Catholic Voter in Canada

[Black Aquinas]

Hi. I'm new to this discussion board, and, as you might have guessed, I'm Canadian and Catholic. My dilemma is this: I am torn between two political parties. As a practicing Catholic, I am firmly commited to the pro-life cause. I cannot in good conscience vote for a political party who supports abortion-on-demand. With that said, I am a staunch opponent of the neo-liberal agenda of the Conservative Party. Of course, I am equally opposed to the socialist economics espoused by the New Democratic Party. I am also commited to the ecological wisdom of the Green Party as well as their concern about centralized power, whether capitalist or socialist. I would like to see a more decentralized, community-based economics, with a healthy environment. And yet, I do not wish to obtain all this at the price of a million aborted children. So I'm torn.

What is a poor Catholic to do? I cannot accept the anti-religious, pro-abortion stances of the NDP or the Liberal Party. I'm stuck between the Green Party and the Conservative Party. The Christian Heritage Party has been suggested as an alternative, but I have to admit reservations for any party which is explicitly a party for only one segment of the population. Thus the anti-authoritarian in me is pulled towards the Green Party while the pro-lifer in me is pulled towards the Green Party. Help!

On a side note, I'm not interested in another pro-life vs. pro-choice debate. The matter is unegotiable at this point. I'm more interested in hearing from Catholics or other people in similar positions, torn between the social gospel and a desire to protect the most vulnerable member in society, namely the unborn child. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

God bless.

[DAC]

I’m not Roman Catholic, but share most of your pro-life convictions. I’d like to be ecologically conscious, too, but I find the Green party extreme. If I had the choice I would vote Christian Heritage Party, with the goal of beginning to build a voice for sanity in the country. Without that choice, I’d suggest you consider the Conservatives. Ecology may not be high on their agenda, but they are at least open to those who are pro-life. The other parties allow pro-lifers to be members, but really work to shut them down. And the Conservatives are committed to smaller government and government which is more local.

[CanadianPatriot]

I would definately love to see the Christian Heritage Party come to power, however their beliefs are not too popular with the crowd nowadays. However between the two ´´big guys´´ right now-- the Conservatives and the Liberals, the Conservatives are definately the way to go. I still don´t agree with everything the Conservatives stand for but it seems to be the ´lesser of two evils´at this point.

[Black Aquinas]

I like what the motto of the Christian Heritage Party is: 'the only wasted vote is a vote for a party that doesn't share your convictions.' Like you, I'm torn in this election though my battle is between the CHP, the Conservative Party, and the Green Party. Though I'm a social conservative, I disagree with much of the Conservative Party's economic platform, as well as Harper's endorsement of the death penalty. What I want to see is the Catholic Worker running society! But yes, I agree a Christian Heritage Party victory would be rewarding. What I wonder is, even though the CHP doesn't have a chance, voting for them won't force the Conservative Party to take a more conservative stance on abortion. The vote would be saying, 'We're interested in social conservatism, not economic conservatism.' What do you think?

[willy]

When you to closely mix political policy with Christian belief you run a risk of legalizing the gospel and that is not it. The gospel is not rules to be followed but one of hearts changing.

CS Lewis has some great essays on this very subject.

Look at the social gospel you talk of. How would the bible talk about making that a reality in your community? For it to be a true reality it would involve Christ and a grass roots community service model with the spirit at work. For this to truly happen you don't need government, but you do need them to stay out of the way.

Governments need to allow for the world to be as it is. As Christians we are called to be in the world but not of the world. God loves all people and he also calls us to personally do the same.

Be wary of parties that speak of a righteous nation enforced by the state.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Black Aquinas,

As willy states,

When you to closely mix political policy with Christian belief you run a risk of legalizing the gospel and that is not it

That is the problem with Islam and Israel, for they have taken scripture written millenia ago and make it law today.

For the belief system of 'do unto others...' the NDP should be the logical choice, but I do not think that they represent themselves very well. Giving money away is not the answer. perhaps you should examine which party represents your value system, then join that party to urge them to follow what they say.

[Digby]

I don't think there is much hope of getting good goverment it will most likely keep getting worse and worse ,as the godlessness in our society grows .

I probly should be voteing For the Conservitive party as im probly more like what they claim in morals .

But history proves none of them are what they claim ,and corruption is rampet .

Im voteing NDP for one reason only , the local cadidate is a friend and good person and the setting LIberal former Fisheries minister Robert Theabeau ,I suspect is maybe the most corrupt of all liberals . The fishery has been completly distroyed by corporate greed in his Rideing while he was minister of fisheries he he turns his eyes away because of their large checkbooks i suspect. I fear he will be reelected . Im only hoping he will never see alot of power again .

