Harper's View

[Evening Star]

Sometimes I vote Liberal and sometimes I vote NDP but I want those to be two distinct ideological options.

To be clear, I would enthusiastically support a coalition but any coalition needs to be between parties that have distinct identities of their own.

[Bryan]

Given recent happenings in the UK, I doubt that would be such a scary thought to people. I know you guys will try, but I doubt you'd succeed.

This just in: Canada is not the UK.

[capricorn]

Calling the NDP socialists doesn't somehow make them so. They really aren't.

The following are extracts from the NDP's vision statement.

Facilitating access to investment capital from financial institutions, union funds, and government agencies

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Establishing fiscal reserves during times of surplus to help create investment opportunities

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Improving protection and support for credit unions, cooperatives and mutual companies

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Ensuring that the banks provide reasonable access to credit at fair interest rates

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Protecting crown corporations against privatization

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Improving the public sector’s role as a wealth creator and a major provider of jobs

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Opposing all forms of privatization and in supporting the delivery of all public services by public sector workers

http://www.ndp.ca/vision

Those are the ones that stuck out immediately upon first reading. You may believe the NDP is not socialist. But in reviewing where they stand on the issues, I believe they are.

Also, with even a few points of improvement by the Liberals, the Bloc would be a non issue.

Actually, I think if Quebecers foresaw the possibility of a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition, they might vote in such a way to send more Bloc MPs to Ottawa to strengthen the Bloc's voice in the House of Commons and within the coalition. The better to advance Quebec's agenda.

[Smallc]

This just in: Canada is not the UK.

Well, our governing systems are near identical....ours is built off of theirs.

[Smallc]

Those are the ones that stuck out immediately upon first reading. You may believe the NDP is not socialist. But in reviewing where they stand on the issues, I believe they are.

If you think that's socialist....then I suppose that all of Europe is. I don't think that they are. There is nothing really all that scarry about the NDP...especially if they were in a coalition with the Liberals.

Actually, I think if Quebecers foresaw the possibility of a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition,

I'm not sure how you could foresee a coalition.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Smallc

[capricorn]

There is nothing really all that scarry about the NDP...especially if they were in a coalition with the Liberals.

Oh the NDP doesn't scare me one bit. On the other hand, a NDP/Libs/Bloc triad.....HELLLLPPPPP!!!!!

I'm not sure how you could foresee a coalition.

Suffice it that if Quebecers think the Conservatives are to win a reduced minority, that could be the signal of an impending coalition, hence the motivation to elect more Bloc MPs.

[Bonam]

Suffice it that if Quebecers think the Conservatives are to win a reduced minority, that could be the signal of an impending coalition, hence the motivation to elect more Bloc MPs.

People who think that way will be voting for Bloc anyway. Having more Bloc MPs in the house gives Quebec greater influence and benefits it, whether those MPs are part of a coalition or not.

[Evening Star]

At least on paper, the NDP are social democrats straight up. Some people see social democracy as a form of socialism so it doesn't seem too far off to me if someone refers to them as "socialist" (in the same way that, yes, most of Western Europe is "socialist"). They do advocate some steps to reform the power relationships within the economy and promote community and co-operative ownership with an expanded public sector. It's pretty obvious that they're not going to e.g. abolish private property or nationalize the means of production altogether. In practice, it gets a little complicated though. When they've actually been elected, they do sometimes tend to govern more like left-leaning liberals than anything else. (Is e.g. Darrell Dexter's green energy plan substantially different from Dalton McGuinty's?)

[Bryan]

Well, our governing systems are near identical....ours is built off of theirs.

The systems are based on the same principles, the expectations of the electorate are vastly different.

[Smallc]

So you think that the people of the UK expected a coalition? I highly doubt that. They have had less experience with minorities and coalitions than we have going back about 100 years.

[capricorn]

People who think that way will be voting for Bloc anyway.

I suppose so Bonam.

Having more Bloc MPs in the house gives Quebec greater influence and benefits it, whether those MPs are part of a coalition or not.

The Bloc in a coalition government with the Liberals and the NDP would probably give it more clout than they have now. The thought of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[capricorn]

So you think that the people of the UK expected a coalition? I highly doubt that.

In my case, I'll simply say I don't honestly know.

