The end of the empire of Japan

[Post To The Left]

The EPA also said the air was safe in the days following the 9/11 tragedy. That turned out to be a lie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency_September_11_attacks_pollution_controversy

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/08/earlyshow/main1985804.shtml

So if officials can lie about that, what makes you think that you are being told the truth regarding the Fukushima plant?

I'm not sure that I should be the one to tell you this but ... America and Japan aren't the same country. American officials aren't the TEPCO or even Japanese environmental officials ... have they even released a statement?

PS - Contrails are a joke and there is no Santa Claus ... find your tinfoil hat.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Post To The Left

[Post To The Left]

It might be zero now, but radiation takes time to manifest, and it can in horrible ways. There is a documentary called The Children of Chernobyl, and I've seen some photo essays on the subject. It can and will affect offspring. That was also a result from the two atomic bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

You're comparing two atomic bombs to this crisis? Crazy. What about the nuclear tests in America? The radiating of cities next to the Vancouver border? Why aren't you citing these in your "scientific opinions"?

Children were affected in Chernobyl because they drank milk from an area which was covered with I-131 from a HUGE explosion from Chernobyl. They've already stopped the collection of milk, not just from the exlcusion zone, but the whole area. So even if that was a threat (It's not because there was never an explosion, to spread nuclear material, like the Chernobyl explosion) it has been negated.

[GostHacked]

I'm not sure that I should be the one to tell you this but ... America and Japan aren't the same country. American officials aren't the TEPCO or even Japanese environmental officials ... have they even released a statement?

PS - Contrails are a joke and there is no Santa Claus ... find your tinfoil hat.

I guess you missed those articles that showed the cover up from Tepco officials regarding safety standards and other violations at the Fukushima plant.

Here are some more..

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20021004a5.html

Scandal-plagued Tokyo Electric Power Co. may have tried to cover up an unstable air-sealing system at the No. 1 reactor container at its Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant before a routine government inspection in 1991, sources at Hitachi Ltd. said Thursday.

The air-tight seal of a reactor container is the last line of defense in preventing radiation leaks from becoming serious accidents, meaning sealing tests are a priority in government safety inspections.

According to the sources, internal company documents suggest Tepco tried to manipulate data right up until the government inspection of the sealing system began. Hitachi conducted prep tests for the Tepco inspection.

They said Hitachi uncovered the documents during an internal search that was carried out after similar documents were found in September regarding a routine inspection in 1992.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/commentary/view/bungling-cover-ups-define-tepco

In 1989, Sugaoka received an order that horrified him: edit out footage showing cracks in plant steam pipes in video being submitted to regulators. Sugaoka alerted his superiors in the Tokyo Electric Power Co, but nothing happened. He decided to go public in 2000. Three TEPCO executives lost their jobs.

The legacy of scandals and cover-ups over Japan’s half-century reliance on nuclear power has strained its credibility with the public. That mistrust has been renewed this past week with the crisis at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi plant. No evidence has emerged of officials hiding information in this catastrophe. But the vagueness and scarcity of details offered by the government and TEPCO—and news that seems to grow worse each day—are fueling public anger and frustration.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/03/17/general-as-japan-earthquake-nuclear-scandals_8360783.html

TOKYO -- Behind Japan's escalating nuclear crisis sits a scandal-ridden energy industry in a comfy relationship with government regulators often willing to overlook safety lapses.

Leaks of radioactive steam and workers contaminated with radiation are just part of the disturbing catalog of accidents that have occurred over the years and been belatedly reported to the public, if at all.

[GostHacked]

You're comparing two atomic bombs to this crisis? Crazy. What about the nuclear tests in America? The radiating of cities next to the Vancouver border? Why aren't you citing these in your "scientific opinions"?

Hmm, maybe I should.

Children were affected in Chernobyl because they drank milk from an area which was covered with I-131 from a HUGE explosion from Chernobyl. They've already stopped the collection of milk, not just from the exlcusion zone, but the whole area. So even if that was a threat (It's not because there was never an explosion, to spread nuclear material, like the Chernobyl explosion) it has been negated.

And you stated that the death toll would be about a thousand people. Keep calling me crazy though.

Also all that nuclear testing underground and in the air, ... all over the planet must have taken it's toll somehow.

Don't worry, everything is fine, the government will tell you want to think.

[Sir Bandelot]

So if officials can lie about that, what makes you think that you are being told the truth regarding the Fukushima plant?

