Topaz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 On Feb. 14th, there was a solar flare and it bothered China or that side of the earth more than this side but I did notice a change in my computer and my TV which feeds of a satellite. In 1859, the earth was hit with a sun flare and it caused the telegraph wires to shorten out causing fires in North America and Europe and a spectacular auroras. IF one hit Earth with the power of the 1859, the report says it would be worse for Earth because we depend on electricity for everything and computers. Telecommunications would be in very bad shape. I'm NOT saying the following is true but there has been talk on some websites that a sunflare could hit Earth and kill up to billion people and that it would probably happen within the next five years. If you notice in this report, it does say another hit more powerful than the 14th, could happen. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/catastrophe-looming-risks-rising-solar-storm-activity-20110217-140602-553.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 On Feb. 14th, there was a solar flare and it bothered China or that side of the earth more than this side but I did notice a change in my computer and my TV which feeds of a satellite. In 1859, the earth was hit with a sun flare and it caused the telegraph wires to shorten out causing fires in North America and Europe and a spectacular auroras. IF one hit Earth with the power of the 1859, the report says it would be worse for Earth because we depend on electricity for everything and computers. Telecommunications would be in very bad shape. I'm NOT saying the following is true but there has been talk on some websites that a sunflare could hit Earth and kill up to billion people and that it would probably happen within the next five years. If you notice in this report, it does say another hit more powerful than the 14th, could happen. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/catastrophe-looming-risks-rising-solar-storm-activity-20110217-140602-553.html I would think we wouldn't know until it happens...1859 event could a one in a million year type occurrence...but worst case scenario our entire technological system crashes to a halt followed by our social fabric...ya a death count of billions could result if our food distribution system fails...on the upside it would solve the CO2 emissions problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 On Feb. 14th, there was a solar flare and it bothered China or that side of the earth more than this side but I did notice a change in my computer and my TV which feeds of a satellite. In 1859, the earth was hit with a sun flare and it caused the telegraph wires to shorten out causing fires in North America and Europe and a spectacular auroras. IF one hit Earth with the power of the 1859, the report says it would be worse for Earth because we depend on electricity for everything and computers. Telecommunications would be in very bad shape. I'm NOT saying the following is true but there has been talk on some websites that a sunflare could hit Earth and kill up to billion people and that it would probably happen within the next five years. If you notice in this report, it does say another hit more powerful than the 14th, could happen. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/catastrophe-looming-risks-rising-solar-storm-activity-20110217-140602-553.html Topaz, I'm a ham radio operator. The radio community has been following solar flares for nearly 100 years. They happen all the time! It's no big deal. The one you mention in 1859 caused problems because telegraph wires were a brand new invention and nobody knew much about solar flares and how wires could pick up their energy. Once they found out flares could cause damage the problem of protecting the wires proved very simple. Since then telegraph, telephone, electricity and whatever wires have long ago had protection devices invented. I wouldn't worry about a flare powerful enough to kill billions of people. One that bad hasn't happened in millions and millions of years, if ever! There are electromagnetic layers in the upper atmosphere which shield the earth's surface from most of the solar radiation problems that come from flares. We had 3 strong ones in the past week! All they did was cause some northern light auroras and black out shortwave radio for a few hours. I really wonder what newspapers you read! Either the reporters know nothing about science or they're deliberately trying to scare the ignorant in order to sell more papers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I wouldn't worry about a flare powerful enough to kill billions of people. One that bad hasn't happened in millions and millions of years, if ever!you misunderstood, the flare itself wouldn't kill the speculation was in regards to technology being damaged and damage done to global logistics...there was a documentary on Tv not long ago that looked at what would happen if satellites, computers, planes, generators, logistic systems virtually anything electronic was fried...this is a real concern not sci-fi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I would think we wouldn't know until it happens...1859 event could a one in a million year type occurrence...but worst case scenario our entire technological system crashes to a halt followed by our social fabric...ya a death count of billions could result if our food distribution system fails...on the upside it would solve the CO2 emissions problem... No way .. the Sun can have those kinds of effects on the planet? Who'd a thunk it!