The end of the empire of Japan

[GostHacked]

The world might want to think about getting it's ass over there to do something about our plight.

That should have been done from day 1. But Japan did not want any outside help. Their xenophobic nature does not really allow for the outside help.

And this is almost 3 years on. Anyone thinking this is not a big deal is really not looking at what is going on and what they have NOT been able to accomplish so far. THey still have not been able to assess the cores. All their machinery going in there is not hardened enough. Thy need to develop robotics that can stand the radiation to even know what they are dealing with.

What do we do when another plant goes into meltdown?

[eyeball]

We pass the popcorn, apparently.

[GostHacked]

They have no idea what the hell they are doing. They have no idea how bad it is ... running out of space to build storage units for the radioactive water. Which some are leaking back into the ground and flowing downhill under the reactors and then out to see. The water table there is contaminated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePWGypoGQ0c

[GostHacked]

Storage tanks are leaking and not built properly. Ground water is getting contaminated.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/slipshod-tanks-at-fukushima-raise-concern-about-more-leaks-contamination-1.1533606

TOKYO -- When tons of radioactive water leaked from a storage tank at Fukushima's crippled nuclear power plant and other containers hurriedly put up by the operator encountered problems, Yoshitatsu Uechi was not surprised. He wonders if one of the tanks he built will be next.

He's an auto mechanic. He was a tour-bus driver for a while. He had no experience building tanks or working at a nuclear plant, but for six months last year, he was part of the team frantically trying to create new places for contaminated water to go.

Uechi and co-workers were under such pressure to build tanks quickly that they did not wait for dry conditions to apply anti-rust coating over bolts and around seams as they were supposed to; they did the work even in rain or snow. Sometimes the concrete foundation they laid for the tanks came out bumpy. Sometimes the workers saw tanks being used to store water before they were even finished.

[GostHacked]

Until very recently, TEPCO had plans to fire up reators 5 and 6 as the Fukushima site.

A move the government is taking is allowing some information about Fukushima, Japan state secrets.

Removing the fuel rods will take another year, at best, and the decom of the sit to last 40 years.

Another plan to alleviate the problem with long term storage of contaminated water stored at the site is to simply let it flow into the pacific ocean. These guys are idiots.

The Pacific ocean is contaminated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfej1KV_wL0

Edited December 5, 2013 by GostHacked

[TimG]

Another plan to alleviate the problem with long term storage of contaminated water stored at the site is to simply let it flow into the pacific ocean. These guys are idiots.

No. The only idiots are people whose brains turn to mush when they hear the word "radiation".

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/12/04/national/iaea-says-tepco-should-consider-water-release/#.UqCnCcRDvLk

A team of experts sent by the International Atomic Energy Agency suggested Wednesday that Tokyo Electric Power Co. should consider discharging toxic water from the Fukushima No. 1 plant into the ocean after lowering the level of radioactive materials to less than the legal limit.

The proposal by the international nuclear watchdog was part of its call on Tepco to improve its management of the increasing amount of radioactive water at the crippled facility and ensure a safe decommissioning process.

Such a step would draw an angry reaction from people, including commercial fishermen, worried about further contamination of the Pacific.

“Controlled discharge is a regular practice at all nuclear facilities in the world,” Juan Carlos Lentijo, director of the IAEA Division of Nuclear Fuel Cycle and Waste Technology, told a news conference in Tokyo as the team wrapped up its inspection of the plant.

Edited December 5, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

TimG

You have to understand a few things here. Japan is passing laws to make some of the Fukushima information 'state secret'. Meaning no one will know how bad this truly is. TEPCO should be brought up on crimes against humanity.

If they have another good quake in the next 10 yeas, it will make this site much worse than we see now. They will take 40 years to clean the site. If they get it clean at all.

It takes less than an hour for a civilian to get over 100uSv (yearly allowed dose) those workers are allowed up to 50x that level. Meaning guaranteed cancer in some form.

They have no more room to store the water laced with tritium so instead of trying to clean the water, they will simply let it out into the ocean on top of the 300+ tonnes a day that has been seeping from the site for over 1000 days.

TEPCO had all intentions of firing reactor 5 and 6 up again at Fukushima.