[Shakeyhands]

The Bloc in a coalition government with the Liberals and the NDP would probably give it more clout than they have now. The thought of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Did you have a bad taste in your mouth when Harper attempted it?

[ToadBrother]

So you think that the people of the UK expected a coalition? I highly doubt that. They have had less experience with minorities and coalitions than we have going back about 100 years.

Actually, to some extent, I think they did push for a hung Parliament. There were pretty strong hints going back to the previous December that suggested very heavily that the electorate wasn't going to give anyone a clear mandate. Now whether they expected a coalition or not is harder to answer, but surely the electorate must have seen that it was a strong possibility, though I suspect many had thought it would be a Labour-LibDem coalition.

[ToadBrother]

I suppose so Bonam.

The Bloc in a coalition government with the Liberals and the NDP would probably give it more clout than they have now. The thought of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

You must have been pretty angry when Harper thought of it first.

[capricorn]

Did you have a bad taste in your mouth when Harper attempted it?

Sorry, but no, because at the time of Harper's 2004 letter to Clarkson, I wasn't paying attention to politics. What got me interested in politics was watching the Gomery Inquiry unfold. That's when I pulled my head out of the sand.

[capricorn]

You must have been pretty angry when Harper thought of it first.

How could I get angry at something I didn't even know existed?

[Evening Star]

I guess I must have not been paying attention at the time of that 2004 letter as well but it puzzles me if they were in fact suggesting a coalition. (Were they?) What would Layton have been hoping to gain?? (I can easily see how an NDP-Bloc alliance would work but not any sort of alliance that includes both the NDP and Conservatives.)

[ToadBrother]

I guess I must have not been paying attention at the time of that 2004 letter as well but it puzzles me if they were in fact suggesting a coalition. (Were they?) What would Layton have been hoping to gain?? (I can easily see how an NDP-Bloc alliance would work but not any sort of alliance that includes both the NDP and Conservatives.)

Who would have thought the Tories and the LibDems would have hopped into bed together in the UK? Politics makes for strange bedfellows sometimes. As to Layton, I think he'd marry the Devil if he thought he could get into cabinet.

[capricorn]

I guess I must have not been paying attention at the time of that 2004 letter as well

Maybe it's because they didn't hold an official signing ceremony.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/12/01/coalition-talks.html

[Smallc]

Actually, to some extent, I think they did push for a hung Parliament.

Oh, that very well may be, but I doubt they expected a coalition. Some may have thought of it, but I doubt the average Brit knew much about the possibility.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Smallc

[Visionseeker]

The Brits have had labour governments since WW2. Electing a government which includes centrist liberal democrats was no big shock or bother. Canadians have never had an NDP or separatist government, however, and electing a government which had NDP and separatist components would alarm a hell of a lot of people who are not conservatives.

Further, having to bring in bills to placate those two, socialist bills for the NDP, pro-Quebec bills for the BQ, would alarm people even more. As Liberal popularity plummeted, the Liberals would be forced to take strong stands against their partners, which would inevitably bring about the fall of the coalition. That's where harper might get his majority.

Um, 65 - 70% of the electorate consistently support "anything but conservative". Their wouldn't be "socialist bills" or "pro-Quebec bills", but rather consensus bills reflecting the values of all coalition participants. Attempts to pander uniquely and directly to any coalition partner would lead to revolts within coalition caucuses. All would understand that the absences of consensus would precipitate the uncertainty of an election, so consensus becomes the overiding aim. Call it politics of the necessary.

The real risk in a coalition is to the junior partners having some of their MPs and some of their support base defecting to the senior party. The more people from different backgrounds are required to work towards common causes, the more they begin to see themselves as common to each other and more open to further collaboration.

An overture for a coalition in the present context would be resisted much more stridently by members of the NDP and BQ than within the ranks of the Liberal Party simply because the Liberals would need only to draw some cream from both camps in order to weaken the remainders significantly. Both the NDP and the BQ can ill afford the impression of the tide turning red in the "anything but Harper" flow.

[Jack Weber]

My name is actually kind of a joke name. Underneath, it says, "just a little". I'm just a little bit c....conservative.

No you're not!!!

You're a two dimensional right wing ideologue!!!