After Harper & Tories, Elections Canada Takes On Twitter

[August1991]

In Canada, a tweet is worth $25,000. Or, at least it is if you're tweeting on election night, when posting the results of the election before polls have closed is illegal and could land you in jail for five years.

The ban on broadcasting election results, which dates back to 1938, is found in section 329 of the Canada Elections Act...

"We're not blind to the fact that social media has taken on its own dimension, especially among youth," said John Enright, a spokesperson for Elections Canada, the agency responsible for conducting elections. "As it stands now, 329 is still on the books. People should act in consequence to 329 and the possible repercussions."

Huffington Post

I once thought that the bureaucrats at Elections Canada had an agenda; now I think that they're just stubborn, tone deaf, bureaucratic thick.

They want to control, and line everything up neatly in a row.

I loved that line: "We're not blind but... "

Edited April 24, 2011 by August1991

[Molly]

Huffington Post

I once thought that the bureaucrats at Elections Canada had an agenda; now I think that they're just stubborn, tone deaf, bureaucratic thick.

They want to control, and line everything up neatly in a row.

I loved that line: "We're not blind but... "

You mean, "those legistlators". EC has little choice but to follow the law.

[Topaz]

I agree Election Canada. This election needs to be fair and with the different time changes, voters out west would have an advantage over the voters in the east, if results started to be posted online. Surely, voters can't have a problem with this thinking? No one should know until the polls close in the west.

[msj]

Well, Twitter's been around since March, 2006 so it's not like the CPC couldn't have found support from one of the other parties to change the legislation.

Given how well some in the CPC and Mr. Jack #fail Layton use twitter one would expect that they would come together and change the rules in the next Parliament.

[icman]

Well, Twitter's been around since March, 2006 so it's not like the CPC couldn't have found support from one of the other parties to change the legislation.

Given how well some in the CPC and Mr. Jack #fail Layton use twitter one would expect that they would come together and change the rules in the next Parliament.

What's the issue here? EC is not unilaterally banning the use of Twitter by all Canadians on election night. They are reminding people that broadcasting election results prior to polls closing is illegal, and will be prosecuted, independent of how the results are broadcast (including Twitter).

I don't think the fact that media change over time changes the principles behind the law.

[kimmy]

What's the issue here? EC is not unilaterally banning the use of Twitter by all Canadians on election night. They are reminding people that broadcasting election results prior to polls closing is illegal, and will be prosecuted, independent of how the results are broadcast (including Twitter).

I don't think the fact that media change over time changes the principles behind the law.

The only answer to this issue is to have all polls close simultaneously. 10:30 or 11 in Newfoundland, 6 or 6:30 in BC.

I can't imagine why this would possibly be an obstacle to anyone on either coast. If some tea-granny in Newfoundland has to stay up past her bedtime to find out who won the election, tough cookies.

-k

[bloodyminded]

The only answer to this issue is to have all polls close simultaneously. 10:30 or 11 in Newfoundland, 6 or 6:30 in BC.

I can't imagine why this would possibly be an obstacle to anyone on either coast. -k

I don't see why not, either.

Does anyone have any answer? As to why not?

[icman]

I don't see why not, either.

Does anyone have any answer? As to why not?

Uh, the fact that people in BC deserve more time in their normal day to get to the polls. That's all. Fine, then. Keep the polls open across Canada until 9:00 Pacific. But then ROs in Newfoundland are going to be complaining that they have to work until 2:00 am. (1:30, then a half hour for counting and reporting.)

This is the trouble we face in a country that spans 5 time zones.

I don't see a problem with the law. The only people at election poll after they close are ROs and their volunteer staff, and scrutineers. The RO and their staff can't report on election results except through Elections Canada, and scrutineers should be able to keep their yaps shut about the results.

Edited April 25, 2011 by icman

[Smallc]

I don't see why not, either.

Does anyone have any answer? As to why not?

I don't know. Quebec west pretty much ends at the same time (I think BC is off by half an hour), but the Newfoundland and Atlantic time zones are before everyone else.

[bloodyminded]

Uh, the fact that people in BC deserve more time in their normal day to get to the polls. That's all. Fine, then. Keep the polls open across Canada until 9:00 Pacific. But then ROs in Newfoundland are going to be complaining that they have to work until 2:00 am. (1:30, then a half hour for counting and reporting.)

Sure, fair enough. But since there are obviously some major issues no matter how we perform the time-zone issue, some later nights for Newfoundlanders and us New Brunswickers seems relatively trivial.

I don't see a problem with the law. The only people at election poll after they close are ROs and their volunteer staff, and scrutineers. The RO and their staff can't report on election results except through Elections Canada, and scrutineers should be able to keep their yaps shut about the results.

Yes, good point.

[bloodyminded]

I don't know. Quebec west pretty much ends at the same time (I think BC is off by half an hour), but the Newfoundland and Atlantic time zones are before everyone else.

Yeah. But I think Kimmy's point was that we could have a real-time simultaneous voting, rather than a "same-time" voting, if you see what I mean. It doesn't sound to me like an awful injustice if one poll is from eight a.m till eight p.m, and another is from ten am. till ten p.m, or what have you. Instead of voting at the same clock time, we could literally vote at the same time.

