NDP to form offical opposition.

[TimG]

This is hardly a scientific sample but as a minimum, I have come away with the conclusion that some people really, really hate Harper. I reckon that these people generally live in urban areas.

It is the viceral hatred that I find hard to deal with. Most people on the right will dislike politicies like Layton and Iggy but they don't hate him the way people on the left hate Harper.

[Evening Star]

Have you paid any attention at all to how the popular American right likes to talk about Obama?

[TimG]

Have you paid any attention at all to how the popular American right likes to talk about Obama?

It is the same. But we do not see that in Canada. The hatred is definitely one sided here.

[Mr.Canada]

Have you paid any attention at all to how the popular American right likes to talk about Obama?

Obama is raising the debt in the states by $15 Trillion a year. That is serious. People in Canada are complaining about $50 Billion. Look at what Obama is doing, it's far far worse. But since he's a left winger he gets a pass I guess.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[punked]

Obama is raising the debt in the states by $15 Trillion a year. That is serious. People in Canada are complaining about $50 Billion. Look at what Obama is doing, it's far far worse. But since he's a left winger he gets a pass I guess.

You believe the US deficit is 15 Trillion a year? SERIOUSLY????

[Smallc]

It is the same. But we do not see that in Canada. The hatred is definitely one sided here.

I know people on other message boards who have a visceral hatred for Layton.

[Mr.Canada]

You believe the US deficit is 15 Trillion a year? SERIOUSLY????

The US budget is $15 trillion The debt is $5 Trillion+ per year. $5 Trillion and in Canada people cry about $50 Billion. Again why is Obama getting a free pass on his mismanagement? Is it because he's a democrat? Would a republican get such an easy ride?

[punked]

The US budget is $15 trillion The debt is $5 Trillion+ per year. $5 Trillion and in Canada people cry about $50 Billion. Again why is Obama getting a free pass on his mismanagement? Is it because he's a democrat? Would a republican get such an easy ride?

You think the deficit is 5 Trillion a year??? Seriously????

[Evening Star]

It is the same. But we do not see that in Canada. The hatred is definitely one sided here.

The same?? What kind of attacks on Harper do you see that are comparable to the things Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or birthers come up with about Obama?

Tbh, I don't even really know what you're referring to, since the examples seem to all be rather anecdotal. (I could relate an anecdote about someone I knew who recoiled in disgust and denounced Jack Layton as an anti-Semite as soon as his name came up. And the CPC attack ads on Ignatieff themselves seem to be personal attacks.) In general, people find themselves under attack more often when they are actually in power. (Look for things that were written about Bob Rae when he was premier or look at the kind of blinding hatred many on the right still harbour for Pierre Trudeau, 27 years after he left office and a decade after his death.)

[TimG]

The same?? What kind of attacks on Harper do you see that are comparable to the things Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or birthers come up with about Obama?

Try reading a few posts at rabble.ca. They are typical of the hatefest that the left has going on. We don't have the cable news shows here.

[Mr.Canada]

You think the deficit is 5 Trillion a year??? Seriously????

Whatever it is it's more then Canada's entire GDP of $1.5 Trillion. That's significant. And people in Canada cry about $50 Billion.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[punked]

Whatever it is it's more then Canada's entire GDP of $1.5 Trillion. That's significant. And people in Canada cry about $50 Billion.

Its around 1.5 + or - 200 billion dollars.

[Mr.Canada]

Its around 1.5 + or - 200 billion dollars.

Ok so why is Obama getting a free ride on his mismanagement? Is it because he's a far left Democrat.

The total US debt is $15 Trillion that debt is owned by China for the most part which is dangerous. Is Obama purposely trying to sell out the US to the Communists?

Edited April 24, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[August1991]

Have you paid any attention at all to how the popular American right likes to talk about Obama?

And how did the American Left describe Bushitler?

The one US Democratic president who got a raw deal (IMV) was Bill Clinton - and I think that it was because of the prominence of his wife. (Whitewater turned into Monica Lewinsky... )

On the Right, you can start with Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan through to Bush Jnr.

I would even carry this further afield. I disagree with LePen (father and daughter) but both have been vilified in ways that no leftist (say, Marchais) ever was.

----

We have an ongoing thread about abortion in this forum now. It was started, in the midst of an election, as a biased poll to show that Harper would remove a woman's right to choose.

Whatever one thinks of Harper, this tactic or even abortion, what I find surprising is that several days later, the thread topic still has posters. In Canada's MSM, abortion is rarely discussed.

