Layton/NDP open to reopening constitution with Quebec

[ToadBrother]

Not a bad start, but I'd suggest Jack start not with reform, but simply ensuring that every Canadian has a vote that counts. By that I mean adding the missing Commons seats that BC, Alberta and Ontario should be getting so that they are represented with the same number of seats - relative to population- enjoyed by the other provinces. As an alternative, He could also take away Commons seats, particularly from Quebec and the Maritimes, in his efforts to right basic electoral injustice in our country.

Should be a simple thing for a man with Laytons advanced sense of social justice and fairness.

And would probably end in a no confidence vote.

[ToadBrother]

Great!! To have meaningful reforms, the Constitution needs to be amended.

Someone with the cajones to actually do their job in Ottawa??? God forbid that someone would attempt such a thing!! Talking to the Provinces to improve Canada??? Better to bury one's head in the sand?? Good for Jack!

There is a reason everyone has taken a status quo approach to the Constitution for the last couple of decades. It's because the last time it was tried, it nearly blew the country to pieces. Cajones is one thing, wantonly seeking change without consideration of the ramifications, that's not a matter of bravery, it's a matter of incomprehensible stupidity.

[ToadBrother]

No.

Emotional reactions are a left wing trait. Conservatives are logical and sensible. When a single man runs a party, and has hundreds.. or even thousands of promises he's been cooking up over the years, he simply cannot prioritize all of them when he has to be an acting Prime Minister. Expect him to be out of country most of the time and leaving his duties to his wife while his pot head NDP MP's run rampant and ruin the country.

This isn't fear, it's logic. Something the left don't have.

That's the most moronic pile of bull I've ever read. That's such a false and partisan statement it's a wonder your pants just don't spontaneously ignite.

[fellowtraveller]

And would probably end in a no confidence vote.

I find it fascinating how you switch back and forth between breathlessly trumpeting about the primacy of Parliament and procedures and the sanctity of our sacred institutons, then worrying about the results of those same things when they may not serve the ends of your political pals.

No comment on the effective disenfranchisement of entire regions of Canada?

Just curious, though not at all surprised.

Let us not speak then of the situation of seat distribution in the Senate.....

[bud]

NDP is not prepared to take government.

says who? harper and iggy?

did you have a chance to look at the costs involved in his platform?

[ToadBrother]

I find it fascinating how you switch back and forth between breathlessly trumpeting about the primacy of Parliament and procedures and the sanctity of our sacred institutons, then worrying about the results of those same things when they may not serve the ends of your political pals.

No comment on the effective disenfranchisement of entire regions of Canada?

Just curious, though not at all surprised.

Let us not speak then of the situation of seat distribution in the Senate.....

Could we start with who you think my "political pals" are?

[cybercoma]

wantonly seeking change without consideration of the ramifications, that's not a matter of bravery, it's a matter of incomprehensible stupidity.

Good thing that's not what he proposed.

[g_bambino]

Good thing that's not what he proposed.

It's hard to say, given that he didn't propose anything except that the constitution needs to be amended.

[ToadBrother]

It's hard to say, given that he didn't propose anything except that the constitution needs to be amended.

No kidding. The only thing I've heard Jack Layton say about constitutional reform is that he wants to get rid of the Senate.

[The_Squid]

There is a reason everyone has taken a status quo approach to the Constitution for the last couple of decades.

Because the politicians have been cowards. More interested in their status quo and power than actually trying to improve the country.

It's because the last time it was tried, it nearly blew the country to pieces.

How so?

Cajones is one thing, wantonly seeking change without consideration of the ramifications, that's not a matter of bravery, it's a matter of incomprehensible stupidity.

It's certainly more cajones on Layton's part than any of the other party leaders.

[PIK]

Emotional reactions are a left wing trait? I'm sorry, I guess I missed all of the social conservatives who have been using "logic" and "reason" to oppose same-sex marriage... not fear that their marriages would dissolve or fear of God's wrath.

Why do you think jack is doing so well, everyone knows he can't come thru ,but he is nicer then the other 2, jack is not angry, jack is the guy I want to have a beer with, I don't like harper's blu eyes, all emotion, just like the emotion the young left showed when they went nuts in TO during the G8/G20, ALL EMOTION.

[ToadBrother]

How so?

Um, heard of Meech Lake, Charlottetown and the 1995 sovereignty referendum in Quebec?

How old are you?

[g_bambino]

It's certainly more cajones on Layton's part than any of the other party leaders.

I think his point is cajones alone aren't enough to guarantee wise, purposeful constitutional changes. One can have ample cajones and easily make a right mess of things.

[The_Squid]

Um, heard of Meech Lake, Charlottetown and the 1995 sovereignty referendum in Quebec?

How old are you?

Plenty old enough to know about all of the above. It was a poor attempt to appease Quebec that other parts of the country found offensive.

Your rhetoric about "tearing the country to pieces" is completely overblown.

Any group has a right to self-determination. I have no issues with the Quebecois attempting to do so by non-violent, political means.

