What the hell Agincourt?

[Shwa]

From the Star:

Woman’s cries ignored as she freezes to death: Police

Authorities are investigating how a woman with dementia froze to death near her Scarborough home early Monday after police say her cries for help were ignored.

The 66-year-old woman had little clothing to protect her on the coldest morning of the year when she wandered away from her home.

A newspaper delivery person found her around 5 a.m. lying face up on the sidewalk outside a house on Kennaley Crescent, at least a block away from where she lived near the intersection of Brimley Rd. and McNicoll Ave. in Scarborough.

...

Neighbours “didn’t call police because they said it was a dangerous area and they didn’t want to get involved,” Toronto police Sgt. David Dube told the Star.

“It’s sad because this could have been a totally different outcome,” Dube said. People have an “obligation” to call police when people are in distress, he said.

OK, the police are saying this and one guy actually heard some screams, but he thought it was a fight or some partying. No need for alarm in this friendly neighbourhood right?

When asked why people didn’t help he said, “I wouldn’t have let the woman in, and I’m not saying she should have been let in, but people should have at least phoned 911.”

A simple call to 911 might have saved a life. Gawd...

[guyser]

Its 5 AM, I am asleep and would need a ton more noise to hear anything in the house let alone outside the house.

Very sad, but no one was moving in that burb at those hours, thus, she froze to death.

[Bonam]

From the article:

It was 5 a.m. Monday and, with a wind chill plunging to -28C overnight, a woman delivering newspapers noticed a couple of police cruisers circling a quiet Scarborough street.

Police have not identified the victim, other than to say she was 66 and had been suffering from dementia.

What happened was inevitable. She was a crazy and aged woman that decides to wander around outside on nights when it is -28C. If it wasn't that night and that cause of death, it would only have been something else in the near future anyway. Sad, but you can't really say it's unexpected, nor can you really blame the people of that neighborhood.

[Moonlight Graham]

What happened was inevitable. She was a crazy and aged woman that decides to wander around outside on nights when it is -28C. If it wasn't that night and that cause of death, it would only have been something else in the near future anyway. Sad, but you can't really say it's unexpected, nor can you really blame the people of that neighborhood.

That's a decent argument. But if i heard someone in distress outside my door, i would go help. From what CBC said, only 2 people heard her (if i recall right).

This woman had dementia. One has to look at the husband, and why was this woman not in a long-term care facility? However, where i live there is very often a long wait time to get into a long-term care facility, whether private or public so it's hard to say if he was at fault at all.

Also, one could also blame the woman herself depending on her situation. My grandmother has dementia, and in the early stages when she suffered the symptoms but still had most of her wits she refused to leave her home or make plans to have the problem taken care of properly.

Point is, it's very hard to lay blame on any particular person(s) with this case without knowing her person situation.

[bjre]

“It’s sad because this could have been a totally different outcome,” Dube said. People have an “obligation” to call police when people are in distress, he said.

That means cops are not trusted. They did too many bad things, such as charge shopkeepers and release thief.

[Black Dog]

That means cops are not trusted. They did too many bad things, such as charge shopkeepers and release thief.

The same thief who was just sentenced to four months in jail and banned from the area? The same shopkeepers who were later acquited? More importantly, what the hell does this have to do with the story, which is really about people's callous indifference and declining levels of empathy. I hope the people who saw this woman or heard her cries for help suffer the guilt for a long long time.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

What happened was inevitable. She was a crazy and aged woman that decides to wander around outside on nights when it is -28C. If it wasn't that night and that cause of death, it would only have been something else in the near future anyway. Sad, but you can't really say it's unexpected, nor can you really blame the people of that neighborhood.

So, perhaps the best thing is to take people diagnosed with dementia and just put a bullet in their brains?

BTW: people with dementia don't "decide" to wander off, you moron, nor are they "crazy". I kinda hope someone close to you contracts dementia, perhaps then you'll develp a little sympathy and not be such a fucking tool.

This woman had dementia. One has to look at the husband, and why was this woman not in a long-term care facility? However, where i live there is very often a long wait time to get into a long-term care facility, whether private or public so it's hard to say if he was at fault at all.

Also, one could also blame the woman herself depending on her situation. My grandmother has dementia, and in the early stages when she suffered the symptoms but still had most of her wits she refused to leave her home or make plans to have the problem taken care of properly.

Point is, it's very hard to lay blame on any particular person(s) with this case without knowing her person situation.

Yet you feel prety comfortable speculating about the role of the victims here.

One fucking phone call from any of the people who saw or heard this woman. That's all it would have taken.

[Bonam]

So, perhaps the best thing is to take people diagnosed with dementia and just put a bullet in their brains?

BTW: people with dementia don't "decide" to wander off, you moron, nor are they "crazy".

So they are incapable of "deciding" something and yet they are not "crazy"? Sounds self-contradictory to me. As for putting a bullet in someone's brain: perhaps you'd better keep those kinds of ideas to yourself.

I kinda hope someone close to you contracts dementia, perhaps then you'll develp a little sympathy and not be such a fucking tool.

Very mature, wishing suffering onto people you don't know because of posts on an anonymous internet forum.

[guyser]

Yet you feel prety comfortable speculating about the role of the victims here.

One fucking phone call from any of the people who saw or heard this woman. That's all it would have taken.

And yet you feel comfortable speculating about the role of neighbours and what they heard?

At 5am

At -28C

On a Sunday night monday morning when most people are sleeping .

Shit happens, not all of it good.

[Black Dog]

So they are incapable of "deciding" something and yet they are not "crazy"? Sounds self-contradictory to me.

Crazy is a perjorative term that diminishes and stigmatizes suffers of mental illness, which dementia is not anyway.