The fuel rod removal is a joke and a PR stunt. All 4 reactor buildings were damaged enough to compromise the structures, leaving the fuel rods exposed to the air. So with #4 where the most fuel rods were stored lost water containment.

Reactor 3 blew it's lid and all those spent fuel rods stored on TOP of the reactor went scattered into the air, into the ocean and the land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_effects_from_the_Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster

Preliminary dose-estimation reports by WHO and the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) indicate that future health effects due to the accident, as in the Chernobyl accident, may not be statistically detectable.[10] After the Chernobyl accident, only 0.1% of the 110,000 cleanup workers surveyed have so far developed leukemia, although not all cases resulted from the accident.[11] However at the Fukushima nuclear plant, 167 plant workers received radiation doses that slightly elevate their risk of developing cancer.[12][13][14

50x the allowable civilian dose means 'slightly' to them. Since no studies done on the link of nuclear radiation to cancer, they can claim dependability and say that nuclear radiation is no big deal. These people are outright lying.

My giger counter detects background radiation with an average of about 0.08 uSv. I have to reset the unit back twice to 0 after it reaches 50 uSv. If 100 uSv is the allowable dose, then I am already clocking in at about 150uSv for the year. Standing at Fukushima I can get that dose in an hour. In comparison the workers can be exposed up to 5000 uSv. Severely increasing your chance of getting cancer of some kind.

North American officials decided soon after the accident to raise the allowable limits of radiation exposure. That seems really f'n convenient. I question that move.

http://www.enviroreporter.com/2013/07/epa-nukes-radiation-rules/

Site wont let me copy paste for a quote, but take a look. Now why would they raise the limits right after Fukushima? Since nothing can be done about it, they simply raise the allowable limit. This means cancers are already on the rise in Japan and on the North America west coast.

Also nothing about Fukushima tells me they have things under control.

[TimG]

Japan is passing laws to make some of the Fukushima information 'state secret'.

Complete BS. The secrecy laws are to protect military secrets. The law is being opposed by the opposition parties because its wording is too vague and they fear abuse. To make the leap that it will be used to keep what is going on at Fukushima secret is pure speculation at this point and I doubt they could get away with it because of domestic opposition and the need to restart the nuclear plants asap.

Also nothing about Fukushima tells me they have things under control.

Everything I have read is they have a mess they are trying to clean and they are making slow but steady progress. The hyperventilating from people like you who oppose nuclear power no matter what and are looking for excuses to hyperventilate does not mean that things are "out of control". Edited December 6, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

TEPCO has no clue what they are doing here TimG. Everything they have done so far simply gives more evidence to their criminal activity. TEPCO was fined before at their nuke plants for safety violations.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-nuclear-operator-idUSTRE72B1B420110312

In 2002, the president of the country's largest power utility was forced to resign along with four other senior executives, taking responsibility for suspected falsification of nuclear plant safety records.

The company was suspected of 29 cases involving falsified repair records at nuclear reactors. It had to stop operations at five reactors, including the two damaged in the latest tremor, for safety inspections.

A few years later it ran into trouble again over accusations of falsifying data.

In late 2006, the government ordered TEPCO to check past data after it reported that it had found falsification of coolant water temperatures at its Fukushima Daiichi plant in 1985 and 1988, and that the tweaked data was used in mandatory inspections at the plant, which were completed in October 2005.

And in 2007, TEPCO reported that it had found more past data falsifications, though this time it did not have to close any of its plants.

And as for your military bit with the state secret bill dealing with only the military, you are wrong.

http://enenews.com/insiders-state-secrets-bill-meant-to-suppress-fukushima-news-japan-public-stunned-citizens-could-face-years-in-prison-toxic-leaks-into-ocean-seem-unstoppable-must-plug-information-leakage-ins

http://rt.com/news/japan-state-secrets-law-334/

“Information on the vulnerability of nuclear power plants could be classified as special secrets, along with plans on how to guard the plants,” Yutaka Saito, a lawyer and a member of the Japan Federation of Bar Associations' task force on the bill, told Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/24/us-japan-secrecy-idUSBRE99N1EC20131024

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's government is planning a state secrets act that critics say could curtail public access to information on a wide range of issues, including tensions with China and the Fukushima nuclear crisis.