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 No way .. the Sun can have those kinds of effects on the planet? Who'd a thunk it!. you're trolling for a fight...if you have a point to make make it or bugger off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) you misunderstood, the flare itself wouldn't kill the speculation was in regards to technology being damaged and damage done to global logistics...there was a documentary on Tv not long ago that looked at what would happen if satellites, computers, planes, generators, logistic systems virtually anything electronic was fried...this is a real concern not sci-fi... If you re-read Topaz' opening post you will clearly see that she mentions reports that a flare could not only kill up to a billion people but it could happen within 5 years! A HUGE flare could indeed wipe out much solid-state electronics, similar to an Electro-Magnetic Pulse (EMP) from a nuclear explosion. However, the odds are extremely slim of this ever happening. Again, the ionized layers in the upper atmosphere provide a great deal of protection. If they didn't, it is likely that animal life would never have evolved on the planet in the first place! The problem is that transistor devices have a very thin junction of semiconductor materials that can be perforated by a high voltage spike, even if there's no appreciable current. This means that even static electricity like the sparks from your cat's fur on a cold, dry winter morning can destroy the junction, rendering the equipment inoperative. Integrated circuits and computer chips contain thousands of transistor devices. So any equipment that uses them is vulnerable but again, no one has so far seen or heard of a sufficiently powerful flare that could cause damage. Fortunately, once such a device has been wired into a circuit it experiences a far greater degree of protection than if it is still uninstalled. That's why we don't experience constant failures with our TV sets and hi-fi units. A flare powerful enough to damage installed electronics would likely give half the world's population instant skin cancer at the same time. Not something that seems to happen every few years! Space-based electronics like that used in satellites are a different story. If you're high enough up to be outside of the protective atmosphere layers then damage can and does occur! A number of satellites were lost until engineers learned about this phenomenon and took steps to protect such electronics. Incidently, old-fashioned vacuum tube technology is all but immune to these dangers! Back in the Cold War days it used to cause many a sleepless night for American military electronics engineers. If a nuclear war started western countries that relied on modern solid-state transistor technology could be knocked back to an Amish lifestyle in the blink of an eye! The entire North American power grid would go down and computers everywhere would become boat anchors. Meanwhile, even in the early 80's the USSR was flying many MIGs that still used vacuum tube technology on board! The Russians with their old-fashioned infrastructure would have been FAR better off than us! Every morning when I have my coffee I listen to talk radio on my 1953 Zenith TransOceanic vacuum tube portable radio. It's big, clunky and weighs a few pounds but it also has a bunch of shortwave bands and I love to take it portable with me! When conditions are right I listen to the BBC service and a few other countries. If we start getting nuked at least I'll have something to listen to! Edited February 20, 2011 by Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Which is why every Cold War era nuclear strike on a US/UK/etc city was to be preceded by a high altitude megatonne explosion to produce a massive EMP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) If you re-read Topaz' opening post you will clearly see that she mentions reports that a flare could not only kill up to a billion people but it could happen within 5 years!or next year or 500years or 5000K...A HUGE flare could indeed wipe out much solid-state electronics, similar to an Electro-Magnetic Pulse (EMP) from a nuclear explosion. However, the odds are extremely slim of this ever happening. Again, the ionized layers in the upper atmosphere provide a great deal of protection. If they didn't, it is likely that animal life would never have evolved on the planet in the first place! you have no way of knowing this hasn't happened before or if it will...The problem is that transistor devices have a very thin junction of semiconductor materials that can be perforated by a high voltage spike, even if there's no appreciable current. This means that even static electricity like the sparks from your cat's fur on a cold, dry winter morning can destroy the junction, rendering the equipment inoperative. Integrated circuits and computer chips contain thousands of transistor devices. So any equipment that uses them is vulnerable but again, no one has so far seen or heard of a sufficiently powerful flare that could cause damage.but then again we've been on this planet only a very very short time so we have no idea it hasn't happened before or if it will...Fortunately, once such a device has been wired into a circuit it experiences a far greater degree of protection than if it is still uninstalled. That's why we don't experience constant failures with our TV sets and hi-fi units. A flare powerful enough to damage installed electronics would likely give half the world's population instant skin cancer at the same time. Not something that seems to happen every few years!the documentary I saw claims the 1859 event could cause considerable damage without half population having skin cancer as that never happened in 1859...Space-based electronics like that used in satellites are a different story. If you're high enough up to be outside of the protective atmosphere layers then damage can and does occur! A number of satellites were lost until engineers learned about this phenomenon and took steps to protect such electronics.Incidently, old-fashioned vacuum tube technology is all but immune to these dangers! Back in the Cold War days it used to cause many a sleepless night for American military electronics engineers. If a nuclear war started western countries that relied on modern solid-state transistor technology could be knocked back to an Amish lifestyle in the blink of an eye! The entire North American power grid would go down and computers everywhere would become boat anchors. Meanwhile, even in the early 80's the USSR was flying many MIGs that still used vacuum tube technology on board! The Russians with their old-fashioned infrastructure would have been FAR better off than us! Every morning when I have my coffee I listen to talk radio on my 1953 Zenith TransOceanic vacuum tube portable radio. It's big, clunky and weighs a few pounds but it also has a bunch of shortwave bands and I love to take it portable with me! When conditions are right I listen to the BBC service and a few other countries. If we start getting nuked at least I'll have something to listen to! the point was if a solar flare can knock out our electronics we are in deep shit with no way to fend for ourselves, we've become too dependent on our technology... Edited February 21, 2011 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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