though Khomeini never read the damn thing.

Personally, I don't blame him. The book is ambitious and brilliant, but also dull as fuck and insufferable as hell. It kind of sucks, really, and is one of the more overrated well-known novels of the modern era.(But declaring a death sentence for a book you've never read seems a little harsh, no?)

i've read many of rushdie's books. the latest was shalimar the clown, which was a fun and adventurous read. i'd agree with you that satanic versus was a bit of a dull read. it received far more attention than it deserves.

based on many of rushdie's characters i find that he has an undeniable dislike for muslim fundamentalists and a slight crush on the jews. this is one of the reasons he is so well received in the jewish community.

that said, the ayatollah and the rest of the like-minded iranian mullah's are a bunch of idiots. they are as repugnant as people like pat robertson and rabbi yitzhak shapiro.

[bloodyminded]

i've read many of rushdie's books. the latest was shalimar the clown, which was a fun and adventurous read. i'd agree with you that satanic versus was a bit of a dull read. it received far more attention than it deserves.

based on many of rushdie's characters i find that he has an undeniable dislike for muslim fundamentalists and a slight crush on the jews. this is one of the reasons he is so well received in the jewish community.

that said, the ayatollah and the rest of the like-minded iranian mullah's are a bunch of idiots. they are as repugnant as people like pat robertson and rabbi yitzhak shapiro.

I used to enjoy Rushdie, but I like him less and less as time goes by. I still think Midnight's Children is a fantastic novel; the others, all of them, I can take or leave.

[bud]

agreed. it was midnight's children that brings me back to reading more of his books. unfortunately none of his following novels have been able to come close to it.

back to the original topic; the growing international pressure aside, israel is imploding. the powers that tip the scale in israeli political agenda are, unfortunately, the extreme rightwing parties who are pro-settlement and anti-palestinian statehood. they're not able to accept that a palestinian state is going to happen. then you also have the group of businessmen who use these groups for support and who are making a killing from the developments in the occupied territories, including east jerusalem. so they're fine with milking it as long as they can and they'll invest their money into lobbying and pushing the israeli government towards the destructive direction.

one of the biggest obstacles that the extreme right wing israeli government is facing are the growing number of jews outside of israel who are speaking out against them.

[DogOnPorch]

one of the biggest obstacles that the extreme right wing israeli government is facing are the growing number of jews outside of israel who are speaking out against them.

Finkelstein, Chomsky, Peto and who else, now?

[Saipan]

Not sure how to fake it. Maybe I'll just say God told me I could walk on water

Cris Angel can too.

And levitate....

[DogOnPorch]

Cris Angel can too.

And levitate....

Penn and Teller would surely cry Bulls***.

[Saipan]

Are they allowed here?

[jbg]

Finkelstein, Chomsky, Peto and who else, now?

jstreet.org as well.

[Saipan]

So Numb Chimpsky too, eh.

[Rue]

It can go on as long as other posters here keep posting the Islam=evil. Let's just call it balance.

No let's just call it you trying to justify flame baiting with a very lame excuse shall we.

What if someone says something extremist against Muslims you think its balanced to do the same about Jews.

Brilliant logic.

I guess that is why a buttox has two cheeks though not one.

[Rue]

Jesus, Mosses, Mohamed don't have to be myths. There are plenty of crazy people who think they're talking to a higher being. José Luis de Jesús Miranda thinks he is the messiah, speaks with "God", and has millions of Christian followers.

How about you? How many followers do you think you have? Who do you answer to? From the soubndsof it not only is the above absolutely pointless but it proves again but one thing-you are on this forum to hear yourself pontificate.

Do you have any actual position on anything? Look Gost Hacked may think your baiting and flaming balances a conspiracy of Zionist flamers on this forum but now see me, I call it for what it is, you flapping your gums with nothing to say.

Tell me other then smeering all Jews which you have miserably tried to do in a very transparent and pointless matter what have you achieved. You baited. Now what?

