Left wing councillors vote against turfing TCHC board!

[Shwa]

Calling Ford supporters cement heads may indicate that you're out of ammo in the argument department, or it may just mean that you want to slander them by the by.

First of all I never called "Ford supporters" cement heads; secondly, I hardly think it is slander, at least not in any form that can be used legally; thirdly, calling someone a cement head is not necessarily an indication that someone is out of ammo in the argument department.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Shwa

[Shwa]

Expand on cement head. What does that include? name calling jsut slows down discussion. Please stop the name calling and focus on the issues please.

Cement heads are those members who simply follow the party line without any useful thinking about a matter. Dense. Thick. You see them all over the place. There was one on the news last night using all kinds of strong rhetoric to try and shame people for voting with what their conscience dictated. It was embarassing for the Mayor. Or at least it should have been.

[Mr.Canada]

Cement heads are those members who simply follow the party line without any useful thinking about a matter. Dense. Thick. You see them all over the place. There was one on the news last night using all kinds of strong rhetoric to try and shame people for voting with what their conscience dictated. It was embarassing for the Mayor. Or at least it should have been.

Perhaps people have looked at all the options available and still agree with Mayor Ford. The left seems to think that right wingers would become lefties if only they would read and listen to what the left is saying. Some people just don't agree with the left, I don't see why this is threatening to the left. For people to have difference of opinion.

[Shwa]

Perhaps people have looked at all the options available and still agree with Mayor Ford. The left seems to think that right wingers would become lefties if only they would read and listen to what the left is saying. Some people just don't agree with the left, I don't see why this is threatening to the left. For people to have difference of opinion.

The problem is, not all the options appeared to be publically available for those councillors to make a rational decision. It is one thing to agree with the Mayor on some decision or another when you have clear evidence before you; and quite another to simply go with the flow because the option of careful thought about an issue isn't available or ignored. The latter I would call a cement head.

[Keepitsimple]

Speak for yourself. I prefer careful oversight and correction rather than throwing people under the bus to satisfy some out-moded sense of righteousness.

There are times for reflection and there are times for action. People are tired of audits being swept under the rug. Leadership and culture are established at the top - and that includes the board. How can you NOT take immediate action when the Auditor General reports that:

Despite all that work and the millions of dollars spent on the MFP inquiry to prevent a similar disaster, the good folks at the Toronto Community Housing Corp. ignored every single bit of advice about the proper ways to acquire goods and services.

They also ignored all previous and subsequent recommendations from the city auditor on how to properly conduct business.

In my eight years as auditor general I have never seen such a blatant disregard, Toronto Auditor General Jeffrey Griffiths told the board before they resigned.

In his report, he said TCHC ignored the Bellamy Reports recommendations on procurement.

In other words, TCHC management and staff basically told taxpayers, Judge Denise Bellamy and the city auditor to go fly a kite, we run by our own rules, and operate at arms length. Catch us if you can.

Well, Griffiths first audit caught them red-handed.

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/rob_granatstein/2011/03/04/17497736.html

Edited March 9, 2011 by Keepitsimple

[Shwa]

There are times for reflection and there are times for action. People are tired of audits being swept under the rug. Leadership and culture are established at the top - and that includes the board. How can you NOT take immediate action when the Auditor General reports that:

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/rob_granatstein/2011/03/04/17497736.html

No, there is always time for reflection, enquiry and direction. Anyone who acts in the public interest without reflection is dangerous. The AG report made it to public, excellent. City Council could have spent a week or two, completed a discovery exercise and then acted with a measure of confidence in what direction is best for TCHC and the citizens of Toronto.

[CANADIEN]

Great, so you're saying his findings were accurate. So with all the inappropriate spending some think that those board members should keep their positions. Wow. The sense of entitlement is insane.

what is insane is that, as is usual with you, you launch baseless accusations against other posters.

The prudent and logical course of action for City Council is to review the findings of the auditor, determine what actions to take and implement them. Not to do a public lynching.

You are of course welcome to prove you don't know what you are talking about by saying that approve unethical waste of money, or that do not believe the Auditor, etc., etc., etc. You are even welcome to believe that anyone here will be your claim that you are speaking out of concern for the poor in Toronto.

Edited March 10, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Mr.Canada]

what is insane is that, as is usual with you, you launch baseless accusations against other posters.

The prudent and logical course of action for City Council is to review the findings of the auditor, determine what actions to take and implement them. Not to do a public lynching.

You are of course welcome to prove you don't know what you are talking about by saying that approve unethical waste of money, or that do not believe the Auditor, etc., etc., etc. You are even welcome to believe that anyone here will be your claim that you are speaking out of concern for the poor in Toronto.

I only go by what is posted by other posters. I base my accusations upon what they say.

Well it's going to be a public lynching whether you like it or not. That's what the public is demanding, they want blood, the mayor will oblige them.

