Guest American Woman Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 Nope... In fact it's slightly more 11 or 12 x as much in fact... ie - Kidney stone operation Orlando Florida 1998 - total costs (excluding medications) $12,342.00 (and excluding the cost, about $300.00, of the additional insurances I needed to have in place to even be operated on.) Kidney stone operation Winnipeg Manitoba 2000 - total cost (excluding medications) $1,023.00 (fully covered under Canada's Health Care system with no additional costs.) Both were identical operations for exactly the same problem... Yes, and of course the cost of a kidney stone operation in Orlando speaks for all health care costs throughout the U.S. just as the cost of a kidney stone operation in Manitoba speaks for all health care costs throughout Canada. Sorry, but I live in the U.S. and have also had health care while in Canada and the idea that health care costs at least 10x more in the U.S. is ludicrous. In many instances it's the same. Quote
GWiz Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Yes, and of course the cost of a kidney stone operation in Orlando speaks for all health care costs throughout the U.S. just as the cost of a kidney stone operation in Manitoba speaks for all health care costs throughout Canada. Sorry, but I live in the U.S. and have also had health care while in Canada and the idea that health care costs at least 10x more in the U.S. is ludicrous. In many instances it's the same. Then you'd know that the cost of Health Care in Florida is among the lowest in the US right? As well as Doctors and Nurses being paid less that almost anywhere in the US, which I'm sure you are also aware of... If you'd like to give me an example of where in the US I can travel without NEEDING extra insurance beyond my Canadian Health Care Coverage, which is limited to what the same proceedure would cost in Canada, please feel free to do so... Incidentally the "billing" from the Surgeon alone (a seperate bill than "Hospital Related") was triple what the entire procedure cost in Canada... I think dear lady you knowest not whereoff you speak in this case... Edited March 21, 2011 by GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Guest American Woman Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Then you'd know that the cost of Health Care in Florida is among the lowest in the US right? As well as Doctors and Nurses being paid less that almost anywhere in the US, which I'm sure you are also aware of... If you'd like to give me an example of where in the US I can travel without NEEDING extra insurance beyond my Canadian Health Care Coverage, which is limited to what the same proceedure would cost in Canada, please feel free to do so... Incidentally the "billing" from the Surgeon alone (a seperate bill than "Hospital Related") was triple what the entire procedure cost in Canada... I think dear lady you knowest not whereoff you speak in this case... I'm not going to discuss this with someone who is saying that one procedure in one city speaks for ALL health care in the United States and Canada. I can't believe for a minute that even you believe that it does. Edited March 21, 2011 by American Woman Quote
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 I'm not going to discuss this with someone who is saying that one procedure in one city speaks for ALL health care in the United States and Canada. I can't believe for a minute that even you believe that it does. Of course not.. That would be silly... In New York City for example it would likely cost me nearly twice as much as in Florida and Doctors and Nurses get a much higher, nearly double, pay than in Florida to match the much higher cost of living in New York than in Florida... Throughout the US Health Care costs vary but as I stated the Health Care costs are possibly the lowest and certainly among the lowest in Florida which I know the best from being there for some 10 plus years... As to what you pay for any Health Care in Canada being a non-resident of Canada the cost to someone like you would be considerably higher than to a Canadian and rightly so since you don't pay taxes in Canada which is what funds a public health care system... What's most telling of all though is that your federal public health care TAXES, even before so called "Obama Care", were nearly double that which Canadians pay for their entire Health Care system... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Guest American Woman Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Of course not.. That would be silly... Silly, indeed. Yet you haven't disclaimed your earlier nonsense based on just that. As to what you pay for any Health Care in Canada being a non-resident of Canada the cost to someone like you would be considerably higher than to a Canadian Give me a break. They weren't upping the prices because I'm an American. They charged me what they charged everyone else. Furthermore, based on what I pay here, if it costs ten times less in Canada, your doctors must make 20 grand a year tops, because that's all they could pull in if they were taking in merely $5 a visit. What's most telling of all though is that your federal public health care TAXES, even before so called "Obama Care", were nearly double that which Canadians pay for their entire Health Care system... And what does that have to do with your ludicrous claim? Oh yeah. Nothing. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 ...Give me a break. They weren't upping the prices because I'm an American. They charged me what they charged everyone else. Furthermore, based on what I pay here, if it costs ten times less in Canada, your doctors must make 20 grand a year tops, because that's all they could pull in if they were taking in merely $5 a visit.... I think that's why many Canadian medical professionals use to vote with their feet for the USA (brain drain). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) I think that's why many Canadian medical professionals use to vote with their feet for the USA (brain drain). I know doctors in Canada make less and medical costs are usually less than they are in the U.S., but to say we pay ten times more for health care is just plain ignorant. When I was quoted prices for medical services in Canada I wasn't quoted the prices I was because I was an American; they didn't even know I was an American at the time. Furthermore, they were a far cry from ten times less than what's charged here. Edited March 22, 2011 by American Woman Quote
