Esq Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) It has gotten out of hand first 250 million a year now an additional 5 billion. You could build a massive massive complex for these costs.. .no "building should cost 5 billion for upkeep it is rediciulous. http://www.montrealgazette.com/Renovations+crumbling+Parliament+critical+Fraser+says/4222249/story.html They can build a new world trade center for less than that. It is so absurd. Some upkeep is reasonable... but this is an absurd amount. They have whole forts maintained for far less than this. Take this for instance http://www.toronto.ca/culture/museums/fort-york.htm "The Fort York Foundation is a non-profit, registered charitable organization created with the mandate to support capital renewal at Fort York with the specific goal to raise $6 million from the private sector for the proposed new Visitor Centre." Meanwhile.. parliament -- lets spend over 5 billion dollars on upkeeping this building...? sounds fishy to me. If you are going to modernize why not build a whole new building and keep the historic building as is. at a cost of 5 billion it is soooo absurd. Take into account an equivolent 1 year of upkeep bought the nortel campus complex - which is a corporate headquarters and research complex. Yet billions on this.. so many buildings and land could be bought for this price, and services shifted. It is way super inflated. Edited February 4, 2011 by Esq Quote
GWiz Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 Honestly, no... While there's no doubt that $5 Billion plus is BIG MONEY, the Parliament Buildings are the symbol of Canada and Canadian history as well as where our Government works and plays... They're old, they are crumbling, what does Canada look like if we can't even take care of Canada's center of Government? I've been there many times and my only regret is that this project wasn't started back when the surpluses were coming in, even though I strongly suport balanced budgets and paying down/off Canada's national debt... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
guyser Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 If Sheila Fraser signs off on it as A-OK, so am I. I dont want Parliament buildings to look like the Haitain capital building come ten years. Quote
Smallc Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 I have no problem with this. I saw the buildings for the first time last year, and will go again this year. IMO, we should pay any price necessary. Quote
g_bambino Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) I have no problem with this. I saw the buildings for the first time last year, and will go again this year. IMO, we should pay any price necessary. But not any unnecessary price. Contractors make their living at bilking clients out of as much money as they can and the government often proves the easiest, and thus most lucrative, target for that practice. By all means, spend billions on the restoration of Parliament Hill and its surrounds; but, please, have some financial prudency and make sure it sticks as close as possible to the billions actually budgeted. These kinds of cost overruns are what turn people against the preservation and renovation of historical buildings, highlighting even more the otherwise already known fact that it's cheaper to build new than to fix up what's existing. [+] Edited February 4, 2011 by g_bambino Quote
fellowtraveller Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 $5 billion is absolutely ludicrous for the size and scope of work required. You could build the Taj Mahal. Angkor Wat and some new pyramids at Giza for half that. As noted, there are far too many agencies involved, a prime culprit is National Capital Commisssion with Public Works as henchmen. Anybody who has ever dealt with either knows that nothing is too expensive, nothing is too silly in Ottawa building maintenance . The reason? Every floor of every govt operation contains a Deputy Minister or at least a squawking flock of ADMs, and they get what they want because they are simply not accountable. There are no budgets. Quote The government should do something.