You don't have a clue TimG. Not one.

[TimG]

TEPCO was fined before at their nuke plants for safety violations.

These issues were public knowledge before the crisis. I remember hearing of them. It don't see any connection between these violations and the problems which occurred at fukushima which were entirely a result of an inadequate tsunami barrier.

And as for your military bit with the state secret bill dealing with only the military, you are wrong.

Are you are delusional if you think that every detail of a nuclear plant design should be made public so terrorists and spies can take advantage of them. As I said before, the Japanese public needs to have confidence in the government management of the nuclear plants before they can be restarted - keeping information secret (because they cant hide the fact that they are keeping information secret) would make that task impossible. At this point you are simply hyperventilating.

[GostHacked]

You don't see a connection between TEPCO's past lies with current lies about Fukushima?

HA. Really?

[TimG]

You don't see a connection between TEPCO's past lies with current lies about Fukushima?

Lies? All I see are unsubstantiated claims by someone who desperately wants to justify their irrational fear of nuclear power. Obviously, Japan needs much better oversight of their nuclear reactor program. Lapses that were no big deal before the accident are now a very big deal even though the lapses were not in any way connected to the accident. Perhaps one of the most important thing is old reactors need to be closed and new reactors need to be built - this requires objective analysis - not irrational panic.

What gets forgotten in the Fukushima story: 4 nuclear facilities were hit by the quake/tsunami - only one had any serious problems. The problems at Fukushima are entirely the result of an old reactor design + inadequate tsunami protection.

Edited December 6, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

Lies? All I see are unsubstantiated claims by someone who desperately wants to justify their irrational fear of nuclear power. Obviously, Japan needs much better oversight of their nuclear reactor program. Lapses that were no big deal before the accident are now a very big deal even though the lapses were not in any way connected to the accident. Perhaps one of the most important thing is old reactors need to be closed and new reactors need to be built - this requires objective analysis - not irrational panic.

Oh TimG, how blind you are. Remember it took TECPO six months to admit that not only one, but they had three meltdowns. At first they denied meltdowns ever happened. They have a history of lying about important information that the public needs to know. It's downright criminal.

The past lies may not be connected to the Fuku disaster, but TEPCO did in fact lie about the severity of Fukushima. They have a track record of this, so while it may not be connected, their actions are 100% criminal in covering up and delaying important information to the public.

The cover up continues. This demands international speedy involvement. We cannot have this site continue to spew out radioactivity for the next 40 years while they clean it up.

You are out to lunch on this one. I keep posting the info and you cannot post anything to counter it.

What do you think about TEPCO's decision to fire up reactor 5 and 6 at the Fukushima plant? You think that is a wise move? Recently they decided to not go with that option. DURRRRRRRRRRR. Until a couple weeks ago they had ALL intentions of getting those two reactors back up and running.

[TimG]

Oh TimG, how blind you are. Remember it took TECPO six months to admit that not only one, but they had three meltdowns. At first they denied meltdowns ever happened.

Who cares? Your obsession with meltdowns is part of your general irrational thought process when it comes to nuclear power. Meltdowns have never been the end of the world - all it means is it is a long harder to clean up.

The past lies may not be connected to the Fuku disaster, but TEPCO did in fact lie about the severity of Fukushima

Again - so what? Hindsight is 20-20 and it is given a probability distribution they choose to be optimistic. Choosing the most optimistic end of a probability distribution is not a lie. In fact, it is the obligation of people in authority to be optimistic in order to avoid creating a panic.

You are out to lunch on this one. I keep posting the info and you cannot post anything to counter it.

You keep posting irrational nonsense which I ignore. When you started ranting about radioactive water discharges I did post a response that showed that not only was this the recommendation of INEA but that is it standard practice at nuclear plants around the world. You ignored that rebuttal.

What do you think about TEPCO's decision to fire up reactor 5 and 6 at the Fukushima plant? You think that is a wise move? Recently they decided to not go with that option. DURRRRRRRRRRR. Until a couple weeks ago they had ALL intentions of getting those two reactors back up and running.

You have zero information on the state of those reactors which means you have nothing useful to say about them. Edited December 6, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

Who cares?

