....But Israel Should Avoid Civilian Casualties at All Costs

[jbg]

Israel is often roundly criticized when it uses deadly force to retaliate against terror attacks, or makes pre-emptive attacks, such as Operation Cast Lead in Gaza, the attack on the Turkish ship, and the 2006 attack in Lebanon. There are often U.N. Commissions, reports such as the Goldstone Report, books such as Jimmy Carter's Peace or Apartheid.

When real atrocities are mentioned, they are brushed to the side with "of course I condemn those too".

There are of course plenty of atrocities aimed at Israel or the West too, such as the recent slaughter of an Israeli family (including babies), the attack on the bus station, and of course September 11. When the response to those kills civilians the press breaks loose in an orgy of self-condemnation. But Arab governments routinely and wontonly slaughter their own people. What gives? Link to article in title, excerpts below.

Syrian Troops Open Fire on Protesters in Several Cities

CAIRO — Military troops opened fire during protests in the southern part of Syria on Friday and killed peaceful demonstrators, according to witnesses and news reports, hurtling the strategically important nation along the same trajectory that has altered the landscape of power across the Arab world.

Tens of thousands of demonstrators in the southern city of Dara’a and in other cities and towns around the nation took to the streets in protest, defying a state that has once again demonstrated its willingness to use lethal force.

[Bob]

If your point is that much of the world focuses on and unfairly condemns Israel when we do what we have to, while ignoring real problems around the globe - then I agree.

[jbg]

If your point is that much of the world focuses on and unfairly condemns Israel when we do what we have to, while ignoring real problems around the globe - then I agree.

That's one of my points.

Another stronger point is that the Arab world isn't much bothered when thousands of their own people are slaughtered in internecine strife yet casualties in the single digits or tens, when inflicted by Israel or the U.S. incite outrage. Remember the "world reaction" to Abu Ghraib?

[Bob]

That's one of my points.

Another stronger point is that the Arab world isn't much bothered when thousands of their own people are slaughtered in internecine strife yet casualties in the single digits or tens, when inflicted by Israel or the U.S. incite outrage. Remember the "world reaction" to Abu Ghraib?

Well, it should be common knowledge that Arabs/Muslims have a license to kill each other. There is never Arab/Muslim outrage in the streets when they butcher each other for belonging to the wrong sect of Islam.

When Arabs/Muslims are killed in legitimate military actions by non-Muslims, however, that's a crime against humanity and time for emergency sessions at the UN and its affiliates. This is when we resume hearing the hate-filled vitriol against Crusaders, Zionists/Jews, The Great Satan, and all the other cheap rhetoric we've all heard over and over.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Bob

[Guest American Woman]

Another stronger point is that the Arab world isn't much bothered when thousands of their own people are slaughtered in internecine strife yet casualties in the single digits or tens, when inflicted by Israel or the U.S. incite outrage. Remember the "world reaction" to Abu Ghraib?

It's all part of politics. I can understand why the Arab world makes a bigger deal out of deaths inflicted by Israel or the U.S.; it's when the rest of the world does it that it becomes difficult to understand, IMO.

Edited March 27, 2011 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

It's all part of politics. I can understand why the Arab world makes a bigger deal out of deaths inflicted by Israel or the U.S.; it's when the rest of the world does it that it becomes difficult to understand, IMO.

It is indeed. Look at the air time the deaths of Jihadis on the Mavi Marmara received as opposed to the various gruesome settler deaths. Dead pregnant women...children...blood everywhere...yawn. They brought it upon themselves, of course...but not the blockade runners...innocent lambs to the slaughter.

[Bob]

It is indeed. Look at the air time the deaths of Jihadis on the Mavi Marmara received as opposed to the various gruesome settler deaths. Dead pregnant women...children...blood everywhere...yawn. They brought it upon themselves, of course...but not the blockade runners...innocent lambs to the slaughter.

I don't have access to North American cable news, anymore, besides Fox News (which I don't really watch). My parents told me that the Itamar murders didn't get any play-time at all on the regular circuit - CNN, MSNBC, CBC... is that true? I noticed that all the websites of the outlets I just mentioned used biased language in describing the events, but like I said, I didn't get to watch the TV news cycles as I don't have those channels in Israel.

The Mavi Marmara got more coverage, and the agitators got as much if not more sympathy, right?

[DogOnPorch]

I don't have access to North American cable news, anymore, besides Fox News (which I don't really watch). My parents told me that the Itamar murders didn't get any play-time at all on the regular circuit - CNN, MSNBC, CBC... is that true? I noticed that all the websites of the outlets I just mentioned used biased language in describing the events, but like I said, I didn't get to watch the TV news cycles as I don't have those channels in Israel.

The Mavi Marmara got more coverage, and the agitators got as much if not more sympathy, right?

Itmar what? Yes...they wouldn't shut-up for weeks re: Mavi Marmara.

[Guest American Woman]

It is indeed. Look at the air time the deaths of Jihadis on the Mavi Marmara received as opposed to the various gruesome settler deaths. Dead pregnant women...children...blood everywhere...yawn. They brought it upon themselves, of course...but not the blockade runners...innocent lambs to the slaughter.

Agreed; it's that "they brought it on themselves" vs. "innocent lambs to the slaughter" mentality that I don't get at all.

[Bob]

Agreed; it's that "they brought it on themselves" vs. "innocent lambs to the slaughter" mentality that I don't get at all.

It's called "anti-Semitic bias". Or, at the very least, "anti-Israel/pro-Arab" bias.