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Silly, indeed. Yet you haven't disclaimed your earlier nonsense based on just that. I did indeed do exactly what you stated I should do... Give me a break. They weren't upping the prices because I'm an American. Sorry, no, they didn't "up the price" they just charged you the full costs without any restrictions on those costs as there would be if it was a Canadian patient... They charged me what they charged everyone else. Indeed they did... Everyone else that isn't part of Canada's Health Care system... Furthermore, based on what I pay here, if it costs ten times less in Canada, your doctors must make 20 grand a year tops, because that's all they could pull in if they were taking in merely $5 a visit. A GOOD family practitioner in Canada with a full patient load earns around $200,000.00 a year paid by the Government and most "healthy" Canadians see their family Doctor, if they have one, at least 3-4 times a year including at least one full annual physical... And it makes no difference if a patient with "health issues" that needs to see a Doctor 20 or more times a year, the Doctor still receives the same "per visit" amount set by the Government... Of course Doctors with "specialties" and Surgeons make substantially more since their rates of pay are higher commensurate with their abilities and expertise... That's not even touching on Canada's much lower costs involved in Hospital care between Government non-profit Hospitals and private for-profit Hospitals where the bulk of "Health Care Costs" come in... That's my side of the story, care to tell me yours? And what does that have to do with your ludicrous claim? Oh yeah. Nothing. You pay 44 cents per dollar of fed. taxes for your health care, Medicare and Medicaid included, to my paying 23 cents per dollar of my tax dollars for Canada's Health Care system regardless of age... If you don't mind paying that extra 21 cents per tax dollar (dollar differences excluded) PLUS any health insurance you pay I certainly don't mind either... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Guest American Woman Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Sorry, no, they didn't "up the price" they just charged you the full costs without any restrictions on those costs as there would be if it was a Canadian patient... Let me try to make it clearer; "they didn't know I was an American" means that they thought I was a Canadian patient. Indeed they did... Everyone else that isn't part of Canada's Health Care system... See above. And then have a good night. Quote
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Let me try to make it clearer; "they didn't know I was an American" means that they thought I was a Canadian patient. See above. And then have a good night. They knew when you asked for a "cost" of health care, no Canadian asks that... G'nite, sleep tight, and you know the rest... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Guest American Woman Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 They knew when you asked for a "cost" of health care, no Canadian asks that... G'nite, sleep tight, and you know the rest... Wrong. Again. I was asked if I had an OHIP card and when I said no, was told the cost, and that I could be reimbursed by my province. At that point they still thought I was a Canadian. They didn't know otherwise until I told them I lived in the United States. Furthermore, I know what Canadians were charged from my experience in Canada. And thus ends this discussion. But do go on trying to convince people that health care in the United States is ten times more expensive than in Canada and that naturalized U.S. citizens have to give up their prior citizenship. There just aren't enough fallacies being perpetuated on the web...... Sweet dreams. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 I know doctors in Canada make less and medical costs are usually less than they are in the U.S., but to say we pay ten times more for health care is just plain ignorant. That's OK....health care in the US is ten times FASTER! ;) Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) That's OK....health care in the US is ten times FASTER! ;) Or not... Your fallacies show you to be already asleep or at least oblivious to the truth, so in your case, I hope the bed bugs do bite.. G'nite... Edited March 22, 2011 by GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
wyly Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 They knew when you asked for a "cost" of health care, no Canadian asks that...yup...it's all BS anyone who requires healthcare in Canada knows the first thing that we are ALWAYS asked for is our Healthcare card, she would've been identified as not being canadian before any discussion of treatment... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Or not... Your fallacies show you to be already asleep or at least oblivious to the truth, so in your case, I hope the bed bugs do bite.. Hehe...methinks you like to dish it but cannot take it in return. Wait times have their own official web sites in the provinces....so politically sensitive is the issue. LOL! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 yup...it's all BS anyone who requires healthcare in Canada knows the first thing that we are ALWAYS asked for is our Healthcare card, she would've been identified as not being canadian before any discussion of treatment... What part of I was asked if I had an OHIP card didn't you understand? As I already stated, I was told the cost and then told I could be reimbursed by my province. Guess they didn't follow the Wyly Rules of Conduct before stating the cost. Quote
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 yup...it's all BS anyone who requires healthcare in Canada knows the first thing that we are ALWAYS asked for is our Healthcare card, she would've been identified as not being canadian before any discussion of treatment... THAT is the thing that virtually no one in the US can get their head around regardless of the blather and bluster they post here... It's the exact OPPOSITE of how it works in the states where the FIRST thing you have to do is tell them how you're going to PAY for any medical services... In my case when I came into the Hospital's emergency I had to wait two hours in great pain while they "checked out" the insurance info "I" gave them before I was seen by a Doctor... Rather bizare since my wife at the TIME worked at that Hospital and she was the one giving them my insurance stuff and personal info since I was in no shape to tell them anything considering the pain I was very obviously in... Another thing, can you imagine any clerk or nurse being ABLE to tell someone how much "treatment" in Canada costs? I can't, at least not without doing a lot of phoning, checking and calculating involving the Doctor and anything else required for said "treatment"... Most Canadian Doctors wouldn't even know how to charge a patient directly... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 It's the exact OPPOSITE of how it works in the states where the FIRST thing you have to do is tell them how you're going to PAY for any medical services... Nonsense...they ask for an insurance card...not a credit card. Hell, Canadian Forces get better/faster care with the same Blue Cross card that I have. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/05-04-eng.asp Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
