Scientists Challenge UN and Gore

[Guest TrueMetis]

AGW is a hypothesis. It is a theory. Fourth graders know that virtually any phenomena in natural science, no matter how much supportive empirical evidence exists, are theory, not fact.

Fourth graders should know that theories are made up of facts and that hypothesis's are not theories. With this post you have literally used the exact same argument creationists use. I mean do I really have to go through the whole theory of gravity, germ theory, heliocentric theory thing with you?

[jbg]

Also the effect CO2 has on temperature isn't a hypothesis is substantiated fact and basic physics, the type of basic physic fourth graders use in their science projects.

There's a bias here.

If so-called "scientists" find that climate is naturally quite variable, why th enee to fund studies at university, governmental and U.N. levels? There wouldn't be any such need. No problem = no money.

Similarly, if the "problem" of climate change is cyclical, trying to change it is not feasible, and the scientists know it. They don't want to lose their liveliood.

[Michael Hardner]

There's a bias here.

If so-called "scientists" find that climate is naturally quite variable, why th enee to fund studies at university, governmental and U.N. levels? There wouldn't be any such need. No problem = no money.

Similarly, if the "problem" of climate change is cyclical, trying to change it is not feasible, and the scientists know it. They don't want to lose their liveliood.

It`s not cyclical. The earth is getting warmer.

Scientists risk losing their livelihood if they publish false theories that can be easily debunked. Richard Lindzen seems to do quite well for himself, and he`s a skeptic.

[Saipan]

The earth is getting warmer.

Where?

I wish.

[Michael Hardner]

Where?

I wish.

You`re trolling again, or you`ve lost your memory.

[wyly]

You`re trolling again, or you`ve lost your memory.

trolling? I don't think he understands what that is...I would suggest a simpler reason but I'm behaving myself as Saipan is still polite and respectful and forum member..

[GostHacked]

Check this out. Not really sure if the BP tragedy really had anything to do with the breakage, but this is pretty significance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kukY9DaF5so&feature=related

http://www.rense.com/general91/OilSpill-CNR.pdf

http://www.lnf.infn.it/public/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1〈=en

Apparently the Gulf Stream has been slowing for some time. But now that this loop is broken, it is part of the reason you are seeing the current weather in Europe.

[Saipan]

Apparently the Gulf Stream has been slowing for some time. But now that this loop is broken, it is part of the reason you are seeing the current weather in Europe.

Could it influence weather elsewhere, like Asia?

[GostHacked]

Could it influence weather elsewhere, like Asia?

I guess it could, the Gulf Stream is just part of the global ocean current that encompasses the whole planet.

[Saipan]

I guess it could, the Gulf Stream is just part of the global ocean current that encompasses the whole planet.

How did the Gulf Stream acquired the heat - or cold?

[Bonam]

obviously you're not smarter than a fifth grader otherwise you'd know the scientific definition for theory...

Theory-A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is generally accepted to be TRUE.

Like String theory? I don't think being "generally accepted as true" (whatever the heck that means) is a necessary requirement for something to be called a "theory".

[wyly]

Check this out. Not really sure if the BP tragedy really had anything to do with the breakage, but this is pretty significance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kukY9DaF5so&feature=related

http://www.rense.com/general91/OilSpill-CNR.pdf

http://www.lnf.infn.it/public/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1〈=en

Apparently the Gulf Stream has been slowing for some time. But now that this loop is broken, it is part of the reason you are seeing the current weather in Europe.

the narrator is making some very big leaps of logic on a single event..ICE AGE!...I don't doubt the data but there is nothing to say this anything more than temporary or that it hasn't happened before...the gulf stream does effect NW europe's weather but so does the jet stream, the tilt of the earth and a likely a half dozen other forces...

[Guest TrueMetis]

There's a bias here.

If so-called "scientists" find that climate is naturally quite variable, why th enee to fund studies at university, governmental and U.N. levels? There wouldn't be any such need. No problem = no money.

Similarly, if the "problem" of climate change is cyclical, trying to change it is not feasible, and the scientists know it. They don't want to lose their liveliood.

Yes all scientists are corrupt, and of course no one would be interested in learning about climate if it was not warming.

[TimG]

no one would be interested in learning about climate if it was not warming.

This is true. Climate science was an academic backwater until the 90s. All the attention brought by CAGW scare has turned climate scientists in household names and brought billions into the institutions that employ them. A lot of people would lose a lot of money if the CAGW scare turned out to be nothing. It is silly to dismiss that conflict of interest as irrelevant. The question we should be asking is how to manage the conflict of interest - something we have been doing for years with drug companies and pharmaceuticals.

[Saipan]

Yes all scientists are corrupt

Not really. Just greedy like all humans.

and of course no one would be interested in learning about climate if it was not warming.

Either unusual warming or unusual cooling. Or any natural disaster - real or imagined.

[jbg]

It`s not cyclical. The earth is getting warmer.

I'm worried because it keeps on getting darker. Each and every day. Do we wind up without daylight?

[Bryan]

It`s not cyclical. The earth is getting warmer.

If only proclaiming it could make it so.

