More Tory tricks

[Topaz]

The Tories first gave the Liberal their opposition day on Monday March 21st, but now they Tory are afraid that the opposition parties will bring down the government before the budget has been read that they have changed the Liberals opposition day to March 25th. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-tinker-with-commons-calendar-as-liberals-mull-confidence-motion/article1943180/

[punked]

The Tories first gave the Liberal their opposition day on Monday March 21st, but now they Tory are afraid that the opposition parties will bring down the government before the budget has been read that they have changed the Liberals opposition day to March 25th. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-tinker-with-commons-calendar-as-liberals-mull-confidence-motion/article1943180/

What is that? You mean the Conservatives are acting just like the Liberals you keep telling us are so great? Say it aint so. This is like shooting fish in a barrel the two parties are the same, I told you that.

April 19 2005(Bloomberg) -- Canada's governing Liberal Party deprived the Conservative Party of a chance to force an election for at least three weeks after canceling a day set aside for the main opposition party to set the parliamentary agenda, the Toronto Star reported.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aIEB7clUjx9k&refer=canada

[Shakeyhands]

I'm going to cast a protest vote for a party that will never win a federal election and thereby keep things the same way they are now!!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aIEB7clUjx9k&refer=canada

Fixed it for you Punked. No need to thank me.

[punked]

Fixed it for you Punked. No need to thank me.

I don't think you fixed it for me. Maybe if it read, I am going to vote for a party that truly represents what I believe in and that has ideas 20-30 years before the Liberals cave to support them. Then maybe but it comes down to is my vote will never be held hostage because the the other two parties are the same.

As for never win, the Liberals aren't going win, right it looks like they are never going to win either. Heck a number of polls have then at the margin of error with the NDP.

BTW not to get off topic but the Liberals did this when they were in power all the time. So if you think this is wrong then voting for the Liberals would show what a hypocrite you are.

Edited March 18, 2011 by punked

[Shakeyhands]

I don't think you fixed it for me. Maybe if it read, I am going to vote for a party that truly represents what I believe in and that has ideas 20-30 years before the Liberals cave to support them. Then maybe but it comes down to is my vote will never be held hostage because the the other two parties are the same.

As for never win, the Liberals aren't going win, right it looks like they are never going to win either. Heck a number of polls have then at the margin of error with the NDP.

BTW not to get off topic but the Liberals did this when they were in power all the time. So if you think this is wrong then voting for the Liberals would show what a hypocrite you are.

I understand your convictions, I really do. And I was half joking with your post. But lets be realistic here, look at the last election - hell look at all the previous elections, but specifically the last two... When we split the center left vote between the Liberals and the NDP it allows the CPC to win. I've pointed out the situation in my riding before, I actually voted for the NDP candidate because he had the best chance of beating the CPC goof. If we voted strategically we need not endure another x many years of Harper. It's pretty simple.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Shakeyhands

[punked]

I understand your convictions, I really do. And I was half joking with your post. But lets be realistic here, look at the last election - hell look at all the previous elections, but specifically the last two... When we split the center left vote between the Liberals and the NDP it allows the CPC to win. I've pointed out the situation in my riding before, I actually voted for the NDP candidate because he had the best chance of beating the CPC goof. If we voted strategically we need not endure another x many years of Harper. It's pretty simple.

I believe the Liberals actually split the Center right vote, which is a good thing. Just look at the last 4 years worth of voting, they are a right wing party.

[nicky10013]

I believe the Liberals actually split the Center right vote, which is a good thing. Just look at the last 4 years worth of voting, they are a right wing party.

Someone has to be responsible and prop up the government in order to stop spending 300 million on endless elections. Just because you, as a dipper (just look at your policies) don't care at all about tax payer money doesn't mean other parties shouldn't.

[punked]

Someone has to be responsible and prop up the government in order to stop spending 300 million on endless elections. Just because you, as a dipper (just look at your policies) don't care at all about tax payer money doesn't mean other parties shouldn't.

Seems like the Liberals are going to be very happy to send us into a 300 million dollar election that wont change parliament very soon. HYPOCRITE!!!

[nicky10013]

Seems like the Liberals are going to be very happy to send us into a 300 million dollar election that wont change parliament very soon. HYPOCRITE!!!

How do you know? Oh, right, because you're a hubris filled ideological political novice.

[punked]

How do you know? Oh, right, because you're a hubris filled ideological political novice.

Got it. No election on what you believe in, only a election when the Liberals have enough money. I got it we can only have elections when Liberals want them, and if we have elections outside that time we are being irresponsible? It is a waste of 300 million today when we are going to get the same parliament just as it would have been a year ago or 2 years ago.

