I am going to vote Liberal today

[cybercoma]

In short, I don't give much weight to people who claim that Harper is a dictatorial, selfish, autocrat. First, the claims entirely miss the point about politicians. And second, Harper in practice gets along with people.

That's all very well that he gets along with people. As you say, politicians are ambitious and use that to their advantage.

Harper, however, has worked tirelessly to keep information from the House of Commons. He's beholden to Parliament, especially on matters of money. Since he does not want to answer for his actions he's asking for a majority government, to be able to do whatever the hell he wants without being questioned. Add to that the fact that he goes on the campaign trail, repeats the same scripted speech at every stop and refuses to answer questions from the media and in practice you have the makings of a dictatorial, selfish autocrat. You may not like the claims because perhaps you support the idea that a government doesn't need to tell parliament where it's spending the taxpayers money. However, that doesn't make it any less true that this behaviour is exactly dictatorial and selfish.

[noahbody]

So I was more than willing to consider an alternative, and Michael Ignatieff doesn't seem like a bad guy to me. I'm a little perplexed as to why so many people react negatively to him. His speaking voice? His eyebrows? I hear that he's "arrogant" a lot. I don't know.

I had high hopes for Ignatieff in the beginning when he was a terrible politician and would speak his mind. He never has been the leader of the Liberal Party though. It's the Party that's led him. The problem with the liberal party is that in a minority, they are the last party who will address politicized issues. Martin branded himself as "the defender of health care." Our system is ranked 30th. It needs to be de-politicized and improved. We also don't need to follow the world into half-wit schemes like Kyoto. Again that was politicized. Though it wasn't politically correct, Harper was the leader who stood up and pointed out that the politically popular Kyoto was a flawed 'solution' that didn't do anything for the environment and was completely pointless without the US, China and India. That's what leadership is to me. It's not always being popular. It's having the nuts to do the right thing for Canada. Canada's identity should be a country that's an intelligent, responsible leader. The intelligent and responsible thing to do at this point in time is to address some pretty touchy issues. There have been some bonehead moves like the G-20. The could just have that at the UN and save a billion or use Skype.

[wyly]

Its all about the money all of the time. Reform had good cost fiscal ideas, and right now harper has the best economic platform. I don't care how he treats the gnomes in the cpc party, just deliver on the economy. If it starts to suck, vote him out or stay home. And during harper's tenure he has done a good job running the economy. He can be the biggest jerk to his party. Its not like he's all of a sudden a dictator.

harper's done a good job running the economy???

1-he didn't see the recession coming despite warnings from the banks

2-he projected no deficit and a small surplus

3-when the recession hit he was forced into a stimulus plan by the opposition then took credit for it

4-he's run up the largest deficit in canada's history and at the same time cut taxes needed to pay it down

increased spending on less revenue oh ya harper's a financial genius

[wyly]

This is an astute and an important observation. (I'm glad not to be alone in thinking it.):

yes I don't want to see the liberals disappear either, democracy is better with more parties than fewer...

[PIK]

I will vote con. Harper is not the boogey man the media has played him to be and to believe all of that is pretty stupid. I see a man that is quiet, shy type, does not like crowds or speaking to groups of people, which is like many other canadians. He is a great family man likes to listen and play music and loves hockey, is not a lawyer and did not have silver spoon life. Like harper said , he knows he is not the one people would want to have a beer with ,but he is the one we want leading this counrty right at this time.This is not the time to ''try jack''Hold your nose and vote harper, for the sake of the country do it.

[blueblood]

harper's done a good job running the economy???

