Tories turning attacks toward Layton, NDP

[Bryan]

I don't see how the NDP can take support from the Tories - the two parties are on opposite sides of the spectrum. I can see the NDP taking votes from the Liberals, but not the Tories.

In the west, the vote swing is often CPC-NDP. The Liberals are not much of a factor in most ridings.

[Smallc]

Thanks. From your link, scroll down to chart #3. The F-35 is covered under "new equipment", but I suspect most of the cost that gives us the 15/29 billion figure, will come from the readiness portion of the chart. (Training, Maintence)

Yeah, I know. I'm only talking about the fact that the Afghan budget will be absorbed by no one.

[Mr.Canada]

The Tories have always attacked the NDP, always will and vice versa. That's politics. I don't see the big deal here.

[Guest Derek L]

It is my understanding that they expending the plan to offer more building of Ice breakers and other ships that will help defend the arctic not just the replacement that Harper has offered of old ships. It is an expansion on ship building.

Do you have source? Though I would welcome it, I find it hard to buy......the NDP is baulking at ~30 billion for fighters

It's expected, (based on current prices of modern warships) that the Navy's Destroyer/Frigate replacement alone will cost ~2.25 billion per ship x 15 replacements.....thats not including mainteince, training, weapons, fuel etc costed over 30 years.....like how the 29 billion figure does with the 65 JSF.

No I think the idea was because they are switching to a more defensive stance that they would go with a much cheaper 4th generation fighter like a new fleet of super hornets, or move to the next stage of air combat and move into UAVs.

The Aussies just purchased 24 Super Hornets as a stop gap (10 year lease) untill they recieve their entire JSF order.....the price for 24 Super Hornets: 6.6 billion

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australia-to-buy-24-super-hornets-as-interim-gapfiller-to-jsf-02898/

Kinda expensive for a plane that was designed in the 90s, and will start being retired buy the USN and RAAF in about ~2025.....the Americans are already starting to design it's replacement, the 6th generation.

As for UAVs, there currently isn't any in production or in a mature stage of design that will do all the jobs required of our airforce....plus they are not cheap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Taranis

So the NDP doesn't really have a plan?

[Guest Derek L]

Yeah, I know. I'm only talking about the fact that the Afghan budget will be absorbed by no one.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.....all government funding is a shell game of sorts

[Mr.Canada]

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.....all government funding is a shell game of sorts

We need to vote for the Tories so they can continue rebuilding Canadas economy. They're doing a great job, a really great job and they deserve our vote. Support your local Tory candidate Derek, make us proud.

[Guest Derek L]

We need to vote for the Tories so they can continue rebuilding Canadas economy. They're doing a great job, a really great job and they deserve our vote. Support your local Tory candidate Derek, make us proud.

Already did......I'm 100% Tory Blue.

That being said, I find most adds and talking points, from all parties (Tories included), to not be doing much in the way of informing the average voter on the real facts of any given issue. Thats politics I guess.

My point about the JSF/defence spending, is two fold. One, it shows that the NDP, like the Tories and Liberals, are made of the exact same moral fibre as everyone else and are not above telling fibs and constructing strawmen.

Also, I wanted to see (and learn) what the NDP's policy was on a given issue, sans the spin. I chose defence, since my impression of the NDP is that their stance leaves alot to be desired. Are they a one-trick pony? (Healthcare/ social welfare)

If one day, and I won't discount it, they formed a government, how would they respond to these other issues? That I think is a vaild point & question?

From what I've seen of Jack Layton, and NDPers in general, I don't think they're evil people or will destroy the country (maybe bankrupt us) and I do think they have values. Though I'd never vote for them, I'd like to learn abit more (know your enemy lol) and I wouldn't be heart broken if Jack ended up in Stornoway come May 3rd.

[cybercoma]

I don't see how the NDP can take support from the Tories - the two parties are on opposite sides of the spectrum. I can see the NDP taking votes from the Liberals, but not the Tories.

And that's why the Tories should not attack the NDP too much, because the NDP can never truly be a threat to a governing Tory government, but they can hurt the Liberals, who have been forming the government for much of the last century.

I voted Tory and I'm switching to the NDP.

Why did I vote Tory in the last couple elections?

The Liberal government was so full of corruption that I wanted to believe Harper, as a former Reformer, would clean up Parliament when he got into power. I was also of the opinion that lower taxes was necessary because we were getting screwed with federal surpluses, especially in EI.

So what changed?

Harper has one of the most secretive, closed governments in our history. Transparency is paramount and he has entirely dropped the ball. They did live up to their commitments of lowering taxes, but to what end? They're still spending like crazy. All they have done is spent the money in different areas that do not directly help the average Canadian. I thought losing the expenses of businesses would help with jobs and other things important to the average Joe. I was wrong about all of it. Realistically, taxes don't need to be cut. The only difference with the Conservatives is that they did cut taxes, but put us into debt before the financial "crisis" by spending as usual and in areas that have not directly helped me.

While the NDP wasn't even a party worth considering in the past, I've come to a point where I feel I have run out of options. So, I began giving the party serious consideration. I realized that I don't have Conservative values and that truly I believe in the NDP's agenda and their policies. I'm not a hardcore socialist that believes the state should be involved in everything, but neither is the NDP of today.

So, anyway, there's at least one Conservative supporter giving the NDP a fair shake this time around. Stephen Harper let me down.

