Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 The pertinent question should be why do so many people with God act so immorally? Again I ask... Is that Gods fault,or the fault of the person co-opting the name of God in an immoral manner??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Again I ask... Is that Gods fault,or the fault of the person co-opting the name of God in an immoral manner??? How are we ever to know, considering God did some pretty nasty things in the Old Testament: 1: Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2: Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1st Samuel Chapter 15:1-3 Edited April 4, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
WIP Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Again I ask... Is that Gods fault,or the fault of the person co-opting the name of God in an immoral manner??? Well, the only way nonbelievers have for evaluating God and whether belief in God is a good thing, is through the conduct of those who profess to believe in God. Some people who are God-centered do great things, but there are so many who use their religious beliefs to justify greed, revenge, hatred, and persecution, I'm not sure how it would all balance out. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 How are we ever to know, considering God did some pretty nasty things in the Old Testament: 1st Samuel Chapter 15:1-3 Yes... Of course ,by quoting the Old Testament,you've completely discounted the New Testament and the New Covenant that tells us to turn the other cheek and only fight the good fight... Which makes your assessment incomplete... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
WIP Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 As Isaac Asimov famously said, "Never let your sense of morality prevent you from doing what's right." The problem with rigid ideologies is that they create these sorts of paradoxes. A world view lacking all pragmatism ends up in some sort of a tyranny. From what I've read, ethical issues are always going to end up with some messy compromises. There are no perfect rules, so the worst ethical systems are those that demand perfect adherence to rules. Utilitarians can run into trouble if principles evaluating the "greater good" are taken to logical extremes, but at least these systems are getting feedback from actual results. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Yes... Of course ,by quoting the Old Testament,you've completely discounted the New Testament and the New Covenant that tells us to turn the other cheek and only fight the good fight... Which makes your assessment incomplete... Perhaps so, but it's the same God, even if he tooks some qualudes somewhere around 1AD and got all friendly. Quote
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Perhaps so, but it's the same God, even if he tooks some qualudes somewhere around 1AD and got all friendly. If God has allowed for a 6000 year Age of Grace,where anyone can simply reject Him,one can reasonably assume that He is more merciful than you are giving Him credit for... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
dre Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Yes... Of course ,by quoting the Old Testament,you've completely discounted the New Testament and the New Covenant that tells us to turn the other cheek and only fight the good fight... Which makes your assessment incomplete... So the god of the old testament doesnt exist anymore? All that changed is PEOPLE. Thats why the new testament is more moderate... the PEOPLE that wrote it lived in a different time. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 If God has allowed for a 6000 year Age of Grace,where anyone can simply reject Him,one can reasonably assume that He is more merciful than you are giving Him credit for... Yes, because wiping out all but eight people on the planet in a global flood is such a merciful act. Quote
dre Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Again I ask... Is that Gods fault,or the fault of the person co-opting the name of God in an immoral manner??? I dunno. Apparently the reason people sin is because god made a talking snake and got it to con a woman made of ribs to eat fruit from a forbidden tree. So if you believe that, then sure you could say its gods fault. But clearly none of that shit happened anyhow, so I definately would come down on the side of blaming people for the stupid shit they constantly do. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Yes, because wiping out all but eight people on the planet in a global flood is such a merciful act. Again...More Old Testament stuff conveniently discounting the New Testament... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 So the god of the old testament doesnt exist anymore? All that changed is PEOPLE. Thats why the new testament is more moderate... the PEOPLE that wrote it lived in a different time. Uh huh... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 I dunno. Apparently the reason people sin is because god made a talking snake and got it to con a woman made of ribs to eat fruit from a forbidden tree. So if you believe that, then sure you could say its gods fault. But clearly none of that shit happened anyhow, so I definately would come down on the side of blaming people for the stupid shit they constantly do. Are you suggesting nothing in The Bible,Old or New Testament ever happened?? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Again...More Old Testament stuff conveniently discounting the New Testament... Could you remind me why every Christian Bible out there includes the OT? Is it sort of a "Good God, Bad God" routine? Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Are you suggesting nothing in The Bible,Old or New Testament ever happened?? It seems on the face of it that much of Genesis is myth. Quote