BTW you must thing Trudeau was horrible because he helped bring down Joe Clark after just 6 months. No wait I forgot having an election when Liberals want one is OK.

HYPOCRITE!

[nicky10013]

Got it. No election on what you believe in, only a election when the Liberals have enough money. I got it we can only have elections when Liberals want them, and if we have elections outside that time we are being irresponsible? It is a waste of 300 million today when we are going to get the same parliament just as it would have been a year ago or 2 years ago.

BTW you must thing Trudeau was horrible because he helped bring down Joe Clark after just 6 months. No wait I forgot having an election when Liberals want one is OK.

HYPOCRITE!

So you're calling Liberal politicians hypocrites for being politicians? The one thing dippers can never understand about politics is that you can believe in whatever you want but you can't do it anything about it unless you actually win. Which means that sometimes you have to eat it so you can win a year or two down the line and actually implement your agenda.

Trudeau won, didn't he?

Furthermore, don't scream hypocrite. NDP rarely ever stands on it's ideals when it could be bad for them in an election.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-takes-corporate-tax-cuts-off-the-table/article1913724/?service=mobile

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20090913/qp_layton_090913/

[punked]

So you're calling Liberal politicians hypocrites for being politicians? The one thing dippers can never understand about politics is that you can believe in whatever you want but you can't do it anything about it unless you actually win. Which means that sometimes you have to eat it so you can win a year or two down the line and actually implement your agenda.

Trudeau won, didn't he?

Furthermore, don't scream hypocrite. NDP rarely ever stands on it's ideals when it could be bad for them in an election.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-takes-corporate-tax-cuts-off-the-table/article1913724/?service=mobile

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20090913/qp_layton_090913/

The NDP are a fourth Party when they can get progressive policy passed they will get the deal done. The NDP dealt with the Conservatives for a Billion for EI when the Liberals couldn't get the job done. They dealt with Martin to get a number of things in the budget they dealt with Diefenbaker to get a Hospitable care act.

They have dealt with almost every Prime minster at some point and time to get progressive policy passed. I don't see how that is Hypocritical they don't hide it. It is how the party has always operated and have never pretended to be anything else. That is the difference between the Liberals and the NDP the Liberals just let the Conservatives do whatever they want and votes with them because they are a right wing party and they are scared. The NDP demands to work with the government the government must actually work with them.

As for the polls being bad for them the polls are fine for the NDP they might lose 5 seats but they also might win 10, the polls are just fine for the NDP. They are between 15-19% and up in all the right places. I really don't understand what you are saying unless you are losing this argument so you are trying to through stuff up to see if it sticks. That is what I assume you are doing because your points make no sense in the context of Canadian politics.

Trudeau did win btw but that is beside the point. Your point is we can have an election every 6 months.....unless it is good for the Liberals. That is silly.

Edited March 18, 2011 by punked

[nicky10013]

The NDP are a fourth Party when they can get progressive policy passed they will get the deal done. The NDP dealt with the Conservatives for a Billion for EI when the Liberals couldn't get the job done. They dealt with Martin to get a number of things in the budget they dealt with Diefenbaker to get a Hospitable care act.

How can the Liberals get the job done when Harper won't negotiate with them? He's purposefully spiting the Liberals and in turn splitting the left by only dealing with the NDP. Say what you want about the Liberals but they're a more progressive option than the CPC. You guys are just so jaded the Liberals are the centre-left party that wins that you're willing to deal with a party on the direct opposite end of the spectrum as you to spite them. In doing so, you idiots are getting less progressive policy through the house while helping the CPC win votes in general elections.

They have dealt with almost every Prime minster at some point and time to get progressive policy passed. I don't see how that is Hypocritical they don't hide it. It is how the party has always operated and have never pretended to be anything else. That is the difference between the Liberals and the NDP the Liberals just let the Conservatives do whatever they want and votes with them because they are a right wing party and they are scared. The NDP demands to work with the government the government must actually work with them.

So there is absolutely no politics involved? The NDP actually demands the government must work with them, until the prospect of an election looms and jack has to go cap in hand, tail between legs to Harper to beg to cut a shitty deal just to stay alive. Meanwhile, they have stooges like you go out and spread the talking points that the NDP is actually working for Canadians while the Liberals are just playing politics? The NDP have never had it easier - they can cave and make it look like they're actually doing anything when in real fact they're powerless because they're so desperate to avoid an election they'll give Harper anything - furthermore, Harper knows it.

