harper health care savior...

[cgarrett]

this last weekend i spent an hour attempting to console my 62 year old mother in the waiting area of emergency while she suffered horrifically from a broken leg without any pain medication! i could not wish such an experience on my worst enemies! five days with a broken leg and finally she can have routine surgery to repair it...

we are all getting older and the number of horror stories regarding our financially ignored health care system have risen.

but i am a little concerned about steven harpers new angel wings he has been advertising with respect to health care. when martin cut federal transfer payments to the provinces that everyone knew was paying for much of the health care services that the provinces were providing he said that it wasn't enough of a cut! its funny how he doesn't mention "scraping the canada health act" (his words) anymore? he has proposed a third of the money that the romonav report has suggested that is required to get health care back to what it should be? and yet he has portrayed himself as some kind of health care savior!

will the conservatives lead health care in the same direction as the liberals? slow starvation followed by privatization to the point where private health care is bigger than public with public health care finally being virtually phased out?

why not propose spending more on health care instead of aircraft carriers?!

[iamcanadian]

You make a good point about our aging population and its effects on health care. I however believe that the only true remedy to the situation is a 2 tier health system (I know this is a bad word) but its the only way to keep our universal health care system. Its time to let those people that can afford (and wish to pay for treatments out of pocket) be given the right to do so. Thereby, aleviating the public system for those not wanting to, or not able to afford private care.

Canadians already go to the U.S. for medical treatments and pay for it out of pocket. This money is then removed from our economy.

I believe its a matter of choice, freedom of choice as to where and how we get our medical coverage. and a much better approach than the ontario liberals have taken with there health premium.

[cgarrett]

as private industry gains share of the health reponsibility in the two-tier system, so will its strength to ensure that government does not compete with it or in any way act in a manner that may damage its profits! in fact, our public system would be open to legal challenge almost immediately under nafta if we were to allow private health care delivery. any attempt at enforcing public services for health care will be met with pressure from these institutions to resist such changes. the private industry will always be producing pressure to expand and in fact is the reason that our public system is a constant matter of debate today. certain party purses are flush with cash from such private interests.

what canadians want is equal access to health care. the introduction of a two-tiered system is not equal access.

[moon]

what canadians want is equal access to health care. the introduction of a two-tiered system is not equal access.

What some Canadians want.

I don't see the point in me going down to the states to see a Canadian doctor and pay him in American dollars when I could do that same thing here if he was allowed to practice privately in Canada.

I am not harming anyone or taking a service away from Canadians because unless he can have a private practice he will not be treating any Canadians up here anyways.

[caesar]

No thanks to American style private health care. No thanks to any Canadian doctor who prefers to practice in the USA. Greedy person who probably is running away from paying back his student loans.

Our health care system for health care can be fixed; We do not want to be like America where money is the only concern. Stop abusing the system; quit running to the doctors with your little coughs and colds or flu. Quit blaming the older generation and look at yourselves and how quick you run to the doctor to fix your little boo boos. We spoilt you bunch of whiners.

Doctors should stop over prescribing prescriptions.

[Reverend Blair]

You'd be proud of me Caesar...I only go to the doctor if I'm bleeding profusely.

Health care in Canada is in trouble. There are pressures from an aging and increasingly unfit (even the young) population, but the big pressure is coming from south of the border. Corporations want to grow, their shareholders demand it. We are a market of over 30 million aging and increasingly unfit (even the young). We look pretty lucrative to them.

Our governments, neo-conservative and neo-liberal, have been underfunding health care for a couple of decades now. The politicians have been shown to have at least some ties to health-care corporations in the US. I don't think the underfunding is just a coincidence.

[cgarrett]

exactly, reverend!

and there are many nations with a system just like our own that is working fine! lets just fund it like it should be funded.

as could be deciphered from my original post... i don't trust harper or martin to do what needs to be done here.

[iamcanadian]

The plain and simple fact of the matter is that there are not enough people in Canada to support our health system much longer.

As the population gets older, and the problem with obecity among youger people increases it is just going to compound the problem.

This is the same reason why our taxes are so high in comparison to other countries. 30 million people is quite a small number for such a large country.

[cgarrett]

how does the size of our country affect the delivery of health care??? i could see that people may have to travel farther but...

actually, luxembourg has only 400,000 people and it seems to be doing fine with publicly funded health care... as are many other countries in the world with smaller populations than our own.

[Goldie]

Here is a little something I sent to the Star. Instead of Re- writing it i pasted it here for you all.

To the editorial board,

The next time you or your family suffer some kind of infection or illness or trauma. Don't go to the clinic in the mall because it is private. Don't go to your doctors office because he owns it in partnership with the other doctors there. Instead you should go to the only publicly owned first entry health system, your emergency ward. I dare you to spend 8 ours waiting for anti-biotics and pain killers while your finger throbs from the cut you received at your Bar-B-Q. I mean you could go to your doctors office but it is private and because your idiots you would rather go to the public system and wait 8 hours.

This is fine for you but why continue to tell Canadians this is in their best interests? Why do you continue to fabricate that the Conservatives support a two-teir system when all they seem to be saying is the more clinics the better, whoever owns them? Can you not get this around your micro brains?

[iamcanadian]

400,000 people is not a very good comparison either. Thats less people than in Toronto. Logistically, they don't need as many hospital beds, and equipment as we do.

Therefore per capita they don't have to spend as much on there health care.