guyser Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 $5 billion is absolutely ludicrous for the size and scope of work required. You could build the Taj Mahal. Angkor Wat and some new pyramids at Giza for half that. Always cheaper to build new than to refurbish. Sourcinf the stone to fix something could cost 20X's what other stone may cost. If you want it to look like a trailer with an add-on, fine, say that, but otherwise look at the detail they have to work with. Like I said, Sheila is on it and one person who relishes spanking behinds when money is stupidly spent is her. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 If Sheila Fraser signs off on it as A-OK, so am I. Ya, i trust her...for now. But 5 billion for a building is INSANE!! You could raze and rebuild the entire building for much less i'm certain. In comparison, a modern 1st-class major league baseball stadium costs about $500-600 million to build (US money). Maybe the price of copper has gone up to $50 an ounce? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Esq Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) You could raze and rebuild the entire building for much less... I bet you couldn't. 5 bucks. gonna put your money where your mouth is Moonlight Graham? I could picture a National Film Board of Canada flic on this '101 ways to burn down the Parliament Buildings' we open with a friendly bet taken between two people.. scene 1 man with cigarette nonsuspiciously (but obviously up to something) walks around entrance to parliament building with a nearly finished cigarette... man throws cigarette at parliaent wall and runs down the hill frantically looking over his shoulder form time to time. mounty in dress gives man strange look and scratches his head ---- scene two man in hallway on tour pulls out plastic can of gasoline and starts splashing the floor .... can is empty and just before he lights his match two security gaurds grab the man on either side of his body and start to escort him out of the building.. short court scene 1 year later... the next attempt.... aided by neo-quebec seperatists.. a new plan is hatched.. and so on... of course there would also be lots of alchohol and marijuana in the film... and quebec seperatists... eventually it would succeed but it would be the whitehouse accidentally when one falls unconcious from liquour and drug enduced stupour.. wakes up in the white house thinking it is really parliament... but but it is really his own house......... and he is on acid. perfect. the queen being his dog won't work so maybe it can be .. actually can't type that here. I need to start screen writing. just got another scene in mind this one is the quebec caucus scrambling for a lighter (of cours the chasing of lucien bouchard as a source of flamability wont fly.. ... (you got to picture gille going hand over hand with other members of the block fighting for a lighter then chasing bouchard through parliament to understand the scene. (bouchard has a wooden leg) --- maybe it could be laden with explosives or required to light a bunch of fireworks wired in the upper chamber.. also I have this cool scene for bouchard that is reminisent of that one flying circus british navy scene. something like really really bad taste... sorry. also the sliping on the gasoline by a leader of the opposition probably won't be volunteered. attempt 73 got to be a straight jacket in this scene. maybe just him hoping out of the back of an ambulance before the next attempt. another scene harper somehow starts spitting fireballs at the hosue of commons as its doors are nailed shut while the rest of parliament is left inside... this done by plot 97 that slowly turns harper into a reptile breathing fire through secret gene therapy slipped into his morning coffee by the conspirator bettor who gets a job at the pmo. cameo with dalton mcguinty holding a small kiten saying "you too" (I like dalton btw) govenor general in superman suit driving back to pad to watch movies with harper as a diversion from blowing more giant fireballs and alighting the commons --- ok I think I'm loosing my creativity. /end. a cryptic ending the voice of god "EVEN BETTER THAN FIRE." then barrak walks out from behind the black screen. to the front. (record scratch might be ok for a sound effect also) Nothing seen or heard actually happened, it is all your imagination. then the men in black amensia device is brought out ---- flash it leaves room for a sequel too. I could see the soundtrack also -- I wonder how much it would cost to license will smiths here come the men in black as an endor BUT here is the catch cut mixed with o'canada and god save the queen. also the comic scene from one more time by daft punk. Edited February 4, 2011 by Esq Quote
guyser Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 Ya, i trust her...for now. But 5 billion for a building is INSANE!! It may or may not trun out that way. But this is no ordinary job. I can think of numerous reasons for costs to skyrocket. - Liability insurance will cost a f'ing fortune -lot of stoppages for Parliaments convenience (ie some big wig is coming) -clearance issues for workers -systematic dismantle, catalog and store for future use, various components. -Architect fees, historical experts fees I could go on, but anyhow. I do think it is excessive but have to trust Sheila.....maybe Sheila's on the take, nope cant be, the Cons are in power, that could never happen. Quote
g_bambino Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 You could raze and rebuild the entire building for much less i'm certain. It's not one building. It's not even the three on Parliament Hill. It's work being done in the entire parliamentary precinct, and over a decade or more. Still, as I've said before, my experience in the field tells me there's something not right about 5 billion, and climbing, for this project, even given it's scope and timeline. There is, of course, a lot of information I'm not privy to; but, my cynical side is telling me the usual contractor-government relationship is going on here (read: one party bills for everything and anything, even if purely imaginary, and the other party pays, no questions asked), just on a more grand scale. Quote