It is in this sense that the Left shuts down debate. And it is also in this sense that I think Canada's MSM is Leftist. There are a range of issues that for some reason, no one discusses. And yet, a small Internet forum such as this one shows that people want to talk about them.

Edited April 24, 2011 by August1991

[Evening Star]

Try reading a few posts at rabble.ca.

Ever tried reading Free Dominion?

[TimG]

Ever tried reading Free Dominion?

Here are couple examples of Harper hatefests that are in the MSM:

http://www.amazon.ca/Harperland-Politics-Control-Lawrence-Martin/dp/067006517X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

http://www.amazon.ca/Armageddon-Factor-Christian-Nationalism-Canada/dp/0307356469/ref=pd_sim_b_2

[Evening Star]

And how did the American Left describe Bushitler?

I didn't say that the 'left' (scare quotes especially necessary when talking about mainstream Democrats) never demonizes right-wing leaders. I just disagreed that the left does this more than the right

[August1991]

... or look at the kind of blinding hatred many on the right still harbour for Pierre Trudeau, 27 years after he left office and a decade after his death.)

In all honesty, the only comparable situation to the Left's propensity to shut down debate is among federalists. In Ottawa, there is no talk of an independent Quebec among federal civil servants.

As to hatred, the sovereigntist hatred for Trudeau was arguably stronger than any current hatred of Harper among Leftists. I recall travelling to Alberta with a Quebec delegation and aside from sneers or minor jokes, the general attitude among Right wing Albertans was "live and let live".

It is by such measures that I consider civilized debate.

Edited April 24, 2011 by August1991

[dre]

It is the same. But we do not see that in Canada. The hatred is definitely one sided here.

[bloodyminded]

I gave an example above in this very thread where the Left tends to shut down debate by declaring than an opponent is unbalanced or unreasonable.

Exactly so, you gave an example.

I offer a counter-example, named Mr. Canada.

In general, this means playing the man not the ball. And this may explain why the Left is often ineffective in political debates.

The Lefties here on MLW certainly seem to hold their own. An occasional equal-and-opposite of Mr. Canada--or Lictor--doesn't change that fact.

So why is everyone decrying how Harper is a liar and how teh Conservatives have sunk to a new low with their various attack ads?

"Everyone" isn't; just as "everyone" isn't asserting that the NDP or Liberals are "disgusting." Just a few people are.

The ostensible reason for this election is that the opposition parties accused the government of being in contempt of parliament.

And? If the Conservatives had an oppostion conservative party uninterested in an alliance, you think they wouldn't be hoping to bring the government down and replace them? "Left" has roughly zero to do with it.

Edited April 24, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Mr.Canada]

And? If the Conservatives had an oppostion conservative party uninterested in an alliance, you think they wouldn't be hoping to bring the government down and replace them? "Left" has roughly zero to do with it.

The problem comes in when a government steals power through the back door. Another problem is when the same group who wishes to seize power through a bloodless coup is in bed with the separatists who will be hold the balance of power in this new gov't agreement between the 3 parties.

[Smallc]

The problem comes in when a government steals power through the back door. Another problem is when the same group who wishes to seize power through a bloodless coup is in bed with the separatists who will be hold the balance of power in this new gov't agreement between the 3 parties.

Oh my, that sounds terrible.

[Tilter]

You believe the US deficit is 15 Trillion a year? SERIOUSLY????

I heard that on the Sunnews network today. I think the # 5 trillion is higher than I heard . I believe the number was "over 4 Trillion.

If you think O'bamma is getting a free run on that you haven't been watching Cnn, Fox or ANY american news.

By the way, what kind of an Irish name IS O'Bamma// O'niel;? O"riely? O'Hara--- doesn't quite seem to fit.

[punked]

I heard that on the Sunnews network today. I think the # 5 trillion is higher than I heard . I believe the number was "over 4 Trillion.

If you think O'bamma is getting a free run on that you haven't been watching Cnn, Fox or ANY american news.

By the way, what kind of an Irish name IS O'Bamma// O'niel;? O"riely? O'Hara--- doesn't quite seem to fit.

If sun news said the US deficit is 4 Trillion dollars then they are the worst News network that ever existed.

[Scotty]

With Harper representing the right the words reasonable and balance are no longer part of the political lexicon.

Yeah, I mean, that guy has dragged the tories at least six, maybe seven millimeters off center! He's practically a Nazi! Agghhh!