This is all about the poor people that the left have abandoned in this, their greatest time of need. The poor is starting to realize that Mayor Rob Ford is there for them. He is the Mayor for the people. He is not an elitest, he is a down to Earth normal guy. People really connect with him because he's not perfect and doesn't try to be. Mayor Ford really cares about underprivileged people. He isn't partisan like so many try to paint him as.

This from the Council floor tonight about an hour ago...

Fletcher to Mayor Ford: Did you seek advice of staff to go ahead with this?

Mayor Ford: No I sought advice from someone more important - the taxpayer

Lol.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[CANADIEN]

I only go by what is posted by other posters. I base my accusations upon what they say.

Except that nobody here has said that the auditor was wrong. Nobody here has said that wrongdoings were right. Which has not prevented you from claiming that's the case.

Well it's going to be a public lynching whether you like it or not. That's what the public is demanding, they want blood, the mayor will oblige them.

When his responsibility, his DUTY, is to lead City Council in acting in a prudent and reasonable manner.

This is all about the poor people (...)

It is also about the poor people when you clamor for costs to public programs that will affect them negatively.

[CANADIEN]

Fletcher to Mayor Ford: Did you seek advice of staff to go ahead with this?

Mayor Ford: No I sought advice from someone more important - the taxpayer

Lol.

Laughable indeed. The mayor has proven himself to be a buffoon. The role of the city's planning and legal staff is to analyse proposed policies and make recommendations based on their PROFESSIONAL expertise. It is one thing to say "I consulted with staff and in the end I decided not follow their recommendation". It is reckless for the mayor of a city of 2 million to dismiss PROFESSIONALS employed by the City as unimportant. No matter the political stripes of the mayor.

Now, I fuly expect you to demonstrate you don't know what I am talking about by claiming I want the Mayor to ignore what the populations wants. Won't work. Not saying anything like that. Instead, i am saying that a prudent Mayor would seek and consider advice from his staff on the feasibility (financial or, in this case, legal) of what he intends to do, even i in the end he chooses to ignore it.

Edited March 10, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Mr.Canada]

Except that nobody here has said that the auditor was wrong. Nobody here has said that wrongdoings were right. Which has not prevented you from claiming that's the case.

People here have done something far worse, they've said nothin

Laughable indeed. The mayor has proven himself to be a buffoon. The role of the city's planning and legal staff is to analyse proposed policies and make recommendations based on their PROFESSIONAL expertise. It is one thing to say "I consulted with staff and in the end I decided not follow their recommendation". It is reckless for the mayor of a city of 2 million to dismiss PROFESSIONALS employed by the City as unimportant. No matter the political stripes of the mayor.

Now, I fuly expect you to demonstrate you don't know what I am talking about by claiming I want the Mayor to ignore what the populations wants. Won't work. Not saying anything like that. Instead, i am saying that a prudent Mayor would seek and consider advice from his staff on the feasibility (financial or, in this case, legal) of what he intends to do, even i in the end he chooses to ignore it.

Smitherman lost, you guys need to get over it. Is it so hard to admit that the Mayor is doing the right thing. I know that no matter what the Mayor does he will be made fun of because he is right of centre. The same types of people who poke fun at the mayor are the same people who thought Mayor Miller did a great job. Forgetting that it was under Millers watch that this mess was created.

Also what has Miller done for social housing? Nothing. It's only gotten worse under his watch. Over the last 7 years they've proven that the left cannot run a city, that much has been made clear.

Simtherman cannot run a Ministry either yet you all wanted him to run Toronto? Lol give me a break. You mention a buffoon, tell Smitherman to look in the mirror. How many times has he failed? How much has he cost the taxpayer? I cannot even count that high.

Mayor Ford has integrity, Smitherman does not. Ask the kids he coaches football if they think he's a buffoon. Ask their parents. He financed that entire football program for those underprivileged kids. What has Smitherman done? What has Paula Fletcher done except run her big mouth non stop?

Edit - Not to mention that MAyor Ford has saved the taxpayer 67 million s ofar and its only been 100 days. How much did Miller save Toronto in 7 years? How many times did Miller raise taxes? How many times did he raise spending?

How many other Miller legacies will Mayor Ford uncover?

Edited March 10, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[Shwa]

People here have done something far worse, they've said nothin

Really? So what did the City of Toronto Audit Committee recommend to Council since it is their function to report on AG reports? Do you know? The question was asked in the special meeting tonight and since you are so obviously appraised of the whole situation and 'what the tax payer wants' you will know what the answer is.

So, what was their recommendation to Councile on the AG's TCHC reporting?

[treehugger]

The fact that Mayor Ford got a 72% approval today by Toronto and the GTA means that all of the crybabies that don't want the last four losers to resign from their Toronto housing job are living in some strange world.