Yet the Liberals are playing politics? Take your head out of your ass. Your party is no better morally than any other. If it wasn't it wouldn't win seats in federal politics. You guys are just too stupid politically to win any more seats.

As for the polls being bad for them the polls are fine for the NDP they might lose 5 seats but they also might win 10, the polls are just fine for the NDP. They are between 15-19% and up in all the right places.

5 seats might be the difference between being able to keep parliament alive rather than just have the Liberals and Bloc decide and get your ridiculous deals with Harper through. The fact that you're willing to write those 5 seats off shows how inept at least you are.

I really don't understand what you are saying unless you are losing this argument so you are trying to through stuff up to see if it sticks.

Thanks for coming out and admitting it at least.

That is what I assume you are doing because your points make no sense in the context of Canadian politics.

Riiiight.

Edited March 18, 2011 by nicky10013

[capricorn]

Seems like the Liberals are going to be very happy to send us into a 300 million dollar election that wont change parliament very soon. HYPOCRITE!!!

Yeah. A $300M election for the Liberals to get rid of Ignatieff cause they can't afford a leadership convention. Let the sucker taxpayers pay for the mistake Liberals made when they anointed Ignatieff.

[nicky10013]

Yeah. A $300M election for the Liberals to get rid of Ignatieff cause they can't afford a leadership convention. Let the sucker taxpayers pay for the mistake Liberals made when they anointed Ignatieff.

Personally, how many card carrying active Liberals do you know that want Ignatieff out?

[punked]

How can the Liberals get the job done when Harper won't negotiate with them? He's purposefully spiting the Liberals and in turn splitting the left by only dealing with the NDP. Say what you want about the Liberals but they're a more progressive option than the CPC. You guys are just so jaded the Liberals are the centre-left party that wins that you're willing to deal with a party on the direct opposite end of the spectrum as you to spite them. In doing so, you idiots are getting less progressive policy through the house while helping the CPC win votes in general elections.

Maybe he wont deal with them because their supporters accept stupid arguments like "We can't vote against the government it might fall and it has only been a year." Maybe if you actually held you party and leader accountable Harper would care what your party said. I will take the progressive policy where I can get it. I am not voting Liberal because I know they wont bring progressive policy forward with out the NDP there.

So there is absolutely no politics involved? The NDP actually demands the government must work with them, until the prospect of an election looms and jack has to go cap in hand, tail between legs to Harper to beg to cut a shitty deal just to stay alive. Meanwhile, they have stooges like you go out and spread the talking points that the NDP is actually working for Canadians while the Liberals are just playing politics? The NDP have never had it easier - they can cave and make it look like they're actually doing anything when in real fact they're powerless because they're so desperate to avoid an election they'll give Harper anything - furthermore, Harper knows it.

Yet the Liberals are playing politics? Take your head out of your ass. Your party is no better morally than any other. If it wasn't it wouldn't win seats in federal politics. You guys are just too stupid politically to win any more seats.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time the NDP gets to make demands is when the Liberals stop letting the conservatives do what they want because the Liberals never ask for anything. Then Liberals get mad because the NDP is getting the things done they couldn't because their party doesn't actually care about getting anything but power. My party has made many many deals at the same time dropped plenty of governments Martin being one because they thought they were to corrupt to work with. That is just the way it is. Right now we are looking at spending 300 million to be right where we are now so why not try to get something because we all know the Liberals are going to lose. Problem is the NDP are acting as the opposition and the Liberals are just watching.

5 seats might be the difference between being able to keep parliament alive rather than just have the Liberals and Bloc decide and get your ridiculous deals with Harper through. The fact that you're willing to write those 5 seats off shows how inept at least you are.

Sorry I don't play into Liberal fear mongering. We will be right back to where we are today if an election happens in April.

Thanks for coming out and admitting it at least.

Still don't see where you are coming from. You are making claims like "The NDP are down in the polls so they are going to give Harper whatever he wants" even though they are fine in the polls and have a list of demands to support the government. I feel like desperation is setting in, in Liberal Land.

Riiiight.

It doesn't

[capricorn]

Personally, how many card carrying active Liberals do you know that want Ignatieff out?

I don't go to Starbucks.

[nicky10013]

Maybe he wont deal with them because their supporters accept stupid arguments like "We can't vote against the government it might fall and it has only been a year." Maybe if you actually held you party and leader accountable Harper would care what your party said. I will take the progressive policy where I can get it. I am not voting Liberal because I know they wont bring progressive policy forward with out the NDP there.

