Does the Death of the BLOC mean the end of Sovereignty?

[Dave_ON]

So honestly I'm looking to get feedback from Quebec specifically, but anyone is free to answer. I think it's definitely premature to say that sovereignty is dead in Quebec, though I'm certainly glad to see the BLOC go. Have Federalist parties in every corner of the country will only benefit us all.

It's my hope that one of the first items in the new budget is the removal of the vote subsidy. This would eliminate the BLOC entirely, not that they were due very much money this time around anyway. However, it would also ensure that never again could a regional party get it's funding from federal coffers.

I'm especially interested to hear August's take on this whole affair.

[cybercoma]

It might actually mean quite the opposite. They've given up on Ottawa and will simply act as though they are sovereign. Marois has already hinted at this.

[Benz]

It might actually mean quite the opposite. They've given up on Ottawa and will simply act as though they are sovereign. Marois has already hinted at this.

Exactly.

However, the field is very fertile in Québec to go on constitutional negociations. Which is the total opposite in english Canada. So you can expect to see sovereignty in Québec's agenda.

Alot of sovereignists were against the Bloc. They beleive that the Bloc helped the federal to work fine. English Canada was not paying attention to the Bloc despite a majority of Québécois voted for them and the Québécois had the feeling the Québec's interests were well represented in Ottawa because of the Bloc. That's why a substential number of sovereignists shifted to NDP.

Now that the Bloc is no more, the chances of the PQ to win and bring sovereignty on the frontline are higher. Unless... English Canada does a 180 degrees turn around and offer something good to Québec and negociate for real. Not likely to happen anytime soon from what I see.

[Battletoads]

No, if anything I'd bet there will be another referendum around 2015. If Quebec's hatred of Harper holds I'd imagine they may be successful.

[Benz]

No, if anything I'd bet there will be another referendum around 2015. If Quebec's hatred of Harper holds I'd imagine they may be successful.

Hatred is not the proper word. Québec hates alot more Trudeau and Chrétien than it hate Harper.

Harper is just the opposite of what Québec is and want. While Trudeau and Chrétien knew more than Harper what to say to please Québec and then betray Québec. Trudeau and Chrétien are traitors. Harper is a foreign leader.

Harper had more success when he was starting to try and please Québec with the motion on Québécois nation and stuff like that. But he didn't go further and thought he had enough support to get the majority next time. So he lost alot of support and got its majority anyway. This won't help him to gain sympaty in Québec at all. Québec is not afraid of being in the opposition as you can see.

So be accurate, Québec does not like Harper but, it does not hate him.

[Topaz]

It all depends on Harper and how much he will allow to have Layton support Quebec. If he doesn't then the Bloc will come back in the next election unless , the Liberals have build their party and have a leader that Quebec can support.

[cybercoma]

Québec really needs to be afforded its own autonomy within a united Canada. The other provinces cannot claim the historical and cultural distinction that separates Québec from the rest of Canada, and in fact the rest of North America. The preservation of her heritage and identity should be of a paramount concern for Canada. So long as that is honoured, I don't see why Québec cannot remain a part of Canada.

[g_bambino]

The other provinces cannot claim the historical and cultural distinction that separates Québec from the rest of Canada...

The same could be said about Newfoundland. And Manitoba.

Quebec is one of eleven jurisdictions in a federation that's built around the notion that all its parts are equal. Canadian confederation cannot work with one body having a status the others don't.

[Triple M]

Sovereignty hasn't been a realistic threat in a number of years but it will never be completely dead no matter where parties such as the BQ/PQ stand. There is still a hardcore sovereignty core of around 20-30% and there is a large group of soft nationalist that potentially can flip back at a future date.

[ToadBrother]

It might actually mean quite the opposite. They've given up on Ottawa and will simply act as though they are sovereign. Marois has already hinted at this.

Well the Bloc and the PQ are certainly going to try to argue it that way. I don't buy it. I don't think it means the end of Sovereignty. It likely means the end of the experiment of having a sovereignist party in Ottawa.

[scouterjim]

So honestly I'm looking to get feedback from Quebec specifically, but anyone is free to answer. I think it's definitely premature to say that sovereignty is dead in Quebec, though I'm certainly glad to see the BLOC go. Have Federalist parties in every corner of the country will only benefit us all.

It's my hope that one of the first items in the new budget is the removal of the vote subsidy. This would eliminate the BLOC entirely, not that they were due very much money this time around anyway. However, it would also ensure that never again could a regional party get it's funding from federal coffers.

I'm especially interested to hear August's take on this whole affair.

As long as the Feds (no matter which party) keep giving Quebec goodies everytime Quebec whispers "separtism", the Quebecois will never leave.

[Sandy MacNab]

No, if anything I'd bet there will be another referendum around 2015. If Quebec's hatred of Harper holds I'd imagine they may be successful.

I think it'll depend a lot more on Layton's ability to convince the ROC to continue delivering the milk and honey.

[Benz]

The same could be said about Newfoundland. And Manitoba.

Quebec is one of eleven jurisdictions in a federation that's built around the notion that all its parts are equal. Canadian confederation cannot work with one body having a status the others don't.

Wrong. NF and Manitoba were on Ottawa's side every single time. While Québec is always left alone every time negociations regarding the system occur. So far, all the provinces officially agree to the current system and do not claim any sort of autonomy anyway. Only Québec is doing so. The 9 others always agreed together at the expense of Québec.

If out of the sudden NF claims more autonomy, then they should at least start the debate in first place.