maple_leafs182 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Wars were happening long before our economic system was invented. And these wars at their heart are economic wars. These wars are people trying to take others peoples resources. Oh, and scarcity is a factor in all economic systems. In all economic systems that we have tried, this is why wars have been and will continue to be a constant in our society unless there is some fundamental changes in our economic system. Quote │ _______ [███STOP███]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ :::::::--------------Conservatives beleive ▄▅█FUNDING THIS█▅▄▃▂- - - - - --- -- -- -- -------- Liberals lie I██████████████████] ...◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙'(='.'=)' ⊙
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Could you remind me why every Christian Bible out there includes the OT? Is it sort of a "Good God, Bad God" routine? Probably because the Old Testament is the bedrock of Christian and Jewish faith and lays the foundation for the New Testament for the Christian believer... Could you please reconcile the fact that after the Old Testament (which forshadows the coming of The Saviour in several books) we are given a New Covenant in the New Testament that,by the Saviour's own admission,supercedes the Old Testament Law? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 And these wars at their heart are economic wars. It's my contention that all wars are economic in nature. Religion, ideology, these are all faces painted on conflict. These wars are people trying to take others peoples resources. Or control them or create captive markets, and so on. In all economic systems that we have tried, this is why wars have been and will continue to be a constant in our society unless there is some fundamental changes in our economic system. There's no eliminating scarcity in certain commodities, or limitations in production capacity. Marx tried to dream one up, but all he did was deliver a system that functioned based on the lowest common denominator. Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Probably because the Old Testament is the bedrock of Christian and Jewish faith and lays the foundation for the New Testament for the Christian believer... Could you please reconcile the fact that after the Old Testament (which forshadows the coming of The Saviour in several books) we are given a New Covenant in the New Testament that,by the Saviour's own admission,supercedes the Old Testament Law? I don't understand the necessity of the Old Law. God is God. He need not have a limited covenant with the Israelites and screw everyone else, and then pop up and go "Haha, new plan, now everyone is saved!" Quote
GostHacked Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Again...More Old Testament stuff conveniently discounting the New Testament... So basically, like using the scientific method, old knowledge was replaced by new knowledge once the old knowledge no longer fit the evolved society's ideologies. Quote
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 I don't understand the necessity of the Old Law. God is God. He need not have a limited covenant with the Israelites and screw everyone else, and then pop up and go "Haha, new plan, now everyone is saved!" You're right!! You don't understand... The Law has not been replaced...But adherence to it alone cannot save one on its own... Without the shed blood for the remission of sin,no one other than the Israelites would have the chance at Salvation... Hence God becoming flesh and bone and seemingly dying a physical death,only to be ressurected and defeating the grave and death... And seeing as we are still in the Age of Grace,that Resurrection is to the potential glory of us all... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 So basically, like using the scientific method, old knowledge was replaced by new knowledge once the old knowledge no longer fit the evolved society's ideologies. Yeah,but this one's for all eternity... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 You're right!! You don't understand... The Law has not been replaced...But adherence to it alone cannot save one on its own... So we should still be executing witches? Without the shed blood for the remission of sin,no one other than the Israelites would have the chance at Salvation... Hence God becoming flesh and bone and seemingly dying a physical death,only to be ressurected and defeating the grave and death... And seeing as we are still in the Age of Grace,that Resurrection is to the potential glory of us all... This is a magical formula. Is there some particular reason God would have used it? Is He bound by some sort of rules on how salvation can be achieved? Quote
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 So we should still be executing witches? This is a magical formula. Is there some particular reason God would have used it? Is He bound by some sort of rules on how salvation can be achieved? Executing Witches?? Huh?? Well it it would seem that during the Age of Grace one can freely come to,or reject God,all on hisor her own... What is grace?? It's unmeritted favour... What does that mean,in the context of God?? It means He owes you nothing because He created you..In fact,you oweHim your very existence... But because He is a merciful God,He wants you to come to Him freely and unforced....Or,as you have chosen to do,reject Him...Of your own free will... That's it!! Of course,the offer stands until the Age of Grace comes to an end.. And if one believes n the 6 Day Theory,as it relates to echatology,that offer ain't gonna stand much longer... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GostHacked Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Yeah,but this one's for all eternity... Nothing is eternal. Everything is finite, even the universe it seems .. for all it's vastness .. is finite. Quote
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