At this point considering his record, do you honestly think Harper cares what anyone thinks anymore? This reeks of self-aggrandizing denial. That somehow Harper chose the NDP because the party is more pure. No. Just like everything Harper does - that and the NDP (you have something in common) - everything Harper does is to screw the centre-left.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time the NDP gets to make demands is when the Liberals stop letting the conservatives do what they want because the Liberals never ask for anything. Then Liberals get mad because the NDP is getting the things done they couldn't because their party doesn't actually care about getting anything but power. My party has made many many deals at the same time dropped plenty of governments Martin being one because they thought they were to corrupt to work with. That is just the way it is. Right now we are looking at spending 300 million to be right where we are now so why not try to get something because we all know the Liberals are going to lose. Problem is the NDP are acting as the opposition and the Liberals are just watching.

If you forgot, the Liberals and the Conservatives actually negotiated in 2009 before going to Layton. In all the meetings, none of the CPC showed up. Instead, they went to Jack. Now why would they do that? Oh yeah, to screw the Liberals and split the left.

Sorry I don't play into Liberal fear mongering. We will be right back to where we are today if an election happens in April.

What in god's name are you talking about? Do you honestly think I care if the NDP loses seats? I hope they lose seats so we don't have to put up with Jack's inflated sense of self-importance for another parliament.

Still don't see where you are coming from. You are making claims like "The NDP are down in the polls so they are going to give Harper whatever he wants" even though they are fine in the polls and have a list of demands to support the government. I feel like desperation is setting in, in Liberal Land.

You won 18.2% of the vote in the past election, are currently at 14.9% and you think this is fine? Apparently Jack doesn't or else he wouldn't be crawling on his knees for a deal. Whether you think it's desperation or not, the fact that he took corporate tax cuts off the table even though he said he never would signals everything you need to know.

Am I really the one who is desperate here? I'm at least not in denial. You seem to be.

It doesn't

It actually does, you're just living in fantasy land.

[punked]

At this point considering his record, do you honestly think Harper cares what anyone thinks anymore? This reeks of self-aggrandizing denial. That somehow Harper chose the NDP because the party is more pure. No. Just like everything Harper does - that and the NDP (you have something in common) - everything Harper does is to screw the centre-left.

No I know why Harper chose the NDP it is because the Liberals let him do whatever he wants until they have enough money to run an election then they wont vote with him on Anything. He knows the NDP might strike a deal because they don't care if they win or lose most of the time if they can pass progressive policy. They are what a true opposition party should be they make parliament work because they are willing to work with anyone in parliament. However they are never afraid of an election.

If you forgot, the Liberals and the Conservatives actually negotiated in 2009 before going to Layton. In all the meetings, none of the CPC showed up. Instead, they went to Jack. Now why would they do that? Oh yeah, to screw the Liberals and split the left.

I do remember the CPC actually did show up to the meetings in fact their were two meetings they went to the Liberals were the ones who walked away from the table crying. In fact the Cons actually had a the last meeting with out them because the Liberals refused to make parliament work. It was at that point Jack stepped in and got the Billion dollars the Liberals were asking for by being a real leader. Not a very good example for your guys though.

I remember that because that was the same summer Republicans and Democrats were having the same type of meetings on Health care with each other. Those guys couldn't agree on anything but they met hundreds of times to try and make it work. The Liberals couldn't even do two meetings though talk about thin skin.

What in god's name are you talking about? Do you honestly think I care if the NDP loses seats? I hope they lose seats so we don't have to put up with Jack's inflated sense of self-importance for another parliament.

You won 18.2% of the vote in the past election, are currently at 14.9% and you think this is fine? Apparently Jack doesn't or else he wouldn't be crawling on his knees for a deal. Whether you think it's desperation or not, the fact that he took corporate tax cuts off the table even though he said he never would signals everything you need to know.

Am I really the one who is desperate here? I'm at least not in denial. You seem to be.

Last poll was from Ledger we are at 18% and beating the Liberals in Quebec sorry. FACTS!

BTW the Liberals are at 23%.

In fact if we look at the the 6 different pollsters.

Ledger 18%

AR 17%

Ipsos has them at 16%

VC has them at 18%

Nanos has them at 19%

AND EKOS a Liberal Pollster who donates to the Liberal party has them at 14.9%

Don't think they are worried. I however noticed you picked the lowest number. BTW the last EKOS poll before the last Federal election had the NDP and get this at 14.9%. So I don't think your argument that the NDP wont go to an election with Ekos putting them at 14.9% is very good BTW. FACTS!

http://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2008/09/political-logjam-broken/

It actually does, you're just living in fantasy land.