[CANADIEN]

People here have done something far worse, they've said nothin

Learn to read.

Smitherman lost, you guys need to get over it.

Smitherman is not the mayor of Toronto. Smitherman is not the guy who made a fool of himself in Council by saying he doesn't think the people hired to provide advice are important. Ford is the guy who said that.

Tell us: does the idea that the mayor of a city of 2 million people think he doesn't even need to seek the opinion of the people hired to do exactly that - providing advice make sense to you? That's not how a business would be run, but that's OK for a city?

Over the last 7 years they've proven that the left cannot run a city, that much has been made clear.

The same way the "right" proved to be an embarassment under the previous Mayor, don't you agree?

Simtherman cannot run a Ministry either yet you all wanted him to run Toronto?

You know how ALL of us voted? Considering that I didn't vote for either Ford or Smitherman, you are proving once again that you do not know what you are talking about. And once again, Smitherman is not the Mayor, Paula Fletcher is not the Mayor. Ford is. As you keep saying all the time, don't deflect the subject. Edited March 10, 2011 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

The fact that Mayor Ford got a 72% approval today by Toronto and the GTA means that all of the crybabies that don't want the last four losers to resign from their Toronto housing job are living in some strange world.

The fact that nobody here as said they don't want the members of the Housing Corp. Board jo to resigns proves you live in a world where reading skills are not required.

[Mr.Canada]

Learn to read.

There is no outcry from the left because of partisanship and their hate of Mayor Ford. They are silent on this issue and it's sad because the poor people in social housing deserve better. Where is the left that is supposed to be on the side of the downtrodden?

Smitherman is not the mayor of Toronto. Smitherman is not the guy who made a fool of himself in Council by saying he doesn't think the people hired to provide advice are important. Ford is the guy who said that.

No, Mayor Ford says that he listens to the people that really matter, the poor people and not some people who have no idea what it's like to be poor. Mayor Ford is a champion of the poor.

Tell us: does the idea that the mayor of a city of 2 million people think he doesn't even need to seek the opinion of the people hired to do exactly that - providing advice make sense to you? That's not how a business would be run, but that's OK for a city?

Again he chose not tol isten to people who were on the board for 4+ years and did nothing to stop the waste like Paula Fletcher and decided to listen to the people who voted him in. It's a new concept for the Soviet like left at City Hall, listen to the voters. 72% of the voters like what he's doing. His detractors are in the minority by a long shot.

The same way the "right" proved to be an embarrassment under the previous Mayor, don't you agree?

Yes, the right embarrassed the previous left wing City Hall councilors by controlling their spending, it drove them crazy they demanded that people like Ford spend more. Remember that? Paula Fletcher called these audits the "Spanish Inquisition" saying that the taxpayers have no right to see how their money is spent and that the taxpayer should just trust the council!

You know how ALL of us voted? Considering that I didn't vote for either Ford or Smitherman, you are proving once again that you do not know what you are talking about. And once again, Smitherman is not the Mayor, Paula Fletcher is not the Mayor. Ford is. As you keep saying all the time, don't deflect the subject.

That's right Rob Ford is the mayor even when people like you laughed at him during the campaign yet he crushed everyone. I think Ford is having the last laugh. He's enjoying himself immensely watching the left like Fletcher and Vaughn go crazy while theirs nothing they can do about it. The left has it coming they rode the gravy train for too long and now it's over. Cry me a river Paula Fletcher and enjoy the Spanish Inquisition while they look under every rock.

[Black Dog]

Smitherman lost, you guys need to get over it. Is it so hard to admit that the Mayor is doing the right thing. I know that no matter what the Mayor does he will be made fun of because he is right of centre. The same types of people who poke fun at the mayor are the same people who thought Mayor Miller did a great job. Forgetting that it was under Millers watch that this mess was created.

The mayor gets fun of not because he's right of centre per se, but because he's a blustering, incoherent idiot and bully.

Also what has Miller done for social housing? Nothing. It's only gotten worse under his watch. Over the last 7 years they've proven that the left cannot run a city, that much has been made clear.

Tower renewal and Regenet Park revitalization. Boo yah.

Simtherman cannot run a Ministry either yet you all wanted him to run Toronto? Lol give me a break. You mention a buffoon, tell Smitherman to look in the mirror. How many times has he failed? How much has he cost the taxpayer? I cannot even count that high.

And what, pray, has Ford ever run? High school football teams don't count.

Mayor Ford has integrity, Smitherman does not. Ask the kids he coaches football if they think he's a buffoon. Ask their parents. He financed that entire football program for those underprivileged kids. What has Smitherman done? What has Paula Fletcher done except run her big mouth non stop?

I think there might be one or two differences between managing a high school football team and running Canada;s biggest city.

Edit - Not to mention that MAyor Ford has saved the taxpayer 67 million s ofar and its only been 100 days. How much did Miller save Toronto in 7 years? How many times did Miller raise taxes? How many times did he raise spending?