Do you want me to say nyah nyah? What is it you want? Do you even know?

I would suggest people put you on ignore. I would also suggest you and Gost continue to provide balance if that is what Gost thinks irrational flame baiting is.

Lol.

Boo!

You remind me of a Jack Rusell terrier. Go find out what a Canaan dog is and keep your distance from it. Lol.

[GostHacked]

No let's just call it you trying to justify flame baiting with a very lame excuse shall we.

Call it whatever you like. I don't troll. I don't flame bait.

What if someone says something extremist against Muslims you think its balanced to do the same about Jews.

Jews, or Israelis? I do speak out against Israel. I try not to speak out against Jews (eventhough I may inadvertently do so). I can at least differentiate between the two groups.

[Rue]

Very interesting thread.

Lol..and you feel the above plug was layed down delicately do you?

Lol, more like an elephant taking a crap in my opinion. Lol. What was your point for the plug?

Oh do share.

Kerplop.

[Rue]

Call it whatever you like. I don't troll. I don't flame bait.

Jews, or Israelis? I do speak out against Israel. I try not to speak out against Jews (eventhough I may inadvertently do so). I can at least differentiate between the two groups.

Uh yah and that is why you felt the need to state Lefty is providing balance.

Lol.

Come on. No you don't engage in what Lefty does of course not, but you are trying to defend it. That is what I am challenging. Not you. What you are now trying to defend as balance.

Ignorance is ignorance. You can't balance ignorance with more ignorance you can only escalate the ignorance.

Once you start flinging the poo like an angry primate, saying the poo flinging needs to be balanced is a tad absurd. The point is it smells no matter who throws it.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Rue

[Saipan]

Jews, or Israelis? I do speak out against Israel. I try not to speak out against Jews (eventhough I may inadvertently do so). I can at least differentiate between the two groups.

Sometimes I speak against Canada, but never against Canadians

[Post To The Left]

How about you? How many followers do you think you have? Who do you answer to? From the soubndsof it not only is the above absolutely pointless but it proves again but one thing-you are on this forum to hear yourself pontificate.

Do you have any actual position on anything? Look Gost Hacked may think your baiting and flaming balances a conspiracy of Zionist flamers on this forum but now see me, I call it for what it is, you flapping your gums with nothing to say.

Tell me other then smeering all Jews which you have miserably tried to do in a very transparent and pointless matter what have you achieved. You baited. Now what?

Do you want me to say nyah nyah? What is it you want? Do you even know?

I would suggest people put you on ignore. I would also suggest you and Gost continue to provide balance if that is what Gost thinks irrational flame baiting is.

Lol.

Boo!

You remind me of a Jack Rusell terrier. Go find out what a Canaan dog is and keep your distance from it. Lol.

You do realize that your trolling and attempting to bait me is incredibly ... well it's like a free ride when you've already paid

and well just sad.

[GostHacked]

Uh yah and that is why you felt the need to state Lefty is providing balance.

I am not a lefty. Or a righty.

Lol.

For someone that is usually way more articulate in their posts, I am surprised you use LOL as much as you do.

Come on. No you don't engage in what Lefty does of course not, but you are trying to defend it. That is what I am challenging. Not you. What you are now trying to defend as balance.

Hey Rue, this is a forum to debate. I can be 'devil's advocate' whenever I want to be.

Ignorance is ignorance. You can't balance ignorance with more ignorance you can only escalate the ignorance.

Why not? It seems to be done all the time for those who support Israel. Ignorance is not recognizing Israel's own abhorent actions in certain situations.

Once you start flinging the poo like an angry primate, saying the poo flinging needs to be balanced is a tad absurd. The point is it smells no matter who throws it.

One of the oddest posts I have ever read from you, period. Again because I must point out, you have the record of being much more articulate than that.

[jbg]

You remind me of a Jack Rusell terrier. Go find out what a Canaan dog is and keep your distance from it. Lol.