FACTS!

[Rovik]

.

In fact if we look at the the 6 different pollsters.

Ledger 18%

AR 17%

Ipsos has them at 16%

VC has them at 18%

Nanos has them at 19%

AND EKOS a Liberal Pollster who donates to the Liberal party has them at 14.9%

That is something I have noticed re: poll numbers. The so called main stream media "experts" tend to focus on polls that lowball the NDP. They say things like "well the NDP have the most to lose in an election..." and so on. Of course, the MSM tend to be bias towards either the Liberals or the Conservatives and bias against the NDP (there are some exceptions but they are in a tiny minority). It's too bad really; I've always believed that the media should be neutral but sadly it's not the case. And what makes it really sad is the uninformed Canadian who may watch a portion of a "roundtable" (perhaps in the midst of channel surfing) could believe what these so called "experts" say to be true.

[Molly]

Remember the movie 'Being There'?

The press is in a bit of a position. Is it a matter of bias to treat (the) Chauncey Gardiner (party) as a wienie if you know the real situation?

[madmax]

How can the Liberals get the job done when Harper won't negotiate with them?

HUH?

I have been reading this thread, and while I see punked as a vocal NDPer, its clear he made his points that the "4th Party" was able to squeeze the juice out of the lemon with as little as 29 seats and with as many as 39 seats. Yet somehow in 4 years, the Liberals with 77 seats and up haven't been able to get a plug nickle?

I have never read such a defeatist attitude.

No wonder the Liberal Party has stunk.

[madmax]

If you forgot, the Liberals and the Conservatives actually negotiated in 2009 before going to Layton. In all the meetings, none of the CPC showed up. Instead, they went to Jack. Now why would they do that? Oh yeah, to screw the Liberals and split the left.

The Liberals were not attempting to negotiate. Ignatieff had said "your time is up" and went on the campaign trail. For all intensive purposes the election was on cause the Liberals wanted one. Then their poll numbers started to PLUMMET. Regardless the NDP secured a deal that was positive to the public and needed. They turned the CPC from ignoring the needs of EI to supporting EI reform and helping the people in need. While the CPC campaigned against EI, they actually were doing the opposite, regardless of what that Idiot Finley was saying. She is a clueless Cabinet Minister. So against her wishes, the people benefited and that was because of the NDP cutting a deal. Up until then the NDP had nothing to show for being in office. However, if you look at the LPC record after 4.5 years of Conservative government, they still have NOTHING to show.

There is no reward in being dead wood.

[madmax]

You won 18.2% of the vote in the past election, are currently at 14.9% and you think this is fine?

Those are Traditional NDP polling numbers. I believe they went into the 2008 election at 13% and everyone said they were going to lose seats.

Apparently Jack doesn't or else he wouldn't be crawling on his knees for a deal. Whether you think it's desperation or not, the fact that he took corporate tax cuts off the table even though he said he never would signals everything you need to know.

Apparently u believe everything you read and headlines made by corporate media.

The Liberals Passed the Corporate tax cuts. Corporate Tax cuts are part of the Liberal Doctrine. To say they are not is Hypocritical. The NDP has opposed the Corporate Tax cuts. Not the Liberals. The Liberals are hypocritical enough to say they are against these tax cuts, even though there is nothing they can do about them.

A traditional Liberal Campaign would be to rage against the Corportate Tax Cuts they supported, then get into office and offer their own brand of NEW and BETTER Corporate Tax Cuts and leave the current corporate tax cuts in place.

The Liberals cannot be trusted on this file. It is not imporatant to them, and it undermines their corporate base.

Campaigning and spinning is one thing. It may work in the electoral game. Only during an election would the Liberals be against corporate tax cuts, especially ones they can do nothing about, let alone voted for.

Integrity is another thing. There isn't any track record to believe the Liberals on Corporate tax cuts.

The LPC can throw all the mud at Layton to inspire their base, or try to stir up the mud in the NDP rank and file. However, I would suggest that the NDPers I communicate with, are more of the mindset of Punked, when it comes to the Integrity of the NDP and Jack Layton.

Only Liberals seem to have their tits in a knot over what the NDP does. The NDP rank and file, well, they appear like they are going to the polls.

[Saipan]

Just like everything Harper does - that and the NDP (you have something in common) - everything Harper does is to screw the centre-left.

I remember like it was yesterday, Chretien laughing that the Right is split and Reform and Conservatives cannot agree on anything..

Interesting how Karma works.