So a statement like "blowing the country to pieces" is just a bunch of empty rhetoric. No one will die... Some borders might be re-drawn... We won't become a 3rd world country.... some money may exchange hands and in the end people in Canada will live their lives the same as ever.

I applaud Layton and his stance on political reforms in Canada.

[The_Squid]

I think his point is cajones alone aren't enough to guarantee wise, purposeful constitutional changes. One can have ample cajones and easily make a right mess of things.

And so we have had politicians who haven't even bothered to try.... just keep the lousy status quo because changing it is "too hard" .... grow a pair!!

[wyly]

Let's get one thing straight here.

1) Jack is not going to even going to begin looking at getting Quebec into the Constitution until he addresses more pressing concerns first (doctors and GIS)

why not a government should be able to tackle more than one issue at a time...

2) When the Constitution is opened, he already remarked that it would not be so until he's relatively certain that it will be successful in getting Quebec's signature

which is sensible, first engage quebec to see if there is a workable compromise then take it to the other provinces and get their feedback...opening a serious negotiation with all the premiers present only to have it crash and burn would be the worst possible outcome...

[wyly]

So a statement like "blowing the country to pieces" is just a bunch of empty rhetoric. No one will die... Some borders might be re-drawn... We won't become a 3rd world country.... some money may exchange hands and in the end people in Canada will live their lives the same as ever.

I applaud Layton and his stance on political reforms in Canada.

absolutely, no one will die over this, this is how civilized democratic people settle issues...

[PIK]

Plenty old enough to know about all of the above. It was a poor attempt to appease Quebec that other parts of the country found offensive.

Your rhetoric about "tearing the country to pieces" is completely overblown.

Any group has a right to self-determination. I have no issues with the Quebecois attempting to do so by non-violent, political means.

So a statement like "blowing the country to pieces" is just a bunch of empty rhetoric. No one will die... Some borders might be re-drawn... We won't become a 3rd world country.... some money may exchange hands and in the end people in Canada will live their lives the same as ever.

I applaud Layton and his stance on political reforms in Canada.

My god what are you smoking out there?

[bud]

No.

Emotional reactions are a left wing trait. Conservatives are logical and sensible.

heh.

do you have any non-emotional thoughts on the following:

- $50 million of taxpayer's money going to a conservative riding under the guise of G8 spending

- the F35's already mind boggling price tag jumping from $75 million to $150 million per plane

[g_bambino]

just keep the lousy status quo because changing it is "too hard"

Perhaps that's the way some people feel, but it's certainly not what ToadBrother or I said.

[+]

Edited April 26, 2011 by g_bambino

[The_Squid]

My god what are you smoking out there?

Apparently, you disagree with something in my post but are either unwilling or unable to coherently express it.

You disagree that people have the right to self determination?

You disagree that the Meech Lake accord was seen by English Canada as trying to appease Quebec?

What is it? Spit it out...

[Benz]

It does if the province is not to be a colony of Canada. But, the point is moot; Quebec did put "its signature" on the constitution, in 1867, and never erased it since. This irrational myth that Quebec didn't agree to the constitution stems out of the other myth about Canada getting a new constitution in 1982 and is further fuelled and then used by Quebec separatists and sovereigntists for their own benefit. Canadians' general familiarity with their own history is appaling and that, at times, has political consequences.

You are the best reason for Québec to leave.

Plenty old enough to know about all of the above. It was a poor attempt to appease Quebec that other parts of the country found offensive.

Your rhetoric about "tearing the country to pieces" is completely overblown.

Any group has a right to self-determination. I have no issues with the Quebecois attempting to do so by non-violent, political means.

So a statement like "blowing the country to pieces" is just a bunch of empty rhetoric. No one will die... Some borders might be re-drawn... We won't become a 3rd world country.... some money may exchange hands and in the end people in Canada will live their lives the same as ever.

I applaud Layton and his stance on political reforms in Canada.

You are the best reason for Québec to reconsider leaving.

Layton did not go far enough. When the conditions are met... yeah right! They never will because TROC is satisfied with the current system. It's not broke, don't fix it. Only Québec consideres it broken. So Layton is saying it won't come from him. Not enough for me. I want someone with balls.

[mikedavid00]

That's the most moronic pile of bull I've ever read. That's such a false and partisan statement it's a wonder your pants just don't spontaneously ignite.

Who are on the streets protesting over a silly G8 summit? The right?

Who are the ones afraid the sky is going to fall over carbon emissions? The right?

Who are the ones ordering you to wear a helmet so you don't hurt yourself? The right?

No no no. The LEFT are the ones getting pissed and emotional over everything. Conservatives just want LOW TAXES, NO NEW IDEAS, AND TO BE LEFT ALONE.

[g_bambino]

You are the best reason for Québec to leave.

I know. Historical accuracy always irritates les souverainetistes.

[RNG]

What is wrong with admitting that no matter what "English Canada" does, it won't be enough for Quebec, and just let them go?