Your posts are fast becoming a parody of a typical Rue post; long, repetitive, insulting and rude.

[Saipan]

Ignorance is not recognizing Israel's own abhorent actions in certain situations.

Like for example.

[Rue]

Your posts are fast becoming a parody of a typical Rue post; long, repetitive, insulting and rude.

Oh look name calling because someone is still in a snit for being called out by me. Tsk.

[Rue]

You do realize that your trolling and attempting to bait me is incredibly ... well it's like a free ride when you've already paid

and well just sad.

What I do realize is when you troll and are challenged on it you have no idea how to respond to what you are being challenged to which should be no surprise to anyone.

Here let me say it again because JBG likes my challenging and calling people out when they are being deliberately hostile and trying to incite people-you came on this forum to incite name calling against Israel and I challenge you for it and not expressing any political position.

[Rue]

1-I am not a lefty. Or a righty.

2-I am surprised you use LOL as much as you do.

3-Hey Rue, this is a forum to debate. I can be 'devil's advocate' whenever I want to be.

4-It (being debliberately negative and inflammatory)( seems to be done all the time for those who support Israel. Ignorance is not recognizing Israel's own abhorent actions in certain situations.

5-One of the oddest posts I have ever read from you, period.

In regards to 1, I don't want to know what you do with yourself in your spare time. Thanks but in case you did not notice I did not even attempt to suggest what hand you use nor do I care.

In regards to 2, I do when you or others make me laugh and the calibre of threads and responses has been doing that lately. By the way I feel a Lol coming on in regards to your choice of hands. Either way I hope your approach gets you the satisfaction you seek.

In regards to 3, is that like nyah nyah I know you are but what am I? Lol. Oh dear I used Lol again. Does that bother you? Here's a helpful tip, if you want to argue two wronngs make a right, go ahead-that's not playing devil's advocate though-playing devil's advocate is presenting a well reasoned counter point to someone's point. What you are in fact referring to is flinging poo at someone because they fling poo at you. That's not playing devil's advocate. That's called being a poo flinger...but please be my guest. You say nyah nyah back to the other's nyah nyah.

In regards to 4, now for someone criticizing me, you kind of fell apart on that one now didn't you? There is no logic in your response at all.

First you make a sweeping negative generalization that all supporters of Israel all engage in the same ignorance which is is illogical since you do can't know how and what all

Israel supporters think but that didn't seem to stop you with this

sweeping assumption:

"seems to be done all the time for those who support Israel".

"seems", tell me is that in reference to an objective methodology you

used to measure all Israel supporters' opinions?

Your second definition of ignorance was stated as follows:

"Ignorance is not recognizing Israel's own abhorent actions in

certain situations."

In regards to the above definition of ignorance it might be but it

clearly is not the ignorant behaviour I was challenging and so your

attempt to change the context of the ignorance I was challenging

is illogical.

At no time did I state it is not possible to be ignorant in support

of Israel. You are addressing a possible example of ignorance

I never challenged or raised with you.

What makes it more "odd" using your words is that I have challenged

equally supporters of Israel like JBG and now people like you and

Left for the exact same reasons and that is not because you support

one side or the other-but because you choose to make sweeping negative

generalizations about the other side which I challenge.

I also challenge you both equally because I believe your comments in

those instances where I challenge them are designed to name call

and make negative assumptions about the motives of the other side of

the debate.

So your attempt to try bait and switch the kind of ignorance I challenge

you and others for is not going to work.

More to the point even if someone does engage in unfair criticism of

Palestinians, how does levelling equally as unfair criticism of

Israelis achieve anything positive?

I asked you that question and you ignored me. Why? Why did you try bait and

switch the ignorance I challenge and the question I posed to you?

Can you answer it? Can you honestly say if you respond to an ignorant

statement about Palestinians by making an equally ignorant one about Israelis you will achieve anything but throwing manure at your opponent?

Well?

5-You find my responses odd? You find my LOL's annoying?