[Guest American Woman]

It's called "anti-Semitic bias". Or, at the very least, "anti-Israel/pro-Arab" bias.

I see it as more complex than that. The attitude applies to the U.S. too, big time, and to a smaller extent, the whole Western world.

[Bob]

I see it as more complex than that. The attitude applies to the U.S. too, big time, and to a smaller extent, the whole Western world.

Fair enough, but it's certainly not difficult to see the huge overlap between the groups that constantly decry "world Zionist/Jewish conspiracies" and oppression of the "Palestinian people" and those groups that constantly decry "Western imperialism", "American-backed dictatorships", "Crusaders", and allege theft of oil. There's a lot of overlap, there.

[DogOnPorch]

I see it as more complex than that. The attitude applies to the U.S. too, big time, and to a smaller extent, the whole Western world.

It's the upside-down world we live in, unfortunately. Where Jews are Nazis and fascists are victims. Seriously...even after seeing the footage of the Grand Mufti shaking hands with Hitler and chumming around with Himmler drinking champagne, try to get even a casual supporters of Palestine to admit to his evil role in history. It would make them self-destruct perhaps?

In analogy...would you follow a movement started by Charles Manson that wanted its own country in the California desert?

Edited March 27, 2011 by DogOnPorch

[jbg]

Fair enough, but it's certainly not difficult to see the huge overlap between the groups that constantly decry "world Zionist/Jewish conspiracies" and oppression of the "Palestinian people" and those groups that constantly decry "Western imperialism", "American-backed dictatorships", "Crusaders", and allege theft of oil. There's a lot of overlap, there.

The bizarre thing is that the Islamofascists are light years behind the rest of the world in just about every respect. Look at the alarming verbiage that routinely comes from these people compared to anything coming out of "normal" countries.

[Bob]

The bizarre thing is that the Islamofascists are light years behind the rest of the world in just about every respect. Look at the alarming verbiage that routinely comes from these people compared to anything coming out of "normal" countries.

I don't understand, you mean the vitriol coming out from these hardcore Islamists is about a hundred times more filled with hate than the worst soundbytes we can find from Pat Robertson?

[jbg]

I don't understand, you mean the vitriol coming out from these hardcore Islamists is about a hundred times more filled with hate than the worst soundbytes we can find from Pat Robertson?

Or Stockwell Day, yes.

[Bob]

Or Stockwell Day, yes.

Haha, I understand. At the risk of unfairly seeming like a leftist weasel, which I most certainly am not - I wouldn't use the term "Islamofascist". I feel the term is politicized and strongly associated with anti-Islamic prejudice. I think "Islamist" (Islamism) is a better term to describe the political Islam that you and I are concerned about.

[jbg]

I think "Islamist" (Islamism) is a better term to describe the political Islam that you and I are concerned about.

Actually I think the problem predates Islam. Nothing is terribly different from the way the Carthegenians, Amelkites, Jebusites, Canaanites and Philistines conducted themselves; murder, rape, pillage and victimization of the weak.

[Bonam]

Actually I think the problem predates Islam. Nothing is terribly different from the way the Carthegenians, Amelkites, Jebusites, Canaanites and Philistines conducted themselves; murder, rape, pillage and victimization of the weak.

Nor is it particularly different from how Europeans or Asians or Africans have conducted themselves for thousands of years, either. In fact the only historical aberration is the current (last few decades) Western mindset, where members of a group more strongly condemn the group's own actions and leaders than they do those of other groups. It is an inherently self-destructive psychosis that gives a direct advantage to rival groups.

[GostHacked]

JBG, you are really lumping 9/11 in with this?? Really?

[Oleg Bach]

Just a matter of time before Israel suffers the pangs of revolution.. I am sure that the average person there would like to have a peaceful and secure existance..but the people in power find that peace is not in their best interest...eventually...the common Israelite will shout......................" I want to be friends with my neighbour...and YOU can not stop me from doing so" - try to be a Jew and make friends with your neighbor...You will be sytemically and institutionally persecuted for wanting human normalacy.

[Bonam]

eventually...the common Israelite will shout......................" I want to be friends with my neighbour...and YOU can not stop me from doing so" - try to be a Jew and make friends with your neighbor...

I assume that by neighbor you mean an Arab neighbor. Such friendships already exist in plentiful numbers. There is no government policy that bans such friendship. The biggest barrier to more such friendliness is that this neighbor is just as likely to murder your wife and children as to come over for tea.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Bonam

[Oleg Bach]

I assume that by neighbor you mean an Arab neighbor. Such friendships already exist in plentiful numbers. There is no government policy that bans such friendship. The biggest barrier to more such friendliness is that this neighbor is just as likely to murder your wife and children as to come over for tea.

That is not true. Give a person some work and some money - a clean bed and good food...he or she will not be interested in mischief at that point. What you are propogating is as much a lie as saying that Mary the mother of Christ was and remained a virgin...It's impossible.....as it is for believing that evil and stupidity will not run it's course and fade...There should be NO "peace process" - there should simply be peace...process sounds like a prolonged litigative affair. Palistine was a source of cheap labour...maybe the Jews should have paid them more.

[jbg]

JBG, you are really lumping 9/11 in with this?? Really?

I don't remember mentioning September 11 in this thread, but yes, I absolutely do. It is part of the pattern of utterly senseless, purposeless tragedies inflicted on innocent families just because they're Western.

[GostHacked]

I don't remember mentioning September 11 in this thread, but yes, I absolutely do. It is part of the pattern of utterly senseless, purposeless tragedies inflicted on innocent families just because they're Western.

Read your opening post. 2nd paragraph.