The middle class can't buy justice

[guyser]

Unfortunately the incidents referred to are a result of identity theft.

Yes , but not one that shows up until long after the process is completed.

The government transfered title without doing due diligence and a bank issued a mortgage on a home it didn't own to a person using a false identity.

I am unsure, and didnt look, however I suspect that Govt's dont do diligence. The same as when you renew your plates the govt doesnt do anything except absolve themselves of liability by getting you to sign that you have insurance. As long as the T's are dotted it is accepted by them.

The legal owner had no part in, or knowledge of the transaction but ends up being the only victim. Why should an owner have to buy title insurance to protect against something that was the fault of other parties? It many be legal but it isn't right or just.

Fraud in this case means there are two victims. The homeowner and the bank?mortgage co. Due to the nature of our laws, if one is going to lose out it will be the homeowner. And that should change, but that is not the Justice systems duty to change but parliament, and they wont as it would affect creditors and in most cases the govt is that, at least in some part.

Title insurance covers far more than "the fault of others".

There could have been an error made 100 yrs ago in the title office that only now comes to light.

Prior owner may have undiscovered fees payable, Gas, Taxes etc that Title Insurance protects you from losing the house over.Encrachment and fraud are two others.

It is not madatory here, although it may be in BC Wilber, I am not sure.

Edited February 15, 2011 by guyser

[Wilber]

Yes , but not one that shows up until long after the process is completed.

SO?

I am unsure, and didnt look, however I suspect that Govt's dont do diligence. The same as when you renew your plates the govt doesnt do anything except absolve themselves of liability by getting you to sign that you have insurance. As long as the T's are dotted it is accepted by them.

You don't change the title of your vehicle when you renew your plates.

Fraud in this case means there are two victims. The homeowner and the bank?mortgage co. Due to the nature of our laws, if one is going to lose out it will be the homeowner. And that should change, but that is not the Justice systems duty to change but parliament, and they wont as it would affect creditors and in most cases the govt is that, at least in some part.

The homeowner isn't lending the money, the bank is. It should be up to them to make sure they are lending it to the right person. There can be two separate types of fraud here, neither one of which involves the original owner. 1. The state transfered title without making sure the original owner was part of the change. 2. The bank loaned money to a person who had stolen someone elses identity.

Title insurance covers far more than "the fault of others".

There could have been an error made 100 yrs ago in the title office that only now comes to light.

Prior owner may have undiscovered fees payable, Gas, Taxes etc that Title Insurance protects you from losing the house over.Encrachment and fraud are two others.

It is not madatory here, although it may be in BC Wilber, I am not sure.

Actually all those things would be the fault of others, they just might not be fraud. No, it is not mandatory in BC.

[bjre]

Yes , but not one that shows up until long after the process is completed.

I am unsure, and didnt look, however I suspect that Govt's dont do diligence. The same as when you renew your plates the govt doesnt do anything except absolve themselves of liability by getting you to sign that you have insurance. As long as the T's are dotted it is accepted by them.

Fraud in this case means there are two victims. The homeowner and the bank?mortgage co. Due to the nature of our laws, if one is going to lose out it will be the homeowner. And that should change, but that is not the Justice systems duty to change but parliament, and they wont as it would affect creditors and in most cases the govt is that, at least in some part.

Title insurance covers far more than "the fault of others".

There could have been an error made 100 yrs ago in the title office that only now comes to light.

Prior owner may have undiscovered fees payable, Gas, Taxes etc that Title Insurance protects you from losing the house over.Encrachment and fraud are two others.

It is not madatory here, although it may be in BC Wilber, I am not sure.

The legal system is evil. It's aim is not for help the people in the nation to live a better life. Help those need help do right things. It's aim is find reason to punish others, take money from others. That is the evilness of the system.

[guyser]

SO?

The point was the homeowner would have not idea this was happening , neither would anyone else involved (save for the fraudsters) until such time as homeowner becomes aware of it.

You don't change the title of your vehicle when you renew your plates.

Sorry, the point was the govt relies on your to provide to them , not for them to go out and prove to themselves that all this is legit.

My example explained that this is true and all they want is to be absolved of any blame.

The homeowner isn't lending the money, the bank is. It should be up to them to make sure they are lending it to the right person. There can be two separate types of fraud here, neither one of which involves the original owner. 1. The state transfered title without making sure the original owner was part of the change. 2. The bank loaned money to a person who had stolen someone elses identity.

Wilber , we both know that the govt doesnt do any diligence , they dont need too, they get absolved anyway.

The bank loaned money that on the face of it satisfied all requirements.

If I go to sell you a car, show you the ownership, safety,prior history and you cut me a cheque....how do you know its stolen? And when it is discovered by the original owner, he can just go get it. Maybe thats what the law should say on home frauds. But is deosnt.

Actually all those things would be the fault of others, they just might not be fraud. No, it is not mandatory in BC.

Fault.... I dont know, in many cases it could be. But in many cases not.

For instance Land Title, it may have been incorrectly copied over 100 yrs ago and then whehn updated in subsequent years, may have copied wrong. Fault...I dont know.

Some cases involving gas or tax bills may not be the fault of anyone b ut perhaps the gas company or tax office. If something didnt get applied in a timely manner and then only found out thru audit, it can still be applied even though many years have passed. Think the ETR-407 Hwy and the shit they pull, all legal.

[guyser]

The legal system is evil. It's aim is not for help the people in the nation to live a better life. Help those need help do right things. It's aim is find reason to punish others, take money from others. That is the evilness of the system.

Evil? Oh vey !

But yeah, the court aim is not for helping people live a better life.

Now in China, wow, the justice system there is sooo much better. You live better because so afraind to do wrong and then, even when poor, you get charged for the bullet.

In China mommies say "Be good, we no afford bullet to put in you brain"

Works like a charm.

[bjre]

Evil? Oh vey !

But yeah, the court aim is not for helping people live a better life.

Now in China, wow, the justice system there is sooo much better. You live better because so afraind to do wrong and then, even when poor, you get charged for the bullet.

In China mommies say "Be good, we no afford bullet to put in you brain"

Works like a charm.

You know nothing about China.

[guyser]

You know nothing about China.

Wonderful country, very altruistic, never harm anyone,justice is fair and even handed and a veritable Eden unlike anything else on earth.

Hope thats enough to know about China.

You know nothing about Canada....and you live here.

Who's ignorance is more relative to day to day life?

I tripped on the sidewalk today at lunch, damn CAS , its their fault.

[eyeball]

Just out of curiosity, how many here have read any legal theory?

Can you suggest a good starting point? At $350.00 - $400.00 bucks an hour for a lawyer, I suspect if I ever find myself in court I'll be defending myself.

[eyeball]

Stop breaking the law and you won't have any legal problems.

What do you do when the politicians keep broadening the criminal code?

By the way ever notice how many politicians are lawyers?

[Wilber]

Why should the govt, the last "needy" person in the group get all the funds and the last and likely most needy get the least? Because that is the way the law is set up. A Judge will have to grant the Govt its share.

Its right and legal, and any other way violates law.Its sucks, but that is the way we live.

That's the whole essence of this thread isn't it? The middle class is the least likely to get justice if for no other reason than they have to sacrifice the most to even get access to the system and even then their ability to pay will limit the quality of that access.