This is utterly meaningless.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Black Dog

[Mr.Canada]

The mayor gets fun of not because he's right of centre per se, but because he's a blustering, incoherent idiot and bully.

Listening to the voters and doing what they want is a bully. Ok, thank you.

Tower renewal and Regenet Park revitalization. Boo yah.

So he was around for a photo op on a brand new building and cut a ribbon. What has he done for the older buildings that are falling apart?

And what, pray, has Ford ever run? High school football teams don't count.

How about a multi million dollar business. His company has created over 100 jobs. How many jobs has Paula fletcher created?

I think there might be one or two differences between managing a high school football team and running Canada;s biggest city.

Yes, that's why he has run a multi million dollar printing business which employs over 100 people with good pay. Guess what? No union needed either.

This is utterly meaningless.

This is the problem with the left. They look at saving $67 million dollars in 100 days as meaningless. The people of Toronto deserve to have their money treated with respect. This kind of respect is too much for the old hard left council leftovers to understand. They prefer Soviet style politics.

[Black Dog]

Listening to the voters and doing what they want is a bully. Ok, thank you.

Do you know what a strawman is? You should because you use them all the damn time.

So he was around for a photo op on a brand new building and cut a ribbon. What has he done for the older buildings that are falling apart?

So you aren't familiar with the programs in question, then?

How about a multi million dollar business. His company has created over 100 jobs. How many jobs has Paula fletcher created?

The business started by his dad and run by his brother?

Yes, that's why he has run a multi million dollar printing business which employs over 100 people with good pay. Guess what? No union needed either.

The business started by his dad and run by his brother?

This is the problem with the left. They look at saving $67 million dollars in 100 days as meaningless.

There's no context there. It's just spin, bumper sticker rhetoric. Look at the big picture here (I know it hurts, but do try it). Ford cut taxes at a time when the city is facing fairly significant budget pressures. He then turned around and burned off the surplus, dipped into the reserves and went begging to the province for more taxpayer money. On transit, he unilaterally kiboshed a billion dollar plan that would bring new transit options to areas currently undeserved in favour of a plan in which the city would take on the risk of a white elephant subway through an area lacking the density to support such a mode. He bitched about costs and pushed forward a essential services designation that could increase costs by as much as $8M a year. His track record shows no vision or plan, just an incoherent, reactionary, knee-jerk ADHD approach to governance.

The people of Toronto deserve to have their money treated with respect. This kind of respect is too much for the old hard left council leftovers to understand. They prefer Soviet style politics.

Respect for taxpayers is a slogan. It's not a substitute for policy.

[William Ashley]

I'm really suprised they replaced a 6+ person board with one Conservative Politician. Ootes

This is reminiscent with the grand conservative strategy to tear down anything not contolled by themselves.

it is really quite oppressive when you think about it.

This is not a unique instance of this happening. completely removing whole public boards and replacing them with a party figure.. it is really the worst form of politics when it involves public institutions.

This is the public housing stake in toronto.. toronto is incredibly expensive, having your housing controlled by one very partisan person is problematic at best when the party is doing outright illegal things.

Edited March 10, 2011 by William Ashley

[Mr.Canada]

I'm really suprised they replaced a 6+ person board with one Conservative Politician. Ootes

This is only in the interim until a new council is chosen. Which will most likely be in June at latest.

[CANADIEN]

No, Mayor Ford says that he listens to the people that really matter, the poor people and not some people who have no idea what it's like to be poor. Mayor Ford is a champion of the poor.["quote]

And you will still repeat that canard when Ford starts cutting programs that benefit the poorest. As for him listening to the poorest... from what I heard, a lot of tenants - you know, the poor you claim to defend ? - are upset both at wrongdoings at the Housing Corp. and at the dismissal of their electing representatives on the Board. Obviously, Ford didn't listen to them.

Again he chose not tol isten to people who were on the board for 4+ years and did nothing to stop the waste like Paula Fletcher and decided to listen to the people who voted him in.

I was talking about municipal employees WE pay to provide advice to the Mayor. Not city councillors. If you do not the difference, stop talking about yet another thing you know nothing about.

Yes, the right embarrassed the previous left wing City Hall councilors by controlling their spending..

I am talking about the time when Mel Lastman was embarassing us every second time he opened his mouth. At least though, he wasn't a bully on top of that.

[Mr.Canada]

I am talking about the time when Mel Lastman was embarassing us every second time he opened his mouth. At least though, he wasn't a bully on top of that.

Was Mayor Miller embarrassing to Toronto?

[CANADIEN]

Was Mayor Miller embarrassing to Toronto?

Nowhere near the levle lastmas was with stupid statements like "the strikers are anti-Cathlic". As for Ford,he will find a way to offer us a few gems as well.