Harper bombed in French debate

[maplesyrup]

Ipsos-Reid poll following the French debate on best ideas and policies:

Duceppe: 38%

Layton: 23%

Martin: 19%

Harper: 12%

I think what happened is that Harper had to try and defend his policies and he ran into trouble by trying to avoid answering.

Do you think he will be able to recover tomorrow night?

[August1991]

Look at the Duceppe and Martin results.

Be serious. That's it, that's all.

[idealisttotheend]

It looked to me like Harper was having trouble with his French. Even if he was speaking it okay I think that he was having touble thinking en francais. The english debate will be whole new ball game.

[BQSupporter]

Harper did not make any mistakes and his French was ok, he did not hurt himself in Quebec and I do not expect it to hurt the little support he had here. I would suggust that he become more interest in french and Quebec and build some type of base here if he ever wants to succeed in Quebec.

Of course Maple trys to twist it to benifit his confused political ambitions. What is it Liberal or NDP Maple? Do you even know or do you just don't like the BQ or Conservatives.

[Stoker]

I tend to agree with maplesyrup, in that i don't think that Harper did that great.......don't think he did bad, just not great.....With that said, it's not like the Conservatives are going to lose votes in Quebec because of that performance...........I did like the part where Harper said to Layton something along the lines, that Layton would like to live on a different planet then the Americans

Oh well, IMHO, all three leaders made Martin look like a boob.....

"is Healthcare better today then it was 13 years ago?"

"how much money is left in the EI fund?"

"No we don't agree on anything"

[maplesyrup]

My Webpage

The short version on Monday's French-language debates:

My opinion, and a substantial consensus among my francophone colleagues, was that Duceppe dominated: through his mastery of French; of the files, after 7 years as leader; and of demagogy ("How much money is in the EI surplus?" is a classic opposition question: the answer is long, complex, accurate and impossible to deliver in the 10 seconds Duceppe left Martin. A pathetic cheap shot, but I bet it lost Martin votes.)

My own opinion, unshared by anyone else I asked, was that Layton was the surprise: engaged, polite, optimistic, stronger in French than expected. Everyone else thought he was like that yappy dog in the old Warner Bros. cartoons who won't shut up. I expect Layton to rise from risible Quebec numbers to the low teens. Couldn't find anyone else who agreed.

[August1991]

Look, Duceppe accomplished all he wanted, but Martin changed nothing in the French debate. IMV, Harper was honest.

IMO, watch this English debate. I want to see all.

[Sully]

Unfortunately for Layton, Duceppe and the BQ see eye to eye on many issues with the NDP, but with one striking difference, the BQ will solely focus on Quebec's issues. The NDP does not have that luxury, that ability to focus on Quebec issues will for surely favour BQ in regards to Quebec voters. There is no real strong reason for a Quebecer to vote NDP, they could do more by voting for BQ. I mean chances are pretty good BQ will take a significant majority of Quebec seats and outnumber the amount of NDP seats federally.

But Maple you have to understand that you are a die hard fan of Layton, which is fine we all throw our support behind the person we want to win. That being said, we all have a tendency to focus on everything perfect our leader says and stuff under the rug all the points we wish we could dismiss.

Here is my opinion on the leaders:

Martin - Seems refreshed from his little hiatus, not looking like the senior citizen we have come to know over the last few weeks. Unfortunately for him, he spent the whole night defending himself. Cannot see this debate having any significant Liberal movement in Quebec other than down.

Duceppe - Looks so high strung or like he has a thyroid problem, no one spat him on the back or his eyes will pop out. Duceppe did the best, but thats not a surprise with it being the French debate. Focused his efforts on Mr. Martin and did an effective job at asking the right questions. He will gain Quebec votes.

Harper (the guy who has my vote) - nothing impressive here. Needs someone to light a fire under his ass and wake him up, maybe that will bring forth a lot more passion. Did not expect big things from him in the debate and was not disappointed. Impact on Quebec voters will be a slight, slight improvement for the Cons.

Layton - When does Jack not smile, I could tell him I ran over his dog and he would still be smiling. If only we could all smile like that when we have no chance of winning. Well Jack did alright, but did not give any concrete reasons for Quebec to vote for him over BQ. At times Jack does not put forth enough substance in what he says, sounds too much like fluff (Innovation, Green economy, uses too many buzz words). NDP fortunes will rise only a little in Quebec, for the reasons mentioned above.

[maplesyrup]

I have a hunch our

BQ supporter

here at Mapleleafweb is actually going to vote for Harper.

[BQSupporter]

I would perfer Harper over Martin any day if it came down to that.

What about you Maple? Still confused? NDP or Liberal?

[willy]

Duceppe 57%

Martin 16%

Harper 9%

Layton 8%

These are are the Ipso nubmer of the CTV website.

This measure was who won.

I wonder the other impressions that were left, trust, ideas, second place...

[maplesyrup]

willy.....my numbers are correct.

Ipsos-Reid poll following the French debate on best ideas and policies:

Duceppe: 38%

Layton: 23%

Martin: 19%

Harper: 12%

Harper came in dead last on ideas and policies.

[willy]

Based on a sample of 488 Quebec Francophone voters who answered an internet questionnaire as the debate was being waged Monday night, Ipsos-Reid reports that 57 per cent of respondents said Duceppe was, in their view, the overall winner of the debate.

Trailing far behind in second place was Liberal Leader Paul Martin with only 16 per cent support. Conservative Leader Stephen Harper and NDP Leader Jack Layton registered nine and eight per cent, respectively.

According to Ipsos-Reid pollster Darrell Bricker, the numbers weren't unexpected.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Quoting different numbers.

