An Indian Industry has emerged amid the wreckage

[CANADIEN]

Not at all. The root of Canadiens as I understand it, are not far from the aboriginal roots you dispute.

Nice attempt at ducking after insulting me and proving (I'll be nice today, icnredible stupidity in the face of clear evidence on this Web site that I know my roots as a French-Canadian and therefore a CANADIAN).

The roots of French-Canadians are not the roots of Aboriginal purpose, and it is poor understanding of facts to argue otherwise. BTW, it is not the roots of Aboriginal Nations I dispute, and if you believe that your reading skills are even poorer than my writing skills. What I dispute is the notion that First Nations are sovereign nations in 2010. Do yourself a favour and don't try to attribute to me opinions that I don't have and haven't expressed.

[CANADIEN]

A Rwanda type solution is not an option even though most Canadians would surely be calling for it.

I almost missed this, which is one of the most irresponsible and insulting pieces of drivel written on this site (and I have seen bad). Decency would demand that you retract it, but I do not expect you to do it. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Edited November 6, 2010 by CANADIEN

[Jack Weber]

A Rwanda type solution is not an option even though most Canadians would surely be calling for it.

Are you suggesting that Canadians want to see an entire race of people completely wiped out in a bloody mass masacre???

If so,what planet are you on?

Edited November 6, 2010 by Jack Weber

[charter.rights]

Your central point, that in 2010 First Nations are sovereign nations, has not been made.

Well yes it has. Their self-identification is as valid as the government saying they are Canadians. Until it is settled one way or the other, they are right.

Edited November 6, 2010 by charter.rights

[charter.rights]

Nice attempt at ducking after insulting me and proving (I'll be nice today, icnredible stupidity in the face of clear evidence on this Web site that I know my roots as a French-Canadian and therefore a CANADIAN).

The roots of French-Canadians are not the roots of Aboriginal purpose, and it is poor understanding of facts to argue otherwise. BTW, it is not the roots of Aboriginal Nations I dispute, and if you believe that your reading skills are even poorer than my writing skills. What I dispute is the notion that First Nations are sovereign nations in 2010. Do yourself a favour and don't try to attribute to me opinions that I don't have and haven't expressed.

Maybe you should ask the Pur Laine. Their roots are based on independence, guarantees from the Crown and self government.

[charter.rights]

Are you suggesting that Canadians want to see an entire race of people completely wiped out in a bloody mass masacre???

If so,what planet are you on?

You should get out a bit more.

The comments section in every major news media in Canada are filled with Canadian vitriol aimed at aboriginal people. Racism in Canada abounds.

Edited November 6, 2010 by charter.rights

[Saipan]

Racism in Canada abounds.

Mostly among indians.

[charter.rights]

Mostly among against indians.

I fixed it for you.

[Saipan]

I fixed it for you.

Any evidence?

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Ahenakew+anti+Semitic+tirade+played+retrial/988914/story.html

[CANADIEN]

Well yes it has. Their self-identification is as valid as the government saying they are Canadians. Until it is settled one way or the other, they are right.

No it hasn't, except to you. Being sovereign is not something a nation identifies itself as being. It is something that is being recognized by other nations. And anecdotal "evidence" (we can travel to 50 country with our passport) aside, that has not occured.

[CANADIEN]

Maybe you should ask the Pur Laine. Their roots are based on independence, guarantees from the Crown and self government.

I've asked myself, and guess what:

when was the last time there was an independent French-Canadian nation?

Edited November 6, 2010 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

You should get out a bit more.

The comments section in every major news media in Canada are filled with Canadian vitriol aimed at aboriginal people. Racism in Canada abounds.

Good advice. Follow it yourself.

Indeed, there is no lack of loony bins (also known as racists) showing their stripes in the media. You will also find quite a few populating First nations websites. But I haven't seen a lot of calls for geneocide. Equally important, people who spend their time writing to newspapers or arguing on the Web (and yes, that includes all of us here) are hardly representative of anyone but themselves.

AS I said, somebody with a sense of decency would have withdrawn that comment about a majority of Canadians wanting another Rwanda. Not surprisingly, you won't.

[charter.rights]

Indeed, there is no lack of loony bins (also known as racists) showing their stripes in the media. You will also find quite a few populating First nations websites. But I haven't seen a lot of calls for geneocide. Equally important, people who spend their time writing to newspapers or arguing on the Web (and yes, that includes all of us here) are hardly representative of anyone but themselves.

"But I haven't seen a lot of calls for geneocide."

How about this stuff:

Call in the army....

Too bad residential schools aren't still around today....

They don't need any money, let them fix their water problem themselves...

Only the odd one is too stupid enough to out and out call for the slaughtering of natives (although it does show up from time to time) but racism in Canada is subtle and politefully ignorant.

United Nations Convention on Genocide

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious groups, as such:

a. Killing members of the group;

b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.

c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.[/i}

(Canadians have been and still are guilty on calling on many of these points as a solution to the "Indian problem")

Article III

. The following acts shall be punished: a) Genocide;

Conspiracy to commit genocide; c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide; d) Attempt to commit genocide; e) Complicity in genocide.

When was the last time Canada, or Canadians were called up on charges? No? Not ever? That is because what many people call for, most Canadians sit back quietly without even a flinch at the thought.

This kind of vitriol can be found daily on websites and comments sections of major media sites. There is no need to retract the truth.

Edited November 6, 2010 by charter.rights

[CANADIEN]

"But I haven't seen a lot of calls for geneocide."

How about this stuff:

Call in the army....

