xul, ToadBrother, M.Dancer 's favourate China topic

[GostHacked]

Your edit is spot on..I had this discussion wiht my stepson's principle last March after he had been in an"incident"...She said the biggest problem is that there is no fear of the strap anymore and they teachers are legally bound to soft pedal issues to keep from hurting the childs feelngs instead of dealing with them directly...Needless to say,she was very frusterated...

I have an aunt who is a retired teacher (high school) and now tutors privately. I also have a cousin who is a grade school teacher and has expressed some frustration with the ability to administer a large class. According to her, she is only to have 22 kids in her class maximum (some legislation in Ontario states this from her information) but it looks like she will have over 30. She can give better attention and specific attention to 22 kids, but is spreading herself thin with 30 kids.

Also another comment to PIK: A Schoolteachers job does not stop when the kids go home. I am fine with a teacher having a summer off because many of them put in 10-12 hour days for months on end. And then a great deal of them go home to take care of their own families.

[ToadBrother]

Keep lying, you didn't make it more look like a truth because there are already so huge amount of lies on this everywhere.

This denial of the realities of the mass deaths of the Great Leap Forward does not reflect well on you. You seem to take such pleasure at mocking Western values and reiterating Western failings, and yet so incapable of accepting the fact that Mao's ridiculous economic policies during the 1950s lead to millions of deaths. I'm not worried about it, having guys like you calling me a liar is a triumph in my eyes.

Grow up. Mao wasn't a god, he was a man who gained an extraordinary amount of power, and like so many such men, abused it. Certainly he was a profoundly talented leader, and within the political arena there's no denying his skills, but in economics he was woefully out of his league, but surrounded by sycophants too frightened to tell him to his face just how many people he was killing. It was so bad that by the end of the 1950s the Party had stripped him of a lot of his authority and began to pursue more pragmatic ends. He, of course, now fully deluded by his own cult of personality, lead an attack on the pragmatism through the equally damaging Cultural Revolution. Fortunately he died before the damage was too great, the Gang of Four were taken care of the real architect of China's economic supremacy, Deng Xiaoping, regained the power to undo the idiocies of Chairman Mao, one of the most powerful fools in history.

Edited August 19, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Jack Weber]

This denial of the realities of the mass deaths of the Great Leap Forward does not reflect well on you. You seem to take such pleasure at mocking Western values and reiterating Western failings, and yet so incapable of accepting the fact that Mao's ridiculous economic policies during the 1950s lead to millions of deaths. I'm not worried about it, having guys like you calling me a liar is a triumph in my eyes.

His responses do reveal a certain immaturity and lack of historical fortitude,though...

I mean,even most Germans freely admit the NAZI atrocities...Except the likes of Lictor,of course...

[Michael Hardner]

I don't suggest to take away the right of the individual to pursue happiness.

I think it will be better not emphasis that.

While it's possible to invent a system where the individual's rights are cared for without their direct say, it's difficult. There were good Kings and Queens of England, and bad ones but - IMO - people fared better when there was a mere piece of paper dictating their rights to elect, and express themselves.

[capricorn]

His responses do reveal a certain immaturity and lack of historical fortitude,though...

Come to think of it, at times bjre's posts have a childlike quality. I do commend bjre for no longer inserting the CAS into all his/her messages.

[bloodyminded]

His responses do reveal a certain immaturity and lack of historical fortitude,though...

I mean,even most Germans freely admit the NAZI atrocities...Except the likes of Lictor,of course...

Yes, it's part of the German education, which I think wise. More countries should take note.

[bjre]

Yes, it's part of the German education, which I think wise. More countries should take note.

Include the history that 100 million aboriginals have been killed in Americas by westerners.

Edited August 19, 2010 by bjre

[bloodyminded]

Include the history that 100 million aboriginals been killed in Americans by westerners.

That number sounds too high.