As for Harper's ideas, the man is brilliant.

[maplesyrup]

Instant poll hands TV debate win to Duceppe

According to Ipsos-Reid pollster Darrell Bricker, the numbers weren't unexpected.

"It was Duceppe's to lose tonight and he didn't," Bricker told CTV.ca.

Surprises, Bricker said, could be found in an analysis of the numbers tracking the leaders' momentum.

"Quite clearly people weren't impressed," Bricker said, referring to the 42 per cent of respondents who said their opinion of Martin had worsened as a result of their performance in tonight's debate.

"He had an opportunity tonight to make a huge impression," Bricker said. "And quite clearly he didn't get there."

On that question, Ipsos-Reid asked respondents to rate who offered the best ideas and policies in the debate.

Again, Duceppe emerged as an uncontested favourite, drawing 38 per cent support. With his similar party platform, the NDP's Layton edged in at second place with 23 per cent support.

Only 12 per cent said Harper expressed the best ideas, while 19 per cent favoured Martin.

The Liberal Leader might find some small consolation in the fact he was still chosen by a slim majority as the best choice for prime minister.

When asked, forgetting for a minute about the federal parties and what they stand for, and forgetting about which party you might be supporting, which of the federal party leaders do you think would make the best Prime Minister of Canada, 27 per cent said Martin.

Duceppe claimed 23 per cent, while 21 per cent chose Harper. Layton was close behind with 19 per cent support.

Results of the Ipsos-Reid instant internet poll are weighted by age, gender and political support. The results are considered accurate within a 4.4 per cent margin of error.

I think these results speak for themselves.

[Bionic Antboy]

Maplesyrup vs. Willy...

Using the same statistics no less. Gotta love it.

From the same site....

When asked, forgetting for a minute about the federal parties and what they stand for, and forgetting about which party you might be supporting, which of the federal party leaders do you think would make the best Prime Minister of Canada, 27 per cent said Martin.

Duceppe claimed 23 per cent, while 21 per cent chose Harper. Layton was close behind with 19 per cent support.

What does it all mean? None of the leaders have a strong enough personality to appear as a STRONG lead for Prime Ministerial material (which I agree with), but Duccepe smoked them in the debating arena (which I agree with), and when it comes to policy the Bloq is tops, with a surprising number for the NDP.

Since we're all playing armchair pundits, this is what I would tell each of them for the English debate.

To the PM: Learn your own numbers better. Focus on the highlights of your record (there ARE some, after all). Be strong and leaderly, but NOT condescending.

To Harper: Open up more. A lot of Canadians are painting you with a brush, because you're not supplying them with enough material. If you play it TOO cool and aloof, you aren't going to gain new ground.

To Layton: Optimism is one thing, but roll up the sleeves and be more of a pit bull. More policy details. Shake off the "nagging nellies" that the previous two NDP leaders cloaked the party in.

To Duceppe: Go get 'em. You don't have much to lose outside of Quebec, so focus on ideals, not details. You got the debating chops to do it, just tone down a LITTLE bit for English Canada.

Just my take.

[Argus]

I think what happened is that Harper had to try and defend his policies and he ran into trouble by trying to avoid answering.

Do you think he will be able to recover tomorrow night?

Harper is reputed to be an excellent debator. But of course, that depends to a large extent on ones vocabulary and speaking ability, and his was clearly not as good as the others. Unsurprising. Layton was born in Montreal, Martin spent most of his life there, and Duceppe was French.

But all Harper had to do was present himself as a moderate, intelligent, reasoned voice. And he did that.

The one who needed to shine was Martin, and he failed.

[falling leaf]

Maplesyrup

Harper came in dead last on ideas and policies.

I don't think so! Layton looked like Hitler with his beady little eyes and sneeky grin .

Can't wait to get his hands on Canadians hard earned money.

Martin looked like a fool.

Duceppe Was very good , he would make a good prime minister if he would think of canada as a whole country . He was interested in what is more important for his province for Quebec.

Harper was great

[Bionic Antboy]

Maplesyrup

Harper came in dead last on ideas and policies.

I don't think so! Layton looked like Hitler with his beady little eyes and sneeky grin .

Can't wait to get his hands on Canadians hard earned money.

Martin looked like a fool.

Duceppe Was very good , he would make a good prime minister if he would think of canada as a whole country . He was interested in what is more important for his province for Quebec.

Harper was great

Hitler?!? C'mon, trotting out that tired old canard only suggests that you lack anything more substantive to say about the debate itself.

[sarcasm]OH NO!!! He has a moustache, JUST LIKE HITLER!!! EVIL EVIL!!![/sarcasm]

Anyways, maplesyrup was pointing out what the Ipsos-Reid questionnaire among Quebec francophone voters revealed.

[playfullfellow]

Martins main goal was to make the other leaders look worse than he is and ultimately he will fail because of his track record of broken promises and scandals. Layton, Harper and Duceppe are passionate about the parties policies, Martin is trying to buy votes. The Liberals have not stood for anything since Trudeau hence their wishy washy policies. Right or wrong, the other parties stand behind their policies. No doubt people will view Harper as the loser because his french is not as strong as the other leaders. Duceppe of course will come out the strongest which leaves the other 2 to the middle. I think the English debate will be a different ballgame all together. Layton and Harper will learn from their mistakes in the French debate but Martin will arrogantly believe he won and do the same again. I doubt this will win him any browny points in the West. Harper and Layton will outclass Martin in this debate, as long as Martin allows them to speak. And in all reality, the ROC of Canada is what will matter the most to Harper and Layton, this is where they have to make headway to defeat Martin.