Too bad residential schools aren't still around today....

They don't need any money, let them fix their water problem themselves...

Only the odd one is too stupid enough to out and out call for the slaughtering of natives (although it does show up from time to time) but racism in Canada is subtle and politefully ignorant.

United Nations Convention on Genocide

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious groups, as such:

a. Killing members of the group;

b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.

c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.[/i}

(Canadians have been and still are guilty on calling on many of these points as a solution to the "Indian problem")

Article III

. The following acts shall be punished: a) Genocide;

Conspiracy to commit genocide; c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide; d) Attempt to commit genocide; e) Complicity in genocide.

When was the last time Canada, or Canadians were called up on charges? No? Not ever? That is because what many people call for, most Canadians sit back quietly without even a flinch at the thought.

This kind of vitriol can be found daily on websites and comments sections of major media sites. There is no need to retract the truth.

The lie... YOUR lie... is that a majority of Canadians want another Rwanda right here within our borders. If you will not have decency to retract that lie, then there's nothing more any of us need to hear from a hateful small mind like yours...

ignored

[charter.rights]

The lie... YOUR lie... is that a majority of Canadians want another Rwanda right here within our borders. If you will not have decency to retract that lie, then there's nothing more any of us need to hear from a hateful small mind like yours...

ignored

You lost the argument. Good now go away.

[Wild Bill]

The lie... YOUR lie... is that a majority of Canadians want another Rwanda right here within our borders. If you will not have decency to retract that lie, then there's nothing more any of us need to hear from a hateful small mind like yours...

ignored

You're just wasting your time. You can't argue with someone who defines racism as any act of disagreement with a native position, of any kind about any issue, anywhere.

The same argument posits that red is always right and white always wrong, but that somehow is not racist itself. In effect, only whites can be racist and the natives are always peace, love, and dove.

It is mindless zealotry, bordering on insanity. Nothing more.

[CANADIEN]

You're just wasting your time. You can't argue with someone who defines racism as any act of disagreement with a native position, of any kind about any issue, anywhere.

The same argument posits that red is always right and white always wrong, but that somehow is not racist itself. In effect, only whites can be racist and the natives are always peace, love, and dove.

It is mindless zealotry, bordering on insanity. Nothing more.

Racism DOES exist in this country. But to argue that a majority of Canadians want thugs armed with axes and guns roaming through the reservations or downtown Winnipeg killing any Native they can lay their hands on. Insanity is indeed a good word to describe people who think that's the case.

[Wild Bill]

Racism DOES exist in this country. But to argue that a majority of Canadians want thugs armed with axes and guns roaming through the reservations or downtown Winnipeg killing any Native they can lay their hands on. Insanity is indeed a good word to describe people who think that's the case.

No argument here! I'm just pointing out that its CR's style to call anyone who disagrees with any native issue a racist who wants to light torches and fire shotguns, thus combining ad hominem with strawman at the same time.

[Shwa]

Nobody - at least certainly not me - said First Nations can't make laws for themselves. However, an entity's ability to self-govern doesn't equal full sovereignty when that entity is subordinate to a higher body, such as First Nations being under the sovereignty of the Crown, as per the Royal Proclamation 1763, and the authority of the parliament of Canada, as per S.91 of the Constitution Act 1867. As I said already, the form of government First Nations use is required by and set down by an act of the Canadian parliament. (Similarly, Toronto Council, for instance, can make laws for the city but may only do so in the way the Crown in Right of Ontario stipulates through provincial law.) First Nations and their governments are therefore not sovereign.+

And what I am saying is that there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits First Nations to obtaining a recognition for rights to, or a recognition of previous rights of, sovereignty - whatever definition of sovereignty or self-government particular First Nations and the Governmet of Canada can agree on. I think by now that is pretty clear, unless you have something else to cite.

Do you?

[Jack Weber]

You should get out a bit more.

The comments section in every major news media in Canada are filled with Canadian vitriol aimed at aboriginal people. Racism in Canada abounds.

I should get out more???

I'll bet I'm on the Six Nations Reserve more than you almost every year....

You said that most Candians would prefer a Rwanda type of situation.In other words,a genocidal massacre...

I have no doubt there are the usual suspect Canadian bigots who say idiotic things about all sorts of non-Caucasian ethnic groups...I don't really think most Canadians want a Rwanda type of ethnic cleansing going on...

Speaking of getting out more,the next time you go through Hamilton on your way to the reserve,stop off at the Chedoke Booby Hatch...It's clear your view of the muderous intent of most Canadians belongs in a padded room...

Edited November 6, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Saipan]

I'll bet I'm on the Six Nations Reserve more than you almost every year....

Do you hunt in May?

[charter.rights]

I should get out more???

I'll bet I'm on the Six Nations Reserve more than you almost every year....

You do realize that we are not talking about Six Nations of the Grand. Six Nations Haudenosaunee Confederacy is much bigger then that and encompasses a number of territories all over Ontario, Quebec, New York and other parts of the US including Oklahoma. Of course the discussion is mainly about Canada's fiduciary because the US separated. However, the Confederacy exists independent of Canada or the US...the latter recognizing they are separate sovereign nations....

[Saipan]

the Confederacy exists independent of Canada or the US...

On Ork.

Just like Ozarkia, Palestine and Sudetens.

[charter.rights]

On Ork.

Just like Ozarkia, Palestine and Sudetens.

No. More like Taiwan.

Edited November 7, 2010 by charter.rights

[Saipan]

No. More like Taiwan.

Not like Tibet?