ninjandrew Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Good thing that a majority of Albertans are fiercely patriotic to Canada. I'm glad somebody here knows what they're talking about regarding the separatist attitude in Alberta. It's virtually non-existent. Any statement along the lines of "Albertans are whiners" is outlandishly exaggerated. Quote "Everything in moderation, including moderation." -- Socrates
RNG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Uh....Nope Tax rates are the same dude! But, if there wasn't the equalization payment drain from the fed, they could lower the tax rates for everyone. The net result is that yes, the Quebecer who makes the same as me pays the same as me, but they take some money out of that pot and give it to him (indirectly, of course). The net result, I am paying him. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
RNG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 What? No. Provinces set their own tax rates. Alberta has a flat 10% tax above a certain tax free amount (amongst the lowest rates in Canada for earners of any income). Equalization comes only from federal taxes, and is given to provinces who do not meet a certain arithmetic average in terms of fiscal capacity. At current, those provinces are, from west to east: Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Nova Scotia. The problem some Albertans (and Ontarians) have with the current system is that they contribute more in federal taxes than they get back in federal services. As a have province, Alberta gets less from the Canada Health Transfer and no Equalization. Ontario, as a have not province, still pays out billions more than it receives. It's the fed portion I am referring to, of course. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
yarg Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 What? No. Provinces set their own tax rates. Alberta has a flat 10% tax above a certain tax free amount (amongst the lowest rates in Canada for earners of any income). Equalization comes only from federal taxes, and is given to provinces who do not meet a certain arithmetic average in terms of fiscal capacity. At current, those provinces are, from west to east: Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Nova Scotia. The problem some Albertans (and Ontarians) have with the current system is that they contribute more in federal taxes than they get back in federal services. As a have province, Alberta gets less from the Canada Health Transfer and no Equalization. Ontario, as a have not province, still pays out billions more than it receives. Ahh..So Alberta could maybe have lower tax rates if they weren't subsidizing other parts of the country, that is sort of the point. Quote
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 It's the fed portion I am referring to, of course. okay...but then the have not provinces would have to raise taxes further. Alberta's wealth is by virtue of geography. Alberta is in Canada. Equalization ensures that all Canadians benefit from the wealth of the provinces. Quote
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Ahh..So Alberta could maybe have lower tax rates if they weren't subsidizing other parts of the country, that is sort of the point. Alberta already has some of the lowest tax rates. Alberta is part of a federation, and that comes with certain obligations. As Gilles Duceppe loves to say, "If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor." Alberta has benefitted immensely from being in Canada. In return, Canada benefits from Alberta. Edited April 30, 2011 by Smallc Quote
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I'm glad to hear that. From internet forums, it's sometimes hard to tell. How come it doesn't bother you that Quebecers are Quebecers first and Canadians a very distant second - if at all? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Yes, but if he didn't have to have the Alberta government giving a whole bunch of their money to Quebec and the Maritimes, he could be paying a whole lot less. Or all that money could be spent within Alberta on really top rate social services. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 You're misinformed. That doesn't happen. Of course it does. Do you know nothing about how equalization works? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
wyly Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Alberta already has some of the lowest tax rates. Alberta is part of a federation, and that comes with certain obligations. As Gilles Duceppe loves to say, "If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor." Alberta has benefitted immensely from being in Canada. In return, Canada benefits from Alberta. I hate to say it because I hate taxes too but our taxes in alberta are too low, the government strains to pay for all the services people demand on the revenue taken in...there has been talk of introducing a PST but the conservatives are too terrified of the public to do so... Edited April 30, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Uh....Nope Tax rates are the same dude! This is a silly argument over technical word usage. The point is Alberta pays the feds ten bucks. Ontario pays the feds ten bucks. Quebec pays the feds ten bucks. Then the feds spend fifteen bucks in Quebec, eight bucks in Ontario, and five bucks in Alberta. The other two bucks being spent on administration of course. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I hate to say it because I hate taxes too but our taxes in alberta are too low, the government strains to pay for all the services people demand on the revenue taken in... That's because Alberta has the second largest government in the country. Alberta needs to do some serious cutting. Quote