Im certainly not for all NDP policies , Same sex marrages ,Abortion , Its very hard for me to vote in this direction , Only the Local canidate is appealing to me ,not left wing veiws .......... This liberal goverment has got to Go folks I hope the majority of you agree , Not only are they very corrupt ,they hardly even hide it .

The Quebec Sponser ship Scandel i think is nothing to some of the stuff they are doing with tax dollars around here . They give one liberal friendly guy 12,000 ,000 for his fishing licence , then after allow him to get his brother to fish it .

12,000, 000 for a piece of paper , he never even went fishing ..... Discusting misuse of tax dollars . Get rid of these LIBERALS PLEASE!

Not much hope of Good goverment , But lets throw out the obvious crooks !

[CamTheCat]

I am a christian and vote green party.

I found this platform info at:

party platform comparison charthttp://lp.greenparty.ca/tiki-index.php?page=party+platform+comparison+chart&bl

...

Abortion - pro-choice. Main goal- reduce cases of unwanted pregnancies and focus more on contraceptive promotion. Would provide financial support.

Gay Marriage - supports same-sex marriage

The green party is interested in prevention of unwanted pregnancies. I wonder if they are promoting abstinence and a method of birth control, and have contacted the party to get this info and more. At this point I'm comfortable with supporting this party, while maintaining my own personal opinion on this issue (pro-life). I think that through involvement with the party, and as a christian getting involved with the Green Party, I may be able to make an impact regarding peoples stance here - maybe I can help those with the opinion of pro-choice see it from the other side (that of pro-life christians).

Of course I am treading this water carefully and would aprecciate any loving and kind feedback on my direction here.

I just can't vote conservative - for many, many reasons.

Regarding gay marriage, I'm still learning about the political issues. I know where the bible stands on homosexuality - it's a sin. The thing is, we're all equal in gods eyes, and I don't believe that many of us can say that we live our lives without sin. There is no such thing as a lesser or greater sin as far as I'm concerned, so I look at it like this: It's not for me to judge people who have a different sexual orientation than mine. I think I can support the green party and still maintain my personal beleifs regarding this particular subject.

Again I'm comfortable with voting for the green party while they support gay marriage, while I personally believe that marriage is a religious event - not a gov't one. The thing is that the gov't today has meddled in this religious union, and it has become a sort of 'flagship' for gay rights.

The bible has taught me tolerance, love and patience, and I am a supporter of gay rights, as well as sexual equality and other topics that deal with loving acceptance of our fellow humans.

I hope there will be more posts on this subject, as I'm very interested in learning more about the way a Christian gets involved in politics today.

Cameron

[willy]

CamTheCat,

I am looking for the book I referenced. When I find it I will post the title.

Found it: "God in the Doc" by CS Lewis.

Here is a quote from a different CS Lewis essay:

C.S. Lewis on politics. Source: Lewis 1966:81.

I am a democrat... I am a democrat because I believe that no man or group of men is good enough to be trusted with uncontrolled power over others. And the higher the pretentions of such power, the more dangerous I think it both to the rulers and to the subjects. Hence Theocracy is the worst of all governments. If we must have a tyrant a robber baron is far better than an inquisitor. The baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity at some point be sated; and since he dimly knows he is doing wrong he may possibly repent.

But the inquisitor who mistakes his own cruelty and lust of power and fear for the voice of Heaven will torment us infinitely because he torments us with the approval of his own conscience and his better impulses appear to him as temptations. And since Theocracy is the worst, the nearer any government approaches Theocracy the worse it will be. A metaphysic, held by the rulers with the force of a religion, is a bad sign. It forbids them like the inquisitor, to admit any grain of truth or good in their opponents, it abrogates the ordinary rules of morality, and it gives a seemingly high, super-personal sanction to all the passions by which, like other men, the rulers will frequently be actuated. In a word, it forbids wholesome doubt.

[newbie]

Christian Heritage Party?Check out their opening page: http://www.chp.ca. Lots of Liberal and other party bashing for a so called Christian organization.

[CamTheCat]

Thanks willy.

C.S.Lewis was a great writer.

[SirSpanky]

Well, if you are going to vote soley on your beliefs, and none of the parties support it, consider running for a set yourself.

For the most part, in general people do not support all of a parties policies 100%. They simply make the best choice, based on a weighted consideration of the policies in question. If you're going to be an idealist, go all the way. If you're going to be practical about it, and have your vote count (which sadly means you must support policies you disagree with) then bite the bullet, and pick one.

[BHS]

Christian Heritage Party?Check out their opening page: http://www.chp.ca. Lots of Liberal and other party bashing for a so called Christian organization.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Judging by this and previous posts, you seem to have a very narrow view of what acceptable Christian behaviour and opinions should be.