A fine example of why "faith" in the system has been disemboweled. Given enough time, liars must eventually destroy themselves, and maybe everyone else that's nearby, too. The greater faith

[Oleg Bach]

There are "heros" sleeping on lead matts inside the inevitable death chamber that these nuclear plants have become...There is garbage strewn from one end of Japan to the other...the water is and will continue to be un-consumable...There stock market is faining being alive..when in fact it is dead.. Building up an empire on top of a volcano believing that some how you can over come nature and God is a grave error...no empire can with stand the wrath of nature...either human nature or natural nature.

[Post To The Left]

There are "heros" sleeping on lead matts inside the inevitable death chamber that these nuclear plants have become...There is garbage strewn from one end of Japan to the other...the water is and will continue to be un-consumable...There stock market is faining being alive..when in fact it is dead.. Building up an empire on top of a volcano believing that some how you can over come nature and God is a grave error...no empire can with stand the wrath of nature...either human nature or natural nature.

Yet it has survived ... for thousands of years ... on top of this volcano.

[WIP]

Here's something I didn't know before...and something that pro-nuke propagandists would rather not talk about:

Chernobyl: A Nuclear Accident With No End?

It seems that the Chernobyl Nuclear Disaster wasn't permanently fixed when thousands of conscripted Soviet soldiers and "volunteers" built a giant steel and concrete sarcophagus to entomb the damaged reactor:

Laurin Dodd, an American engineer, has come to the site to talk to VOA. He is directing an American-led project to build a new, modern sarcophagus.

"The structure itself is almost a house of cards," says Dodd. "It was built with some robotics and under extreme conditions. And there are large gaping holes. If you go inside, you will see holes the size of picture windows with small mammals going in and out, birds flying in and out."

As scaffolding props up the old ventilation stack, Dodd races to keep the nuclear genie in the bottle.

"There is almost 200 tons of radioactive material still inside the old sarcophagus," said Dodd, who has worked here off and on since 1995. "And the existing sarcophagus was built in six months in 1986 under, I should say, fairly heroic conditions and it had a design life of 10 years - that’s almost 25 years ago."

Built on rails and rising high enough to cover the Statue of Liberty, the new containment structure is to be the largest moveable structure in the world. On April 19, Ukraine officials will hold a donor conference in Kyiv to raise $1 billion to build a structure designed to contain Chernobyl’s nuclear mess for another century.

As authorities in Japan may soon discover, big nuclear accidents have a defined beginning. It is unclear when they ever end.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Chernobyl-A-Nuclear-Accident-With-No-End-118943489.html

[WIP]

A fine example of why "faith" in the system has been disemboweled. Given enough time, liars must eventually destroy themselves, and maybe everyone else that's nearby, too. The greater faith

What I find the most alarming about this story, is how once again a great disaster shines light on men who throw caution to the wind (just like the BP Gulf Disaster) in the higher interests of cutting costs and earning greater profits. If would be fine if it was their lives at stake, but other people pay the price in sickness and early death....on the bright side, word just came over the CNN Newswire that BP is going to face manslaughter charges for the deaths of the 11 oil rig workers who were killed when the Global Horizon exploded.

[bush_cheney2004]

....on the bright side, word just came over the CNN Newswire that BP is going to face manslaughter charges for the deaths of the 11 oil rig workers who were killed when the Global Horizon exploded.

Yea...let's hope that those evil TEPCO power plant owners and workers are charged with manslaughter too....that will fix 'em good...those greedy selfish bastards making electricity for profit....oh the humanity!

[WIP]

There is an universal level of public disbelief in the west due to the hyperbole reporting of Western Media. Almost everyday there is a headline story about how the Fukushima reactors are blowing up "in hours (Mar 11)", "in 24hrs", "48hrs (Mar 15)". These deadlines pass so the newspapers make up a new deadline or some sort of inflamatory news story about how it's worse than Chernobyl.

And I recall many real nuclear experts voicing concern that the high amounts of radioactive iodine indicated that fuel was melting and a meltdown was possible; but the probabilities were unknown because there was no information on the condition of the fuel inside the reactors. Just because one of the reactors didn't explode or they didn't start going through meltdown until recent days is not over-reacting by Reuters.... it's just pointing out what the worst case scenarios could be.

TEPCO has kept the situation under control when EVERYTHING has gone wrong at the plant. The question isn't why there is a universal level of public disbelief of TEPCO rather why there is universal level of public disbelief of the western media.

Yeah, everything really sounds under control! So why are radiation levels continuing to rise if TEPCO has it all under control?

Radiation in seawater at new high

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says 180 becquerels per cubic centimeter of radioactive iodine-131 has been detected in seawater sampled on Wednesday at a location 330 meters south of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

The level is 4,385 times higher than the legal standard, and far above the 3,355-times level detected on Tuesday.

Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:06 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/31_17.html

Maybe the contributors to this Reuters analysis of the disaster are closer to the truth:

Analysis: Japan's nuclear nightmare set to run and run

The ongoing nuclear crisis will continue to take its toll on the nation's economy, said Jesper Koll, director of equity research at JPMorgan Securities in Tokyo.

"The worst-case scenario is that this drags on not one month or two months or six months, but for two years, or indefinitely," Koll said.

[WIP]

Yea...let's hope that those evil TEPCO power plant owners and workers are charged with manslaughter too....that will fix 'em good...those greedy selfish bastards making electricity for profit....oh the humanity!

And why shouldn't there be manslaughter charges if there is evidence to back up charges that safety reports were falsified and some tests and inspections were ignored. The company didn't exactly have a spotless record before the disaster.

[bush_cheney2004]

And why shouldn't there be manslaughter charges if there is evidence to back up charges that safety reports were falsified and some tests and inspections were ignored. The company didn't exactly have a spotless record before the disaster.

Aren't you going to wait for somebody to die from direct causes at the power plant first, or is that just a formality? Or perhaps you are blaming TEPCO for the earthquake and tsunami too.

Edited March 31, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

Aren't you going to wait for somebody to die from direct causes at the power plant first, or is that just a formality? Or perhaps you are blaming TEPCO for the earthquake and tsunami too.

How can someone as smart and intelligent as you post such drivel at times?

[TimG]

How can someone as smart and intelligent as you post such drivel at times?

What drivel? No one has died from the nuclear incident yet WIP drones on as if they have.

[WIP]

Aren't you going to wait for somebody to die from direct causes at the power plant first, or is that just a formality? Or perhaps you are blaming TEPCO for the earthquake and tsunami too.

You were the one who raised the point! If there are deaths as a result of this disaster, and evidence of criminal negligence, then manslaughter charges, or the Japanese equivalent, should apply...just like with BP.

[TimG]

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/16/134585523/Chernobyls-Hot-Zone-Holds-Some-Surprises

WERTHEIMER: Now, as I understand it, you're not finding long-term genetic problems.

Dr. BAKER: We have not been able to document a genetic load, a mutational load that has increased. I'm not telling you that it's not there, but I'm telling you that it's small.

...

WERTHEIMER: Hm. Do you think we should rethink a relationship to radiation as humans? I mean, do you think we should be as afraid of it as we clearly are?

Dr. BAKER: There's a World Health Organization that said that 150,000 ladies who were pregnant at the Chernobyl meltdown had an elective abortion. And the data for the children that were born to the women that did not have an elective abortion that were pregnant in the same time and in the same space do not show an elevated birth-defect rate. I think fear was the greatest yes, I think we need to rethink the fear factor.

Edited March 31, 2011 by TimG

[GostHacked]

What drivel? No one has died from the nuclear incident yet WIP drones on as if they have.

Yet being the key word. Are you willing to go help them? If not, why not?

[bush_cheney2004]

You were the one who raised the point! If there are deaths as a result of this disaster, and evidence of criminal negligence, then manslaughter charges, or the Japanese equivalent, should apply...just like with BP.

Gosh...that's very nice of you...you might even grant them a fair trial, eh?

[TimG]

Yet being the key word. Are you willing to go help them? If not, why not?

You have a real problem seperating fact from fevered fanatasy. If someone dies then we can discuss the implications. Until then it is rather pointless to speculate on deaths that will likely never occurr.

[GostHacked]

You have a real problem seperating fact from fevered fanatasy. If someone dies then we can discuss the implications. Until then it is rather pointless to speculate on deaths that will likely never occurr.

Radiation sickness takes some time to manifest. It's not a question of IF, it's a question of when.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/japan-lost-race-save-nuclear-reactor

The radioactive core in a reactor at the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on to a concrete floor, experts say, raising fears of a major release of radiation at the site.

At first it was , no there was no way the reactors were compromised. Then it was, well there is a possibility, then more than likely, and now it appears it has.

Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling-water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at Fukushima, told the Guardian workers at the site appeared to have "lost the race" to save the reactor, but said there was no danger of a Chernobyl-style catastrophe.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/31/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T2

Tokyo (CNN) -- The levels of radiation in ocean waters off Japan's embattled Fukushima Daiichi plant continue to skyrocket, the nation's nuclear safety agency said Thursday, with no clear sense of what's causing the spike or how to stop it.

The amount of the radioactive iodine-131 isotope in the samples, taken Wednesday some 330 meters (361 yards) into the Pacific Ocean, has surged to 4,385 times above the regulatory limit.

Yet amounts of the cesium-137 isotope -- which, by comparison, has a 30-year "half life" -- have also soared, with a Wednesday afternoon sample showing levels 527 times the standard.