Say now I guess we are even because I find your what's wrong with flinging poo at poo question and two wrongs make a right position annoying.

Come now.We were given the gift of reasoning. We have choices other then

flinging poo back when its flung at us. We have two other options-one is two ignore the poo flinging and the other is to answer it with reasoned response pointing out the lack of logic in the other's comments and avoiding using name calling and insulting back but sticking to the issue.

In this instance you do not advocate the devil's advocate position which would be the latter, you in fact advocate farting at someone who farts at you. (I am trying to keep the analogy simple simple because JBG finds my responses obtuse and difficult to follow and he sulks when I tell him noto fat at people who he thinks fart at him for being Jewish.)

Odd? Say we are even. I never thought I would read a post from you trying to argue responding to ignorance with equally as ignorant comments was something we should strive for let alone is an example of playing devil's advocate.

In summary, LOL.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Rue

[GostHacked]

In regards to 1, I don't want to know what you do with yourself in your spare time. Thanks but in case you did not notice I did not even attempt to suggest what hand you use nor do I care.

I can do both. Also I am a big fan of 'The Stranger'.

In regards to 2, I do when you or others make me laugh and the calibre of threads and responses has been doing that lately. By the way I feel a Lol coming on in regards to your choice of hands. Either way I hope your approach gets you the satisfaction you seek.

Who is trolling now?

In regards to 3, is that like nyah nyah I know you are but what am I? Lol. Oh dear I used Lol again. Does that bother you? Here's a helpful tip, if you want to argue two wronngs make a right, go ahead-that's not playing devil's advocate though-playing devil's advocate is presenting a well reasoned counter point to someone's point. What you are in fact referring to is flinging poo at someone because they fling poo at you. That's not playing devil's advocate. That's called being a poo flinger...but please be my guest. You say nyah nyah back to the other's nyah nyah.

You get what you give. I did not fling poo first, since I can't beat you, I'll just join you in the poo flinging.

In regards to 4, now for someone criticizing me, you kind of fell apart on that one now didn't you. You make a sweeping negative generalization that supporters of Israel are all guilty of ignorance with these words:

"seems to be done all the time for those who support Israel".

It is a generalization indeed. I won't deny that. But we have the staunch Israel supporters who defend Israel in anything the country and the IDF does. And we also have the staunch Palestinian supporters. But I have seen it here that the Palestinian supporters can even admit when the Palestinians (well more or less Hammas) have done wrong. But we rarely get that from the other side.

You of course responded and argued that since one set of debaters is inflammatory and ignorant, it gives the other the same right to be inflammatory and ignorant. Again you try justify engaging in ignorance by saying its just responding to someone else's ignorance. That is illogical.

Kind of like most of Israel's supporters.

We were given the gift of reasoning. We have choices other then flinging poo back when its flung at us. We have two other options-one is two ignore the poo flinging and the other is to answer it with reasoned response pointing out the lack of logic in the other's comments and avoding using name calling and insulting back but sticking to the issue.

I called you names?

In this instance you do not advocate the devil's advocate position which would be the latter, you in fact advocate farting at someone who farts at you. (I am trying to keep it simple because JBG finds my responses obtuse and difficult to follow and he sulks when I tell him he farts out loud and might want to eat less beans, figuratively speaking of course and now I do the same with you)

Do unto others as you would have done to you. I did not ask to get shit on, but I am not above giving some shit back.

5-Odd? Say we are even. I never thought I would read a post from you trying to argue responding to ignorance with equally as ignorant comments was something we should strive for let alone is an example of playing devil's advocate.

Ignorance begets ignorance, I guess. It's what I had to work with.

In summary, LOL.

And to think I used to read your post with respect.

But we have gotten off topic here.

[Rue]

Are they allowed here?

Not if they are Zionists. We should deport them to Poland. I mention that because both Normie Finklestein and Numb Chumpsky ( I think I spelled his name right) both suggested that. Also I think Shwa feels that way too from a previous comment he made to me.