The size of the country does matter. Luxembourg is not much bigger than PEI. Once again they do not require the facilities per capita that we do.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Actually can any of you name a single nation with COMPLETELY free health care. Last time I remember most were starting to experiment with user fees, and different methods of improving health care.

Do all of you lefties believe that throwing money at health care will solve all of the problems in the world. It's like throwing money at a druggie hoping that his problem will go away.

[cgarrett]

actually they're not drug addicts... they're baby boomers!

'last time you remember' dosen't really cut it... state some facts.

[caesar]

Adding private health care and higher medicare premiums does not make Health care work better. BC has always had medicare premiums. Campbell raised these premiums; we do have sneaky private care to enable those desperate or wealthy to get quicker service. You pay for using the clinic not for the procedure. Seniors share for their prescriptions has gone way up for most. Despite this; waiting times have grown.

Doctors, nurses, and management got big raises; lab technicians, practical nurses , dieticians , laundry workers, janitorial either got their jobs contracted out or a 14% cut in wages. The list still grows longer.

Lots of money for anything to do with the olympics, though. Priorities????????

[cgarrett]

yeah! how about some aircraft carriers!!

[Argus]

yeah! how about some aircraft carriers!!

You know, I got a flyer today from the local Liberal in my mailbox and the first line in it was "Aircraft carriers instead of health care."

I mean, this kind of thing relies on the voters being real idiots who don't know anything about what's what. Harper has never mentioned aircraft carriers. He mentioned transport ships which can carry helicopters. The difference in price is like the difference between a Taurus and a Mazaratti.

The difference in the jobs they do is like the difference between a pickup and a Mazaratti.

But I guess if you're running your campaign from the sewers you don't mind misleading people, especially when you have no policies or programs of your own to boast about.

[Reverend Blair]

But I guess if you're running your campaign from the sewers you don't mind misleading people, especially when you have no policies or programs of your own to boast about.

While a fair description of the Harper campaign, that isn't really the topic at hand.

Our health problems, especially as we get older, are going to tax the system. There are a lot of ways of cutting costs though. More home care, more alternative medicine, moe education are the way to that.

Study after study has shown that privatised care is more expensive. That's really just common sense, public systems do not have to turn a profit, they do not need to drive stock prices ever higher to keep the shareholders happy.

[takeanumber]

Blair is right.

[caesar]

Oh Harper mentions many things that he soon backs away from. I wouldn't bet the house on it but in all this mess I do recall transcort planes being mentioned.

[caesar]

I think a lot of the talk about aging population being a drain on Health care is a red herring. We are healthier than previous generation and most of us have decent pensions and/or RRIFs and are still contributing heavily into income tax plus all those other taxes around; lotteries, pst, gst. We built up these systems and the infrastructure and deserve a little respect. Look to the spoilt younger folks who run to the doctor with a broken fingernail The federal government should take back more control of health care. Provincial governments like to use Health Care money for their own little photo op projects. Get some REAL experts on the job and not those politcal patronage appointees that don't know diddly squat about much.

[Reverend Blair]

I don't think it's a red herring at all Caesar. The baby boom generation has taxed every system since they were born. I'm from the generation just after them and I've had a front row seat for much of that taxation.

It is really just a matter of numbers...there are a lot of people in a single demographic. It's kind of like watching a snake eat a rat...there's this huge lump travelling down the body of our society.

That's not an excuse to cut health care though. As you mentioned, boomers continue to pay taxes. They are, generally, healthier than previous generations. They continue to contribute massively. They do stress the systems though, and that stress will worsen as they age and contribute less and require more.

We can stand the baby boomers just as as the snake can stand the lump the rat makes.

[maplesyrup]

I wonder how many Canadians are actually familiar with the 5 principles of the Canada Health Care Act:

1 - Public Aministration

The public administration criterion, set out in section 8 of the Canada Health Act, applies to provincial and territorial health care insurance plans. The intent of the public administration criterion is that the provincial and territorial health care insurance plans be administered and operated on a non-profit basis by a public authority, accountable to the provincial or territorial government for decision making on benefit levels and services, and whose records and accounts are publicly audited.

Is this where the loophole is that somehow is allowing the for profit lobbyists to sneak in through a back door?

Maybe this section needs to be tightened up, eh?

2 - Comprehensiveness

3 - Universality

4 - Portability

5 - Accessibility

Canada Health Act

[I miss Reagan]

Oh our lovely health care system. I know a girl in her early 20s just diagnosed with breast cancer. But she can't get in for the surgery till October. So she has a choice. She can wait and likely die. Or she can take out a loan and go to the US and get in right away. Meanwhile naive canadians are working hard to protect our great system from the evils of conservatives who want to allow for people to pay and save themselves.

[Cartman]

I know a girl in her early 20s just diagnosed with breast cancer. But she can't get in for the surgery till October. So she has a choice. She can wait and likely die. Or she can take out a loan and go to the US and get in right away.

Coincidentally, I also have a friend (in BC) in the exact same situation but I think that the problem of waiting lists is due to right wing economic policies and cuts.

[I miss Reagan]

Right wing policy cuts? How long have we had a liberal federal government? How long have you had liberal and NDP governments in BC? I'll concede that cuts to health care are not a good thing. Klein certainly hasn't done good things for my province in that regard. I think government realize that with such a large porportion of tax dollars going to health care, it just isn't sustainable the way we do things.

I really don't see the problem with having private clinics in a regulated atmosphere. I think the left has done an excellent job of scaring the hell out of canadians regarding this.