wyly Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 THAT is the thing that virtually no one in the US can get their head around regardless of the blather and bluster they post here... It's the exact OPPOSITE of how it works in the states where the FIRST thing you have to do is tell them how you're going to PAY for any medical services... they can't comprehend that a health card is nothing more than proof of residency, it's not health insurance...Another thing, can you imagine any clerk or nurse being ABLE to tell someone how much "treatment" in Canada costs? I can't, at least not without doing a lot of phoning, checking and calculating involving the Doctor and anything else required for said "treatment"... generally they wouldn't have a clue it's not part of their job requirements...Most Canadian Doctors wouldn't even know how to charge a patient directly...they usually would have someone do that for them ...mrs wyly worked with a cardiologist for a brief period managing his accounts, she knew what he was to be paid for each procedure but even she would have no idea what the other related O.R. costs would be for additional MDs, nurses, technicians, orderlies and supplies involved... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Nonsense...they ask for an insurance card...not a credit card. Exactly how is that different from what I said? That's right, it isn't... Before they do anything they ask how you're going to pay for the medical services, if you have insurance(s), as I did, being from Canada they varify the insurance coverage(s) before any treatment begins... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 they can't comprehend that a health card is nothing more than proof of residency, it's not health insurance... generally they wouldn't have a clue it's not part of their job requirements... they usually would have someone do that for them ...mrs wyly worked with a cardiologist for a brief period managing his accounts, she knew what he was to be paid for each procedure but even she would have no idea what the other related O.R. costs would be for additional MDs, nurses, technicians, orderlies and supplies involved... Exactly! Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Wrong. Again. I was asked if I had an OHIP card and when I said no, was told the cost, and that I could be reimbursed by my province. At that point they still thought I was a Canadian. They didn't know otherwise until I told them I lived in the United States. Furthermore, I know what Canadians were charged from my experience in Canada. And thus ends this discussion. But do go on trying to convince people that health care in the United States is ten times more expensive than in Canada and that naturalized U.S. citizens have to give up their prior citizenship. There just aren't enough fallacies being perpetuated on the web...... Sweet dreams. Dear lady, I could be wrong about "dual citizenship", things do change, but I'm right about US vs Canadian Health Care Costs... I've even written articles on it... I've done the research... To clarify... Is every "Health" related cost in the US 10x as expensive as the same "Health" related cost in Canada, probably not, but overall, "Health Care" in the the US costs 10x (or more) than it costs in Canada, that's simply a fact... As well every insurance premium Americans pay, regardless of employer or individual source, etc., is a form of private TAX on Americans that Canadians don't have to pay for their Health Care... Americans pay almost double what Canadians do for TAX based Health Care that doesn't cover everyone in the US whereas in Canada it does cover everyone... There are certain advantages Americans get from that higher cost as well, like no Doctor shortage, although that too varies, and things like MRIs and other more sophisticated equipment being readily available and more accessible in the US than in Canada... As for that OHIP card, that's completely wrong, as previously stated, it's not an insurance card as you seem to think, it's proof of residency and that you are covered by that provinces' health plan and nothing more... There's no "reimbursement" element to it... WHO told you the cost and HOW would the person you were talking to even know it? There's no "fee schedule (in most cases)" for someone to look up... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Exactly how is that different from what I said? An insurance card means both eligibility and benefits coverage depending on the procedure and plan...it is not payment. Co-pays and deductibles still apply. But don't worry, wannabe pretenders like you always get that part of the story wrong. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Americans pay almost double what Canadians do for TAX based Health Care that doesn't cover everyone in the US whereas in Canada it does cover everyone... ...and Americans get a lot more too. There are certain advantages Americans get from that higher cost as well, like no Doctor shortage, although that too varies, and things like MRIs and other more sophisticated equipment being readily available and more accessible in the US than in Canada... Yea...that's why Canadians head for the border when they get tired of the very patriotic wait times, and why several provinces have standing contracts with American health care providers. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
madmax Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Nonsense...they ask for an insurance card...not a credit card. Hell, Canadian Forces get better/faster care with the same Blue Cross card that I have. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/05-04-eng.asp Many people in the US don't have an "Insurance Card". About 40 Million infact. Quote
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