1-he didn't see the recession coming despite warnings from the banks

2-he projected no deficit and a small surplus

3-when the recession hit he was forced into a stimulus plan by the opposition then took credit for it

4-he's run up the largest deficit in canada's history and at the same time cut taxes needed to pay it down

increased spending on less revenue oh ya harper's a financial genius

1) Harper doesn't want to make statements that further spook investors. Politicians have to be cheerleaders of the economy. Note at what bay street did when jack was flapping his gums and rising in popularity

2)See above

3)Of course he's going to take credit for it. Whether the stimulus actually worked or not is highly debatable. Harper is in a no lose situation. Had the stimulus not worked he would have raked the coalition under the coals

4) Thanks to the opposition we have a massive deficit. Had harper had his way in 2008, no stimulus and a smaller deficit. Oh and you need to adjust for inflation when talking about the largest deficits in history as money had more purchasing power then. That honor belongs to trudeau.

5) Harper has run smaller deficits than predicted and is expected to slay the deficit in 3-4 yrs. No plan from the liberals.

6) Harper was managing the country during the "recession" and we lead the g8 in unemployment and gdp growth. But then you'll be saying how martin as finance minister left harper with an advantage, well michael wilson and mulroney left martin with an advantage, nafta and the gst anyone.

7) Seems to me that cutting taxes over the last decade has resulted in growth and increased govt revenues, don't think tax hikes are the way to grow an economy where taxes come from. Our corporate taxes have been falling at the same time as the "massive deficit" whod have thunk it?

Sounds like he's running the economy good to me. The falling unemployment, falling deficit, and rising gdp numbers don't lie.

[nittanylionstorm07]

4) Thanks to the opposition we have a massive deficit. Had harper had his way in 2008, no stimulus and a smaller deficit. Oh and you need to adjust for inflation when talking about the largest deficits in history as money had more purchasing power then. That honor belongs to trudeau.

5) Harper has run smaller deficits than predicted and is expected to slay the deficit in 3-4 yrs. No plan from the liberals.

You're contradicting yourself.

[wyly]

I will vote con. Harper is not the boogey man the media has played him to be and to believe all of that is pretty stupid. I see a man that is quiet, shy type, does not like crowds or speaking to groups of people, which is like many other canadians. He is a great family man likes to listen and play music and loves hockey, is not a lawyer and did not have silver spoon life. Like harper said , he knows he is not the one people would want to have a beer with ,but he is the one we want leading this counrty right at this time.This is not the time to ''try jack''Hold your nose and vote harper, for the sake of the country do it.

ghadaffi is a great family man too most fathers are...political leaders can pursue their policies but not treat our democratic process with contempt, the economy is not more important than our democratic process...

[blueblood]

You're contradicting yourself.

Nope, the deficit was coming. Harper was forced into opening up the spending spigot by the coalition.

The deficits each year after that are getting smaller and have been smaller than predicted.

[wyly]

1) Harper doesn't want to make statements that further spook investors. Politicians have to be cheerleaders of the economy. Note at what bay street did when jack was flapping his gums and rising in popularity

2)See above

:lol: spook the investors, the coming recesion/housing crisis was common knowledge everybody already knew...

3)Of course he's going to take credit for it. Whether the stimulus actually worked or not is highly debatable. Harper is in a no lose situation. Had the stimulus not worked he would have raked the coalition under the coals

4) Thanks to the opposition we have a massive deficit. Had harper had his way in 2008, no stimulus and a smaller deficit. Oh and you need to adjust for inflation when talking about the largest deficits in history as money had more purchasing power then. That honor belongs to trudeau.

oh my delusional...and Mulroney's deficit was double that of Trudeau's and inspite of hitting us with a GST...

5) Harper has run smaller deficits than predicted and is expected to slay the deficit in 3-4 yrs. No plan from the liberals.

ya the maybe, possibly, if we're lucky and all the stars aline harper plan in 4, 5, 6, x yrs???...even I can come up with a maybe plan...

6) Harper was managing the country during the "recession" and we lead the g8 in unemployment and gdp growth. But then you'll be saying how martin as finance minister left harper with an advantage, well michael wilson and mulroney left martin with an advantage, nafta and the gst anyone.

Mulroney set the deficit record at that time with the GST...