---

As long as the Feds (no matter which party) keep giving Quebec goodies everytime Quebec whispers "separtism", the Quebecois will never leave.

That was true before the Bloc won in 1993. For the last 18 years, no federalist party on the federal scene were able to win a majority in Québec despite all the promises of goodies. Well until Layton said he would reopen the constitution and bang! 58 Québec seats. That's not a goody with $$$. It's a political proposition.

Québec soverainists do not want money from the others. Just a fair system, decentralized and a hand on the supreme rules, so they are not in the hands of the anglos only.

[g_bambino]

Wrong. NF and Manitoba were on Ottawa's side every single time. While Québec is always left alone every time negociations regarding the system occur. So far, all the provinces officially agree to the current system and do not claim any sort of autonomy anyway. Only Québec is doing so. The 9 others always agreed together at the expense of Québec.

What a sad piece of fiction. Are you published? Regardless, you obviously missed the central focus of the discussion, which was about Quebec having a unique culture. It does (mostly), but, so does Newfoundland and (to a lesser extent) Manitoba. It really irks you that Quebec isn't a special as you think it is.

[PIK]

All the bloc did was change it's name to the NDP.

[Dave_ON]

What a sad piece of fiction. Are you published? Regardless, you obviously missed the central focus of the discussion, which was about Quebec having a unique culture. It does (mostly), but, so does Newfoundland and (to a lesser extent) Manitoba. It really irks you that Quebec isn't a special as you think it is.

I'd further say that the Maritimes (NB, NS and PEI) also have a unique culture about them. NB specifically is the only province that has a large English/French mix. Acadians are really their own culture. Alberta is also unique as is BC. I'd say that only Ontario, isn't particularly distinct, which I suppose in and of itself makes it a special case too hah.

On a side note I always find it funny that those from Quebec think themselves so unique because they are french, yet their are many distinct french cultures outside of Quebec, especially in N NB and S NS.

[g_bambino]

On a side note I always find it funny that those from Quebec think themselves so unique because they are french, yet their are many distinct french cultures outside of Quebec, especially in N NB and S NS.

Some Quebeckers seem to think that, yes. CANADIEN (a Franco-Ontarian himself, I believe) has tried to point these facts out to Benz, but Benz just seems to continue to operate under the delusion that all Fancophone Canadians outside of Quebec are just the lost children of the laine pur Québécois and support Quebec's freedom from the so called imperialist asperations of Canada (operating as an agent of the British). I don't know who he thinks he's going to win over with that kind of assertion.

[noahbody]

Alberta is also unique as is BC.

Why do you think that's true?

[Triple M]

All the bloc did was change it's name to the NDP.

Agreed, I was surprised to learn of some of their soft nationalist policies. Right now I'm questioning whether they can even be considered a National party.

[Benz]

What a sad piece of fiction. Are you published? Regardless, you obviously missed the central focus of the discussion, which was about Quebec having a unique culture. It does (mostly), but, so does Newfoundland and (to a lesser extent) Manitoba. It really irks you that Quebec isn't a special as you think it is.

I'm not saying they don't have a distinct culture. That is not my point at all. I am saying they do not claim to have a different opinion about the current system. In the mindset of all provinces, the system is just fine as is and it doesn't affect their cultures.

While in Québec, it's the other way around. Because our culture is more different from the others, than the others are from one another. The other provinces always agreed with how the federal is run. Québec never agreed.

Stop putting in my mouth words I have not said.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Benz

[noahbody]

It all depends on Harper and how much he will allow to have Layton support Quebec. If he doesn't then the Bloc will come back in the next election unless , the Liberals have build their party and have a leader that Quebec can support.

I would say the death of the bloc and the popularity of the NDP in the province depend on how well Harper treats Quebec. Both Harper and Layton know that.

As far as sovereignty goes, it really hasn't had life for years. Sovereignists can rise up, but at the end of the day, there's no chance of a referendum succeeding as long as Harper is PM. The reason is unlike Chretien, who fought the referendum largely on emotional arguments, Harper would would make it a rational choice, spelling out what Quebec would lose if it left Canada.

[Benz]

On a side note I always find it funny that those from Quebec think themselves so unique because they are french, yet their are many distinct french cultures outside of Quebec, especially in N NB and S NS.

What are you trying to say?

So what about the english Quebecers in Québec? What's your point?

Québec is the only one with a huge french majority while the 9 others have a clear english majority.

What is it you don't understand with that simple fact?

[fellowtraveller]

Québec really needs to be afforded its own autonomy within a united Canada. The other provinces cannot claim the historical and cultural distinction that separates Québec from the rest of Canada, and in fact the rest of North America. The preservation of her heritage and identity should be of a paramount concern for Canada. So long as that is honoured, I don't see why Québec cannot remain a part of Canada.

Blah blah blah. Get to the point.

How much will it cost?

[Benz]

Blah blah blah. Get to the point.

How much will it cost?

WTF? It's not about money. Better than that, you keep whinning that Québec survives from others' money. A more autonomous Québec will depend on its on. The question you should ask is, how much it will stop to cost you.

Unless you realise that maybe it's the other way around. Canada is milking Québec.

[fellowtraveller]

WTF? It's not about money. Better than that, you keep whinning that Québec survives from others' money. A more autonomous Québec will depend on its on. The question you should ask is, how much it will stop to cost you.

Unless you realise that maybe it's the other way around. Canada is milking Québec.

50,000 comedians out of work and we get this guy.

get to the point.

How much?