wyly Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Or all that money could be spent within Alberta on really top rate social services. ya but we're one country or we are not...because alberta got lucky with geology doesn't mean the oil belongs only to albertans... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Scotty Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 okay...but then the have not provinces would have to raise taxes further. Alberta's wealth is by virtue of geography. Alberta is in Canada. Equalization ensures that all Canadians benefit from the wealth of the provinces. Quebec has the same natural wealth as Alberta, perhaps more. The reason they are a have-not province is their incompetent socialist governments, their laid back, casual workers, their corrupt business practices, and their interminable nationalist linguistic stupidity. Empty the province of Quebecers and move in the same number of people from Ontario and points west and Quebec would be a Have province overnight. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 ya but we're one country or we are not...because alberta got lucky with geology doesn't mean the oil belongs only to albertans... That's exactly right. Saskatchewan and Newfoundland are now in the same situation because the technology now exists to drill there. Manitoba is becoming more accessible to oil drilling and mining all of the time because of technology changes. Quebec is just getting to where it can access it's natural gas and offshore oil wealth. Alberta got lucky in that it had easily accessible resources as well as natural tourist infrastructure that most other places could only dream of. All Canadians benefit from it. All provinces benefit from each other in one way or another. Quote
TimG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) ya but we're one country or we are not...because alberta got lucky with geology doesn't mean the oil belongs only to albertans...Actually it does. The BNA act gives the right to resource royalities to the provinces. Nobody else has any claim on it.If you question that then try suggesting that the rest of Canada should get cut of Quebec's hydro power or natural gas. I bet you would get a equally nasty response. Edited April 30, 2011 by TimG Quote
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Actually it does. The BNA act gives the right to resource royalities to the provinces. Nobody else has any claim on it. The Constitution Act, 1867, does that, yes. The Constitution Act, 1982, though, guarantees Equalization and outlines the spirit of the said program. Quote
Sandy MacNab Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 I'm glad somebody here knows what they're talking about regarding the separatist attitude in Alberta. It's virtually non-existent. Any statement along the lines of "Albertans are whiners" is outlandishly exaggerated. I hate to say it but, you don't know what you're taling about. I know many here in Southern Alberta who have talked about separation and would again should a pack of socialist parasites try to institute something similar to another NEP or do anything else to single out the P&NG industry for abuse. Just like Stelmach, some Redmontonians haven't a clue about Alberta's source of wealth. Quote
Sandy MacNab Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 ya but we're one country or we are not...because alberta got lucky with geology doesn't mean the oil belongs only to albertans... Natural resources belong to the provinces. Get your facts straight before turning your covetous eyes on Alberta's wealth. Quote
TimG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 guarantees Equalization and outlines the spirit of the said program.Equalization is a program funded by federal taxes. That means that a big chunk of what Ontario receives in equalization is actually paid by Ontario. Quote
Sandy MacNab Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 That's because Alberta has the second largest government in the country. Alberta needs to do some serious cutting. Now, that's a statement with which I agree 1000% Quote
wyly Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Natural resources belong to the provinces. Get your facts straight before turning your covetous eyes on Alberta's wealth. get your facts straight I am an albertan... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Equalization is a program funded by federal taxes. That means that a big chunk of what Ontario receives in equalization is actually paid by Ontario. Yes. And? It's about the fiscal capacity of the federal government, not the provincial economy. That's why when Ontario, Manitoba, and BC, with almost the same per capita GDP, have different status when it comes to being have and have not. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Alberta is part of a federation, and that comes with certain obligations. Does that apply to other provinces too? I'm wondering what dollar amount Alberta gets from the hydro Revenues of Manitoba or Quebec? You know, those accidents of geography that you think are wholly responsible for Albertas finanical success. They did pretty well for a pack of redneck, insular, racist fascist swine(using the MLW vernacular) long before oil hit $100+ per barrel, deficit free and on the way to debt free in the 90s when oil was $18 and sinking..... They were probably just lucky. Quote The government should do something.
kimmy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Actually it does. The BNA act gives the right to resource royalities to the provinces. Nobody else has any claim on it. If you question that then try suggesting that the rest of Canada should get cut of Quebec's hydro power or natural gas. I bet you would get a equally nasty response. The provinces have the resources for a reason. And if you recall that Sarnia was once Canada's petrochemical capital, you'll have a pretty good idea what that reason was. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
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