"That's the one I am worried about," said Michael Friedlander, a U.S.-based nuclear engineer, explaining cesium might linger much longer in the ecosystem. "Plankton absorbs the cesium, the fish eat the plankton, the bigger fish eat smaller fish -- so every step you go up the food chain, the concentration of cesium gets higher."

And then we have this.

Still, authorities don't know where the highly radioactive water is coming from or how it reached the sea.

I mean anyone can put two and two together. Hmmm the reactor buildings blew. The containment pools no longer hold water, and radioactive water is seeping out into the ocean and they have no idea why or how. Really??

Again people, use your brain. The information is all there in many of the news articles, read between the lines.

But back to the first article in this post.

"What is fundamentally disturbing the public is reports of drinking water one day being above some limit, and then a day or two later it's suddenly safe to drink. People don't know if the first instance was alarmist or whether the second one was untrue," said Gale.

"My recommendation is they should consider establishing a small commission to independently convert the data into comprehensible units of risk for the public so people know what they are dealing with and can take sensible decisions," he added

Proper information is needed for people to make better decisions. I believe I had said this before. Some here see the real danger here, and some are quite blase about it and are relying on the officials to tell you how bad it is.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/31/japans-nuclear-rescuers-inevitable-die-weeks/

The so-called Fukushima 50, the team of brave plant workers struggling to prevent a meltdown to four reactors critically damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, are being repeatedly exposed to dangerously high radioactive levels as they attempt to bring vital cooling systems back online.

But the cooling systems seem to be compromised as well. The sea water kind of did that correct?

Speaking tearfully through an interpreter by phone, the mother of a 32-year-old worker said: “My son and his colleagues have discussed it at length and they have committed themselves to die if necessary to save the nation.

“He told me they have accepted they will all probably die from radiation sickness in the short term or cancer in the long-term.”

The woman spoke to Fox News on the condition of anonymity because, she said, plant workers had been asked by management not to communicate with the media or share details with family members in order to minimize public panic.

These brave guys are heroes. I hope they are memorialized somehow for their efforts..

[GostHacked]

I was wondering about the other nuclear facility, and looks like we may have problems there as well

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/30/japan.daini/?hpt=T2

The Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant is about 10 kilometers (6 miles) from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, where workers have been scrambling to stave off a meltdown since the March 11 earthquake and tsunami knocked out cooling systems there.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. owns both plants.

After the dual disasters, Japanese authorities also detected cooling-system problems at the Fukushima Daini plant, and those living within a 10-kilometer radius (6 miles) of Fukushima Daini were ordered to evacuate as a precaution.

Hopefully this is nothing to worry about. But the officials track record with regards to releasing timely proper information has been pretty bad.

[TimG]

Radiation sickness takes some time to manifest. It's not a question of IF, it's a question of when.

It is a question of IF. No one has been exposed to doses that exceed the recommended maximums for emergency worker (250mSv). On a handful have even exceeded the normal maximum dose (100mSv).

I mean anyone can put two and two together. Hmmm the reactor buildings blew. The containment pools no longer hold water, and radioactive water is seeping out into the ocean and they have no idea why or how. Really??

Obviously the situation is much more complicated that your simplistic views suggest. They have no reason to keep the reason secret if they really knew.

Proper information is needed for people to make better decisions. I believe I had said this before. Some here see the real danger here, and some are quite blase about it and are relying on the officials to tell you how bad it is.

It is not so hard to understand. They was some rain a few hours before washed some radiated land into the water. That created pockets of radiated water which were measured.

These brave guys are heroes. I hope they are memorialized somehow for their efforts.

It is too soon to be writing anyone's memorial.

[weegie]

Shocking.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1

Tokyo (CNN) -- Another attempt by Japanese officials to stop the leaking of highly radioactive water from a nuclear reactor into the ocean failed Tuesday, the country's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.

A silica-based polymer dubbed "liquid glass" was pumped into the leaking shaft from below at reactor No. 2 of Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. Workers hoped that the substance would harden and fill gaps beneath the concrete that was poured into the shaft in a previous unsuccessful attempt, but the material did not set as hoped, NISA reported.

It was the latest of a series of setbacks Japanese authorities faced Tuesday, with the detection of radiation in a fish and news that water gushing from the nuclear plant into the Pacific had radiation levels more than millions of times above the regulatory limit.

Was this before or after they decided to release 11,000 tons of radioactive water into the ocean?

Experts say this is a fair assessment, given the likelihood the contamination should quickly dilute, especially if the tainted material is largely iodine-131, which loses half its radiation every eight days

Why just the focus on Iodine 131? Why not the Plutonium or the uranium, or the cesium? Those are the more dangerous elements and have a much longer environmental impact.