[Black Dog]

Yopu're right that there's no point in debating the abortion issue. Abortion is not going away in Canada any time soon. So to make that the key issue upon which to base your political decision is pretty pointless.

[mcqueen625]

I also am Catholic and I look at a government that is not pro-life, a government that has rammed through same-sex whatever, but I will never refer to it as a marriage regardless of how many laws that get passed, a goverment rife with corruption, a government that will say or do anything to hang onto power, a government that is led by a leader who has abandoned his responsibilties in favour of allowing an appointed, unaccountable judiciary to make law in this country, Paul Martin said; As far as I'm concerned the Supreme Court IS the final word in this country," and their latest fiasco, continuing to allow 14 year old's to consent to having sex. So much for the Liberal's wanting to represent what the majority of people in this country want, because their only goal is to pander to vocal minorities, and stay in power just as long as they can. In fact the now have a whole segment of society, mainly in Quebec and Ontario with their hands out for taxpayer's money, they are called corporate Liberal supporters.

The LIberal's refused to allow a free vote on Bill C-38, because Martin demanded that Cabinet Members, Deputies and Secretaries had to vote in favour of this legislation, and many of these individuals pressured other mambers to support the Bill, The NDP definite does not believe in democracy because they too ordered thier member's to vote Layton's line. The Bloc did the same, not that it matters much since outside the Province of Quebec they are simply immaterial.

My choice is quite clear, I will vote Conservative. I don't find Harper scary, I find that his ideas correspond with mine in more areas than does any other alternative. The Conservatives stated that they want to do something about the power of the appointed judiciary, by redefining what they can and cannot do. Right now they answer to nobody. The Conservative just introduced a Bill to up the age of consenual sex from 14 to 16 years of age. Right now Canada has one of the lowest ages of consent of any Western country. This leaves 14 year old vulnerable to pedophiles, and other sexual predators, on the internet and otherwise. I certainly would not want my 14 year being able to freely consent to having sex with someone much older then themselves, and the present law does nothing to stop it. Colter stated that he was worried about one adolescent being charged with having sex with another adolescent, but that is simply a cop out. The reality is as the Conservatives stated, that could have been dealt with in Committee, but the LIberal's with the help of other parties defeated this Bill, saying the existing Bill is sufficient. I'm sorry but it is not sufficient if adults are allowed to predate on 14 year olds, and the present Bill allows that to happen.

[CamTheCat]

As I understand it, the subject of abortion was dealt with over the last few years by the courts, and not directly by the gov't. It became a constitutional issue, and the courts decided with that in mind. Now the parties have had the decision made for them. Even though the conservatives are vieing for pro-life and want to have a free vote, I think there are other more pressing concerns on their platform, few of which I'm in favor of.

I think the conservatives are appealing to voters with false promises and misleading platform policies, but that;s just my opinion. The more I learn about the real issues in Canada, the more I see that the environment is being destroyed, for us and our children, and we won't get it back.

Now that's a serious issue for Canada. Don't dissmiss me as a tree-hugging hippie - I live in rural Alberta in the midst of a great many noe-cons who are seeing their ranches and farms destroyed by the oil industry.

Whew, that's the end of this rant.

L8R

[tml12]

As I understand it, the subject of abortion was dealt with over the last few years by the courts, and not directly by the gov't. It became a constitutional issue, and the courts decided with that in mind. Now the parties have had the decision made for them. Even though the conservatives are vieing for pro-life and want to have a free vote, I think there are other more pressing concerns on their platform, few of which I'm in favor of.

I think the conservatives are appealing to voters with false promises and misleading platform policies, but that;s just my opinion. The more I learn about the real issues in Canada, the more I see that the environment is being destroyed, for us and our children, and we won't get it back.

Now that's a serious issue for Canada. Don't dissmiss me as a tree-hugging hippie - I live in rural Alberta in the midst of a great many noe-cons who are seeing their ranches and farms destroyed by the oil industry.

Whew, that's the end of this rant.

L8R

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Conservative Party has officially announed it will not bring any pro-life legislation to the House so, effectively, they seem to be supporting the status quo on abortion.

Unless, of course, you think Harper has a hidden agenda...

[CamTheCat]

Mcqueen625,

I'm wondering: As a Christian, do you view all sins equaly? I mean, this isn't a loaded question - I'm just trying to understand your POV. While you disagree with gay marriage, do you love a gay person as your neighbor and fellow man?

Again, I hope you respond to this question, as I'm just trying to understand your stance correctly.

There are some who oppose gay rights period, and would have pro-choice supporters and homosexuals thrown out of the country or worse if they could.

I couldn't tell from your post where you stand on this.

Thanks.

How do the following principles play a role in your thoughts, as a Catholic?

TOLERANCE

COMPASSION

OPEN MINDEDNESS

PATIENCE

LOVE