[Evening Star]

It's been mentioned already but people don't necessarily vote according to a 'left-right' spectrum. In the 90s, for example, Reform was able to take many ridings that had formerly been held by the NDP.

I don't see how the NDP can take support from the Tories - the two parties are on opposite sides of the spectrum. I can see the NDP taking votes from the Liberals, but not the Tories.

And that's why the Tories should not attack the NDP too much, because the NDP can never truly be a threat to a governing Tory government, but they can hurt the Liberals, who have been forming the government for much of the last century.

[cybercoma]

What saved Canada during the economic "downturn" was the regulated banking industry. If Stephen Harper regulated the industry, then I could see patting him on the back for navigating us through it. I'm pretty sure he inherited that banking system though, so he doesn't deserve the credit.

[TimG]

What saved Canada during the economic "downturn" was the regulated banking industry.

Things that "saved" Canada:

1) Mortgages that have to be paid back even if they walk away from the house;

2) No mortgage interest deductability (encourage people to avoid paying off mortgage);

3) No activists demanding that banks make loans to people who can't afford it;

4) No third party mortgage brokers;

5) Conservative banking culture;

The regulation of banking was a secondary factor at most. Canadian banks could have gotten into the CDO market if they had wanted to.

Edited April 24, 2011 by TimG

[cybercoma]

So, Harper did those things?

[TimG]

So, Harper did those things?

No. But saying it was a question banking regulations is wrong (unless you count the rule that allows banks to collect left over mortgages even after they foreclosed as a banking regulation).

[cybercoma]

No.

So then he shouldn't get credit for steering us through the economic crisis. He didn't do anything that got us through it. What he did do, fiscally, was put us behind the 8-ball with debt before the recession even hit and continued to spend his way through the recession. Great. He gets credit for spending money while cutting revenues. Edited April 24, 2011 by cybercoma

[TimG]

So then he shouldn't get credit for steering us through the economic crisis.

He gets credit for not making it worse which something the libs/ndp likely would have done by spending even more. Edited April 24, 2011 by TimG

[cybercoma]

That would make for some great commercials.

Dear Canada,

Vote for me. I didn't make the recession worse.

Your friend,

Steve.

[Mr.Canada]

I'd enjoy to see some real ideas coming from the parties instead of these band aid like fixes. We honestly need some leaders with real vision with really big ideas and right now we don't have that leader with that sort of vision. Canada hasn't had that sort of leader for a very long time.

[RNG]

That would make for some great commercials.

Dear Canada,

Vote for me. I didn't make the recession worse.

Your friend,

Steve.

You mean that Jack could say "vote for me, my socialist policies made the recession worse, but I gave you a bunch of stuff you can't afford."?

[Evening Star]

Probably not, since he wasn't in power and couldn't have implemented any socialist policies?

[cybercoma]

That's all they have left. Making up stuff and blaming it on the NDP or claiming "this is what would have happened, even though it didn't."

[TimG]

That's all they have left. Making up stuff and blaming it on the NDP or claiming "this is what would have happened, even though it didn't."

If you want to claim that Harper deserves no credit for getting us through the recession you are claiming that:

1) Libs and NDP would have done better;

2) Government makes no difference:

If you saying 1) then you too are making stuff up to support your view....

[cybercoma]

If you want to claim that Harper deserves no credit for getting us through the recession you are claiming that:

1) Libs and NDP would have done better;

2) Government makes no difference:

If you saying 1) then you too are making stuff up to support your view....

Huh?

I'm not claiming the Libs and NDP would have done better nor am I claiming government makes no difference.

The government does make a difference, but it wasn't Harper's government that made the difference. He takes credit for the country not falling like others during the recession. The policies that got us through it were not his. I don't know enough about them to even tell you whose policies they were. Maybe they were a former Conservative Party... I don't know. What I do know is that it wasn't Harper's government, so I don't like the idea of him taking credit for it. It could have been anyone in power.

[Guest Derek L]

Things that "saved" Canada:

1) Mortgages that have to be paid back even if they walk away from the house;

2) No mortgage interest deductability (encourage people to avoid paying off mortgage);

3) No activists demanding that banks make loans to people who can't afford it;

4) No third party mortgage brokers;

5) Conservative banking culture;

The regulation of banking was a secondary factor at most. Canadian banks could have gotten into the CDO market if they had wanted to.

I would add to that list our commodities. In comparision to the other G-8 nations, the majority of our (non-subsidized and profitable) exports come from our natural resource sector. Well on the other hand, our manufacturing base suffered, just like everyone elses. This has little to do with Tory or Liberal governments.

With that said, I fear a Liberal and/or NDP government will bring in Cap-Trade, this will make PET's NEP look like a blip.......As for raising Corprate taxes, all that will do is be passed onto the consumer.....if they want that, why not just increase income tax rates?

I'd like to ask the NDPers here, to name a country/time period that experinced high rates of growth in the private sector (outside of wartime) that resulted in low unemployment and stable tax revenue? Without sounding crass, I've yet worked for a poor person, nor have I borrowed a signifcant amount money from a "cheque cashing store".

[cybercoma]

As for raising Corprate taxes, all that will do is be passed onto the consumer

This is not necessarily true because it depends entirely on flexibility.

[TimG]

The policies that got us through it were not his. I don't know enough about them to even tell you whose policies they were. Maybe they were a former Conservative Party... I don't know.

Which is why I said the most he did was avoid making it worse...