You can simply stop posting if you don't care. I will continue to put up information regarding Fukushima.

[TimG]

You can simply stop posting if you don't care. I will continue to put up information regarding Fukushima.

You are being obtuse. Please explain why we should care whether a meltdown occurred or not? All it really means is the fuel has melted which means the clean up will take longer. It does not mean that any action taken to contain the mess would be different because of the "meltdown".

[Bonam]

It takes less than an hour for a civilian to get over 100uSv (yearly allowed dose) those workers are allowed up to 50x that level. Meaning guaranteed cancer in some form.

I know you mentioned in another thread that you aren't any good at math, but listen up.

100 uSv = 0.1 mSv

50x that is 5 mSv.

Maximum allowed dose for a scientist working at a research lab in Canada is 5 mSv/year. That's no emergency, no urgent need, just a level determined to be safe.

Statistics show that an individual who gets 5 mSv/year, every single year of their lives, for the duration of their career (~40 years), for a total of 200 mSv, has a 4% increased chance of dying from cancer.

That's straight from the training manual where I worked at TRIUMF, Canada's National Lab for Particle & Nuclear Physics.

One technician who I knew who was close to retirement, and had worked in nuclear labs and reactors his entire career before modern low dose limits were implemented, had a lifetime total dose of ~4 Sv (that's 4000 mSv). At the age of 64, he did not have cancer and was entirely healthy.

Typical background radiation just from living on the Earth's surface is on order of 1-3 mSv/year, with some areas having as much as 10 mSv/year of natural background radiation (from natural sources, primarily Radon which is a byproduct of the natural radioactive decay of the Uranium 238 present throughout the Earth).

For reference, radiation dose required to do short term / acute harm (organ or blood damage, radiation burns, etc) is on order of 1-5 Sv (another 200-1000x higher than the 5 mSv), and it must all happen in a short time period.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

Thanks Bonam, My math is weak, I will admit. But overall this situation is going to continue for another 40 years. They do not have this under control at all. One thing that gets me is that reports often site the short lived ones instead of the long term ones like uranium, plutonium, cesium. Those are the cancer causing ones as they are ionized radiation, affecting the DNA.

But the short burst happened each time one of those reactor buildings exploded. Containment compromised, fuel rod bits scattered all over the place, cooling pool containment was compromised and I will put money on it that rods were exposed to the air causing instant criticality in some (maybe all) of he remaining fuel rods.

Reactor #3. Fuel pool 100% compromised in 4 out of the 6 reactors on site (5 and 6 were not running). #3 lost all water containment in the explosion. Parts of fuel rods were found up to two miles from the site. And since we have 3 full meltdowns they still have not been able to determine if and where the molten cores are. I don't trust their readings and reports when they say Fuku is safe and under control. This is something the world has never seen before, and we run the risk of this happening again when another disaster hits and takes out a nuke plant's ability to cool itself.

The cloud from the explosion went over 2000 feet into the air. That is a lot of energy to throw those huge reinforced concrete blocks and iron support beams into the air that high. Containment 100% compromised.Rods were exposed to the air.

[TimG]

But overall this situation is going to continue for another 40 years.

Probably. It is a huge mess.

They do not have this under control at all.

The critical incident is over. They are gradually removing fuel from reactor 4 and moving it somewhere safer in case another earthquake hits. The leaking water was a problem that they should have addressed more aggressively sooner but it is not a huge issue in any case since the water will be diluted by the ocean.

It is an incident that can be easily avoided in the future with reactor designs that are already operating today. It was a unfortunate tragedy but it is worth reminding you yet again: 4 nuclear facilities were hit by the quake/tsunami - only Fukushima had problems. Nuclear power is safe and can be made even safer.

Edited December 7, 2013 by TimG

[GostHacked]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/12/31/u-s-sailors-sue-japanese-over-radiation/

Unless the USS RR has a radiation leaking problem, which is another issue altogether. US sailors suing Japan/Tepco.

As reported by the AP, the sailors are charging that the company lied about the high level of radiation in the area where they were carrying out a humanitarian mission after the tsunami-triggered reactor crisis. The sailors served on the carrier USS Ronald Reagan in the wake of the earthquake and tsunami.