[Smallc]

Yeah. But I think Kimmy's point was that we could have a real-time simultaneous voting, rather than a "same-time" voting, if you see what I mean. It doesn't sound to me like an awful injustice if one poll is from eight a.m till eight p.m, and another is from ten am. till ten p.m, or what have you. Instead of voting at the same clock time, we could literally vote at the same time.

No, that's what I'm saying. Most of the country is at the same time on voting day. The polls are staggered that way. Just the atlantic zones are different (I think they close 2 hours early).

Most of Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta all vote at the same time. BC is a half hour off.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Smallc

[bloodyminded]

No, that's what I'm saying. Most of the country is at the same time on voting day. The polls are staggered that way. Just the atlantic zones are different (I think they close 2 hours early).

Most of Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta all vote at the same time. BC is a half hour off.

Ah, I gotcha.

[Smallc]

Ah, I gotcha.

Here are the times:

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/federalelections/f/votinghoursfed.htm

[kimmy]

Uh, the fact that people in BC deserve more time in their normal day to get to the polls. That's all. Fine, then. Keep the polls open across Canada until 9:00 Pacific. But then ROs in Newfoundland are going to be complaining that they have to work until 2:00 am. (1:30, then a half hour for counting and reporting.)

Since polls in BC close at 7pm local time already, that's not true. I'm suggesting that BC polls close a half hour earlier than they do right now. That's not an undue hardship, particularly given that they open early enough that voting before work is an option, and given that people who don't like either option can still use advance polls.

This is the trouble we face in a country that spans 5 time zones.

I don't see a problem with the law. The only people at election poll after they close are ROs and their volunteer staff, and scrutineers. The RO and their staff can't report on election results except through Elections Canada, and scrutineers should be able to keep their yaps shut about the results.

Yeah, withholding local results until polls close in the rest of the country doesn't sound like an unreasonable solution either.

-k

[bloodyminded]

Here are the times:

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/federalelections/f/votinghoursfed.htm

Yeah, there it is. That doesn't look bad at all.

[Smallc]

Yeah, there it is. That doesn't look bad at all.

It's just the atlantic times.

[cybercoma]

The only answer to this issue is to have all polls close simultaneously. 10:30 or 11 in Newfoundland, 6 or 6:30 in BC.

I can't imagine why this would possibly be an obstacle to anyone on either coast. If some tea-granny in Newfoundland has to stay up past her bedtime to find out who won the election, tough cookies.

-k

I'm not sure about the tea granny in St. John's, but I would sure hate to be the Vancouverite that had to rush to the polls before 6pm to get my vote in. The polls need to be open for the exact same amount of time, right? They're currently open for 12 hours (not including advanced polling). Newfoundland would be voting from 10:30am to 10:30pm, while BC would be voting from 6:00am to 6:00pm. It works and I think they should do it, but people on either coast really get the short straw here.

[cybercoma]

Here are the times:

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/federalelections/f/votinghoursfed.htm

So they already do it... more or less. That seems like a reasonable compromise. They all close within an hour or so.

[kimmy]

So they already do it... more or less. That seems like a reasonable compromise. They all close within an hour or so.

An hour is plenty of time for results to hit the internet.

If the principle that results from one part of the country should not influence voters elsewhere actually matters, then "an hour isn't much" isn't good enough.

If Elections Canada can keep Maritime results under their hats for a while until polls close elsewhere, that would be the ideal situation. If that's not allowed for some reason, then close the polls at the same time.

-k

[August1991]

I don't see why not, either.

Does anyone have any answer? As to why not?

I think they changed the polling hours in 2006 so that there was a smaller difference. There are 4 1/2 hours difference between Nfld and BC or 5 time zones.

This has been reduced to 3 hours now for voting purposes. There are three different poll closing times.

I don't see why we should forbid people in BC from knowing what the results further east are. Who cares?

Following the same logic, we should forbid publishing of polls during an election campaign.

Incidentally, the Supreme Court ruled on this 2007:

The Supreme Court of Canada has upheld a legal ban on reporting early vote results on federal election nights in regions of the country where the polls are still open.

In a 5-4 decision, the top court ruled the section of the Canada Elections Act that bans the publication of voting results until all federal polls close on election night does not violate the Charter of Rights.

CBC

IMV, this is a crappy interpretation of a crappy regulation - moreover, it appears that the Supreme Court merely rejected a Charter challenge. What a mess.

[cybercoma]

As a Maritimer now, I fully plan on breaking Elections Canada's rules by posting the results right here on the forum and having Charles Anthony ban me and delete my posts.

[August1991]

I don't see a problem with the law. The only people at election poll after they close are ROs and their volunteer staff, and scrutineers. The RO and their staff can't report on election results except through Elections Canada, and scrutineers should be able to keep their yaps shut about the results.

That's an interesting suggestion. Nfld and the Maritimes polls could close as now but Elections Canada would put an embargo on the results until the polls closed in Ontario/Quebec/Man/Sask/Alta - and they all close at the same time.

I don't know. Quebec west pretty much ends at the same time (I think BC is off by half an hour), but the Newfoundland and Atlantic time zones are before everyone else.

Correct. So BC would just have to vote betwen 6 am and 6 pm.

OTOH, the results always take about an hour to come in so if BC closes later, it;s not as if anyone would know what had happened in the East.

An hour is plenty of time for results to hit the internet.

It takes more than an hour between poll closing and more than a few polling station results. Edited April 25, 2011 by August1991