[Pliny]

This is where the whole Climate Change skepticism really turns to denial and Climate Trutherism, a la 9/11.

No single human has the power to hijack academia, and every open discussion out there to perpetuate a lie on this scale. It's just silly to think so.

The whole environmental movement has been around since the fifties, Michael. It wasn't born with Maurice Strong. He just makes a great chicken little along with the likes of Al Gore.

It is quite easy to see the arguments for peak oil, climate change, and make a case for it. We are going to run out of oil sometime. We can't continue to populate the planet and dump crap into the environment with wanton abandon. I don't think there is any argument against that. Most of us are conscious of it and the necessity to address such issues. It just takes political fear mongering to stir the pot and work up a frenzy. It's the "political will" that environmentalists have been demanding for at least half a century on an organized basis and which the world wide socialist movement, headquarters in New York at the UN, has high-jacked as a vehicle for the erosion and eventual elimination of national sovereignty and the development of a global identity for the masses to associate with.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Pliny

[Pliny]

If that's so, then really none of us should respond to him maybe. I mean how many times do you really want to have to spike that silly 'ice age' thing ?

It took quite a bit to spike that silly ice age thing back then. Some people, interested in scientific theory, were genuinely worried. A few scientists developed climate change theories and had the ear of government and the media grabbed on to it.

We really need to spike political solutions that do nothing for the environment and serve only to centralize the power of government.

[GostHacked]

the narrator is making some very big leaps of logic on a single event..ICE AGE!...I don't doubt the data but there is nothing to say this anything more than temporary or that it hasn't happened before...the gulf stream does effect NW europe's weather but so does the jet stream, the tilt of the earth and a likely a half dozen other forces...

Well with the Gulf Loop broken, the warmer water is not getting circulated as much northward as before when the loop was not broken. So that will have some drastic and immediate effects on weather on the east coast of the US/Canada and the cold weather we see in the eastern part of Europe.

Maybe it will fix itself soon. If that continues and does not correct itself, expect more colder weather those areas currently affected.

[Pliny]

it's very gradual thing isn't it, if I were a farmer I might have noticed a difference but being an urban dweller it isn't high on my list of things I'll notice from one year to the next...and it's not as if we have a recognizable fixed event that signals the first day of fall or spring....but I have noticed a difference over the last ten years, the winters we have now are not the winters of my youth, it is definitely milder...and if it's milder then logically that fall comes later and spring sooner if we measure it by observed weather and not some official fixed date on the calendar...

so I guess if I consider myself an average person, I have definitely noticed a change...

There has been a change in the mean temperature of 1.5 degrees over the last century and you noticed it? Wow! The winters are so much milder over the last ten years by at least .5 of a degree. Very noticeable.

I lived in Vancouver in the fifties and I remember skating in January on flooded frozen fields for about two weeks some years and not at all in others. I saw some people skating on a pond last year for about a week. Most years it doesn't get cold enough to skate outside. But sometimes we get a week or two of weather cold enough to skate outside. It hasn't changed much at all. I remember the daffodils coming up in February and they still do sometimes, sometimes it is March. Of course during the Olympics in February 2010 more people probably noticed the daffodils. They wanted lots of snow but worried that global warming would make delivery equivocal. All that because the mean temperature has risen 1.5 degrees over the last century.

I really have trouble linking that to shrinking glaciers. For ice to melt it has to be above zero. If the temperature is minus 20 it isn't going to make much difference if the temperature is minus 18.5.

And if there are a few extra days where the temperature may be above 0 because of a 1.5 degree difference that has occurred over the last century, and it isn't even consistent over the years, is that enough to melt massive glaciers? I guess if you're convinced of global warming it is. If glaciers are receding there has to be something other than a 1.5 degree change in temperature over a century to do it.

[Pliny]

Not really. Just greedy like all humans.

All humans are not greedy. They just want the best for themselves, their families and communities. Only those who say everyone else is greedy try and get by in life by running that guilt trip on this natural tendency for humans to improve their lot. Even they are only trying to improve their lot, albeit less legitimately than you and I.

[Pliny]

the narrator is making some very big leaps of logic on a single event..ICE AGE!...I don't doubt the data but there is nothing to say this anything more than temporary or that it hasn't happened before...the gulf stream does effect NW europe's weather but so does the jet stream, the tilt of the earth and a likely a half dozen other forces...

Oh no! Not that ice age thing again! How many times do we have to spike that?

[Michael Hardner]

If only proclaiming it could make it so.

If only ? Do you want it to get warmer ?

No, the scientific proof is out there, unless you're a conspiracy theorist I suppose.

[Michael Hardner]

...has high-jacked as a vehicle for the erosion and eventual elimination of national sovereignty and the development of a global identity for the masses to associate with.

Oh, but they're only one player working towards globalization, sometimes called New World Order by paranoiacs. And fear is used as a motivator to change minds every day.

Part of the problem is that issues are communicated as if everyone listening is an idiot. It's not true, only a significant minority are idiots, a majority don't care, another minority is smart but biased, and another small but important minority is smart, informed and open minded.