“The sailors claim the Japanese government repeatedly said there was no danger to the carrier crew ‘all the while lying through their teeth about the reactor meltdowns’ so rescuers would ‘rush into an unsafe area’ ” and that this caused these sailors to be exposed to dangerous levels of radiation.

We need to make sure we are protecting our troops from all dangers, including the strange, non-intuitive aspects of nuclear.

[GostHacked]

Now this is getting attention on Fox.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/20/sickened-by-service-more-us-sailors-claim-cancer-from-helping-at-fukushima/

They and 49 other U.S. Navy members who served aboard the Reagan and sister ship the USS Essex now trace illnesses including thyroid and testicular cancers, leukemia and brain tumors to the time spent aboard the massive ship, whose desalination system pulled in seawater that was used for drinking, cooking and bathing. In a lawsuit filed against Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), the plaintiffs claim the power company delayed telling the U.S. Navy the tsunami had caused a nuclear meltdown, sending huge amounts of contaminated water into the sea and, ultimately, into the ship's water system.

“At our level, we weren’t told anything,” Plym told FoxNews.com. “We were told everything was OK.”

And we are still being told it is all OK. You are going to see a rise in cancer rates in Japan, as well as the west coast of North America.

[Robinwilliams]

The Empire of Japan was an empire and world power. Here we additionally uncover a far reaching record of how Japan's pioneers were ready to hazard finish destruction to save the country's existing request. You describe in portion the persistent flow of new data to both the military and government administrations of Japan and the United States. Find more detail about National News headlines. see here. theindianrepublic.com .

[WWWTT]

To much to clean up - to much to rebuild...suffering a recession along with large international debt...Japan is now offically back in the stone age..No one can imagine the extent of the material damage - not to mention environmental damage due to human junk washed back into the sea after the wave returns from whence it came...Empires rise and fall...Yesterday Japan fell...Nature builds you up and nature takes you down - the lord gives and the lord takes it away...Looks like the hand of God via mother nature has brought Japan to it's knees - a culture were status - pride and money - along with a sucide rate that is horrific amoungst slightly failed students does not deserve to exist...and now it is gone.

Oleg is banned but I'll use the opener still to comment

Guess again buddy!

http://ca.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7osieLlSrTEAO0QXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnZlZnRlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=13quke7l0/EXP=1387915426/**http%3a//japandailypress.com/pm-abe-says-its-his-historic-mission-to-change-japans-constitution-1333768/

WWWTT

[Rocky Road]

Not too funny that the prime minister of Japan visited a war shrine on Christmas.

[TimG]

Not too funny that the prime minister of Japan visited a war shrine on Christmas.

This is what the Japanese PM said:

The statement looked rather unusual for a politician known for his hawkish, nationalist views. Abe repeatedly emphasized his visit was not designed to “pay homage to war criminals,” and reiterated that Japan should never wage war again.

“Some people criticize the visit to Yasukuni as paying homage to war criminals, but the purpose of my visit today . . . is to report before the souls of the war dead how my administration has worked for one year and to renew the pledge that Japan must never wage war again.

It is quite bizarre that that South Korea and China obsess so much about this issue. It says more about the political leadership in those countries than it does about Japan.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/12/26/national/abes-visit-to-yasukuni-to-further-incite-hard-liners-in-china-south-korea/

Personally, I think it was a dumb move by the Japanese PM but it does not have the meaning that South Korea and China claim it has.

More comment from the G&M:

But to Mr. Abe, “going to Yasukuni is like Christians going to Christian mass or Muslims going to pilgrimage at the Hajj. It’s something that has emotional meaning,” Mr. Dujarric said.

In China, meanwhile, social media users found parallels between Chinese leaders congregating at Beijing’s Great Hall of the People to commemorate the 120th anniversary of Mao’s birthday and Abe’s shrine visit, both on the same day. “One side is bowing to Mao in the memorial hall, while the other side is bowing to the ghosts of the shrine. National sentiment is built up in this way,” wrote user mangmang on Sina Weibo.

It is worth noting that more Chinese died at the hand of Mao than at the Japanese yet the Chinese think nothing of honouring him and would likely take great offence if outsiders told the Chinese that they should not honour Mao because of the harms he caused. Edited December 26, 2013 by TimG