As for putting a bullet in someone's brain: perhaps you'd better keep those kinds of ideas to yourself.

Just following your logic to its inevitable conclusion.

Very mature, wishing suffering onto people you don't know because of posts on an anonymous internet forum.

Versus to the staggering level of maturity and intellectual heft it took for you to claim this woman would have wandered off and frozen to death eventually anyway.

You get what you give.

[Black Dog]

And yet you feel comfortable speculating about the role of neighbours and what they heard?

At 5am

At -28C

On a Sunday night monday morning when most people are sleeping .

Shit happens, not all of it good.

I'm not speculating. Based on the news report, one neighbour heard screaming and shouting and did nothing. Another one looked out and actually saw her on the sidewalk and did nothing.

[bloodyminded]

I'm not speculating. Based on the news report, one neighbour heard screaming and shouting and did nothing. Another one looked out and actually saw her on the sidewalk and did nothing.

Yes, and this was all pretty clear from the OP.

People heard her. Did nothing. As far as anyone can tell, that's what happened.

[guyser]

From todays paper, Star,...........

"She was lying face-up mere yards from shelter and warmth and rescue — if anyone had seen or heard the disoriented victim’s cries of distress and come quickly to the poor soul’s assistance. But the wind was howling and it was the middle of the night and those few area residents who admit being awakened from sleep by plaintive sounds were not sufficiently alarmed to leave their warm beds and investigate"

Edited January 18, 2011 by guyser

[Bonam]

Crazy is a perjorative term that diminishes and stigmatizes suffers of mental illness, which dementia is not anyway.

Oh no, someone said something that is not politically correct! Whatever shall we do?!?!

Just following your logic to its inevitable conclusion.

No, there is no such conclusion from my "logic". The fact that someone is at an increased risk of dying and that the people around them cannot be blamed for their death does not in any way imply that this person should be purposefully killed.

[Moonlight Graham]

Yet you feel prety comfortable speculating about the role of the victims here.

And? What i said were "could have" scenarios, and i stipulated that so your point is moot.

My point was that it's impossible to point blame at any one person unless we know more details. However, it is a shame the people who heard her cries did not help her. We can blame-game on that one. for sure.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Moonlight Graham

[Black Dog]

Oh no, someone said something that is not politically correct! Whatever shall we do?!?!

Keep being a douche, I guess.

No, there is no such conclusion from my "logic". The fact that someone is at an increased risk of dying and that the people around them cannot be blamed for their death does not in any way imply that this person should be purposefully killed.

Again:

What happened was inevitable. She was a crazy and aged woman that decides to wander around outside on nights when it is -28C. If it wasn't that night and that cause of death, it would only have been something else in the near future anyway.

Basically, this isn't a big deal for you because old people are going to die anyway. Ergo if old people (sorry, old "crazy" people) are going to die anyway, what's wrong with just helping them along?

[Black Dog]

From todays paper, Star,...........

"She was lying face-up mere yards from shelter and warmth and rescue — if anyone had seen or heard the disoriented victim’s cries of distress and come quickly to the poor soul’s assistance. But the wind was howling and it was the middle of the night and those few area residents who admit being awakened from sleep by plaintive sounds were not sufficiently alarmed to leave their warm beds and investigate"

This is horsecrap because we know for a fact people heard her and, in at least one case, saw her. DiManno should read her own paper's coverage.

[guyser]

This is horsecrap because we know for a fact people heard her and, in at least one case, saw her. DiManno should read her own paper's coverage.

Incorrect reporting earlier may lead you to believe this. But Dimanno doesnt know this?

Post up cuz it aint looking like anyone really heard someone in distress.

[Jack Weber]

That's a decent argument. But if i heard someone in distress outside my door, i would go help. From what CBC said, only 2 people heard her (if i recall right).

This woman had dementia. One has to look at the husband, and why was this woman not in a long-term care facility? However, where i live there is very often a long wait time to get into a long-term care facility, whether private or public so it's hard to say if he was at fault at all.

Also, one could also blame the woman herself depending on her situation. My grandmother has dementia, and in the early stages when she suffered the symptoms but still had most of her wits she refused to leave her home or make plans to have the problem taken care of properly.

Point is, it's very hard to lay blame on any particular person(s) with this case without knowing her person situation.

Having gone through situations very similar to this with both my Grandmother's,I can attest to the fact that it's a very complicated issue when dealing with taking away one's independence...

[Black Dog]

Incorrect reporting earlier may lead you to believe this. But Dimanno doesnt know this?

Post up cuz it aint looking like anyone really heard someone in distress.

Fail.

George Cheang, a 22-year-old York University business student who lives on Kennaley Crescent, awoke in the middle of the night to the sound of screaming, but assumed it was neighbours arguing or returning home from a party, and stayed in bed. He would have acted differently if he had he known what was happening, he said, and insisted that most neighbours on the quiet street are friendly, say hello and help each other out.

[guyser]

Fail.

Consider it that if you want , but from your own post.........."but assumed it was neighbours arguing or returning home from a party, and stayed in bed. "

Really cant blame anyone for not realizing what was happening to the poor woman.

[Black Dog]

Consider it that if you want , but from your own post.........."but assumed it was neighbours arguing or returning home from a party, and stayed in bed. "

As long as you realize you were wrong.

Really cant blame anyone for not realizing what was happening to the poor woman.

It's one thing if you're living downtown where things that go yell in the night are commonplace. But this is a quiet suburb we're talking about, so I'd bet nocturnal shouts are bit out of the ordinary. And even if they aren't I'd at least check to ensure my assumptions about the nature of the screams are correct.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Black Dog