7) Seems to me that cutting taxes over the last decade has resulted in growth and increased govt revenues, don't think tax hikes are the way to grow an economy where taxes come from. Our corporate taxes have been falling at the same time as the "massive deficit" whod have thunk it?

Sounds like he's running the economy good to me. The falling unemployment, falling deficit, and rising gdp numbers don't lie.

sorry you're religiously delusional... Edited May 2, 2011 by wyly

[blueblood]

:lol: spook the investors, the coming recesion/housing crisis was common knowledge everybody already knew...

oh my delusional...and Mulroney's deficit was double that of Trudeau's and inspite of hitting us with a GST...

ya the maybe, possibly, if we're lucky and all the stars aline harper plan in 4, 5, 6, x yrs???...even I can come up with a maybe plan...

Mulroney set the deficit record at that time with the GST...

sorry you're religiously delusional...

Mulroney had interest payments to bondholders who the trudeau govt borrowed from. Those interest payments ran the country further into debt, but don't let facts get in the way of that.

[ToadBrother]

Mulroney had interest payments to bondholders who the trudeau govt borrowed from. Those interest payments ran the country further into debt, but don't let facts get in the way of that.

I know in some circles the GST is still the equivalent of eating glass, but to be honest, in the long term, it was one of the chief legacies of the Mulroney years.

[Ottawavalleyboy]

Good thread.

A guy that I know has a friend whose brother married this woman....

I have worked in government/political circles and IMHO, once you get to the PMO, you are no longer dealing with people in the same way as your neighbour or your boss. The "niceness" factor is just another attribute to be played. The overriding characteristic of politicians at this level is their ambition. Do you think Chretien was a nice guy? (I'll admit that Chretien loved to work a crowd.)

Harper seems to get along with his wife and kids. Harper and Flaherty make a good team. Harper has stood by and taken heat for his cabinet and caucus members (and they all know it). Harper has also lead the two longest surviving minority governments in Canadian history.

In short, I don't give much weight to people who claim that Harper is a dictatorial, selfish, autocrat. First, the claims entirely miss the point about politicians. And second, Harper in practice gets along with people.

----

Last point. I'm probably going to vote Liberal today too. My current MP is BQ but that obviously will change tonight. The NDP candidate is one of those wacky ones and I would never vote for Jack!™ anyway. The Conservative has zero chance of winning so I'll probably vote Liberal. Fortunately, the Liberal candidate is a sensible person who will likely lose.

The other night, I was walking around in part of my riding and I realized that there were far fewer Bloc signs on balconies than in past elections. It is telling that NDP signs have not replaced the Bloc signs.

If Canada were to have two federal parties then you can be certain that both would put forward leaders very close to the centre or face rejection in elections. In both parties, the extremist wings would exist to keep the base happy but they wouldn't have much influence. By and large, and depending on voting rules, that's how it works elsewhere.

But we are far, far from that in Canada. To start with, the Bloc may be down in this election but it would be foolish to believe that a Bloc-like party will disappear easily. Canada is still a country of regions.

A long time ago, the federal Liberal Party was adept at brokering regional interests. The only federal party at present with sufficient depth to do this is the Conservatives but their connection in Quebec is tenuous and in urban English Canada almost non-existent.

I don't see an easy resurrection of the federal Liberals and the NDP as currently constituted has all the makings of a regional broker disaster.

[Ottawavalleyboy]

The states have two parties was Bush close to the centre? People need to stop deluding themselves about who and what the current conservatives are. Guys like Poilievre and Baird would never have been given the time of day with the old PCs and with good reason. Anyone questioning Harpers economics is missing the main problem here, its the environment that he has created through muzzling the majority of his mps and those that do have a voice in the public are an embarassment. Our parliament has become a dictatorship to some degree in the way he runs his own party. That is not the way our parliament was built to run. He certainly wasnt the source of this style of leadership, in my opinion Chretien terrible for it. The lack of true diplomacy and the disregard for parliamentary procedure, the my way or the highway attitude is not how this is supposed to work. I want the pcs back not the reformers wearing blue coats.