Esq Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Posted February 4, 2011 It's not one building. It's not even the three on Parliament Hill. It's work being done in the entire parliamentary precinct, and over a decade or more. Still, as I've said before, my experience in the field tells me there's something not right about 5 billion, and climbing, for this project, even given it's scope and timeline. There is, of course, a lot of information I'm not privy to; but, my cynical side is telling me the usual contractor-government relationship is going on here (read: one party bills for everything and anything, even if purely imaginary, and the other party pays, no questions asked), just on a more grand scale. Then why is this being reported as rennovations to parliament --- shouldn't this be corrected in the press from misrepresentation? Quote
GWiz Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 Has anyone thought to look at some other countries and what it costs them to maintain/refurbish Government buidings of the import that the Parliament buildings have to Canada and Canadian heritage? Try it! See what Washington spends on maintaining their Capitol Building... Ours is one of the CHEAPEST yet most magnificent Capital Buildings in the world... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 Then why is this being reported as rennovations to parliament --- shouldn't this be corrected in the press from misrepresentation? ALL of it is, the whole "precinct", IS Canada's Parliament, Buildings, grounds, east and west blocks, etc... If you think it's only the "center block" (the one seen in most pictures) it's not... No misrepresentation, the buildings being renovated FIRST are the oldest completed in 1865... The newest is the Center Block, the original was destroyed by fire, and rebuilt in 1916-1917 (during WWI)... If you ever want to get some real pride in being a Canadian take a tour to the Parliament Buildings sometime... The rest of Ottawa ain't bad either... http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0006104 Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Esq Posted February 5, 2011 Author Report Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) ALL of it is, the whole "precinct", IS Canada's Parliament, Buildings, grounds, east and west blocks, etc... If you think it's only the "center block" (the one seen in most pictures) it's not... No misrepresentation, the buildings being renovated FIRST are the oldest completed in 1865... The newest is the Center Block, the original was destroyed by fire, and rebuilt in 1916-1917 (during WWI)... If you ever want to get some real pride in being a Canadian take a tour to the Parliament Buildings sometime... The rest of Ottawa ain't bad either... http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0006104 I took a tour of parliament/ peace tower in grade 7 or 8 and signed the peace tower guest book. Good trip. I think it was grade 7. I've had dreams about both CSIR and the supreme court.. not sure if it is real. actually http://www.sirc-csars.gc.ca/index-eng.html .. but it is always csir when I think about it for some reason. Edited February 5, 2011 by Esq Quote
jbg Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 I dont want Parliament buildings to look like the Haitain capital building come ten years. Imagine having a GG that's a Haitian? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
g_bambino Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 Then why is this being reported as rennovations to parliament --- shouldn't this be corrected in the press from misrepresentation? The press always oversimplifies things. Quote
Saipan Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 It IS a lot of money, but Liberals wasted $2 Billion for silly duck gun registration and absolutely NOTHING to show for. Quote
GWiz Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 Imagine having a GG that's a Haitian? And a Chinese one before that, two of the BEST GGs Canada ever had... A Canadian is a Canadian and it doesn't matter a lick what their ethic origin is now does it? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 It IS a lot of money, but Liberals wasted $2 Billion for silly duck gun registration and absolutely NOTHING to show for. As compared to wasting $1 BILLION on a two week G8/G20 meeting? I see your point... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Saipan Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 G8/G20 meeting actually happened. Next time will be in other country. For half the cost of useless duck gun registration (that didn't happen yet) Meeting could have been lot cheaper is the professional shit disturbers were locked up. Quote
Saipan Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 And a Chinese one before that, two of the BEST GGs Canada ever had... You mean the best spenders? A Canadian is a Canadian and it doesn't matter a lick what their ethic origin is now does it? A Canadian is a Canadian, but not separatist or "canadian" with two citizenships. Quote
GWiz Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 G8/G20 meeting actually happened. Next time will be in other country. Already was... It cost S. Korea under $100 Mil to host it... For half the cost of useless duck gun registration (that didn't happen yet) When was it repealed? That's great news! Exactly what did Canada get for/from the $1+B G8/G20 conf.? Meeting could have been lot cheaper is the professional shit disturbers were locked up. The gun registry wouldn't have happened if some nut hadn't killed 14 women... Your point? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 You mean the best spenders? No, I mean BEST GGs... If by "best spenders" you mean most frugal, perhaps, I'd have to check... A Canadian is a Canadian, but not separatist or "canadian" with two citizenships. Maybe you should talk to Moroney who gave the Bloc seats in Parliament about that... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Smallc Posted February 5, 2011 Report Posted February 5, 2011 Already was... It cost S. Korea under $100 Mil to host it... That isn't even remotely true. Quote
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