Aside from that, yes, I do think Western crimes should be part of Western education, in a way that they generally are not. It's absurd to me that we "debate" over the justification for complicity in massive state terrorism in Indonesia; rather, it would be an interesting debate (albeit shattering a paradigm) if we supported, in principle, our official enemies' "right" to commit terrorism (on a smaller scale, to boot).

[M.Dancer]

Include the history that 100 million aboriginals have been killed in Americas by westerners.

That would be kind of hard...sort of like saying Atlantis was once part of China

[bjre]

Come to think of it, at times bjre's posts have a childlike quality. I do commend bjre for no longer inserting the CAS into all his/her messages.

CAS is one of the examples that shows western democracy is a lie. Democracy don't solve powerful controls vote problem, even that problem be solved, it can not solve the problem that it enable majority bully minority even pass laws to kill minority.

[bjre]

I don't suggest to take away the right of the individual to pursue happiness.

I think it will be better not emphasis that.

While it's possible to invent a system where the individual's rights are cared for without their direct say, it's difficult. There were good Kings and Queens of England, and bad ones but - IMO - people fared better when there was a mere piece of paper dictating their rights to elect, and express themselves.

You forget the sentence that follows what you quoted.

The better thing to emphasis is thinking of others, care about others, help others, work hard to pursue happiness instead of pursue happiness with evil methods.

So what I really meaning is add a condition for pursue happiness.

And not emphasis democracy.

And I completely support the value for freedom speaking.

And my opinion that you have ignored again and again is "think of others, care about others, help others" is more important than democracy. If everyone have been educated to be that, no one need to fight for right for themselves as same as fight evils. Is every other person evil under the assumption of democracy? If that is correct, are you guys evils? Why others need use democracy to fight for their interest against you guys? Why you can not think of a fair solution that make them satisfy before they try to execute their right and protest for it sometimes with violence?

Edited August 19, 2010 by bjre

[capricorn]

CAS is one of the examples that shows western democracy is a lie.

CAS? Well that didn't last long did it.

Democracy don't solve powerful controls vote problem, even that problem be solved, it can not solve the problem that it enable majority bully minority even pass laws to kill minority.

Sorry. I have no clue what you're talking about.

[capricorn]

And my opinion that you have ignored again and again is "think of others, care about others, help others" is more important than democracy.

That's a very quaint way of describing communism.

[ToadBrother]

CAS is one of the examples that shows western democracy is a lie. Democracy don't solve powerful controls vote problem, even that problem be solved, it can not solve the problem that it enable majority bully minority even pass laws to kill minority.

Well, get back to China my little Maoist. They know how to treat democrats over there, by shooting them, arresting them and making them disappear.

[ToadBrother]

Include the history that 100 million aboriginals have been killed in Americas by westerners.

Could you provide some evidence that there were 100 million people in the Americas when the Europeans arrived?

[bjre]

Well, get back to China my little Maoist. They know how to treat democrats over there, by shooting them, arresting them and making them disappear.

The idea "shooting them, arresting them and making them disappear" is yours, who claimed support democracy and just can not live with different opinion.

And "shooting them, arresting them and making them disappear" remind me the way westerners deal with aboriginals.

If you don't aimed to make profit from democracy, then democracy to you is only another religion when you actually don't know you should respect different ideas if you truly understand what is democracy. Otherwise, you are just another dictator in name of "democracy".

Edited August 20, 2010 by bjre

[ToadBrother]

The idea "shooting them, arresting them and making them disappear" is yours, who claimed support democracy and just can not live with different opinion.

I take it irony isn't in your mental toolkit.

And "shooting them, arresting them and making them disappear" remind me the way westerners deal with aboriginals.

Too true. But much of that was long ago, and at least we have the capacity to look at our errors, admit them and make them as right as we can, as opposed to pretending that no mistakes were made.

If you don't aimed to make profit from democracy, then democracy to you is only another religion when you actually don't know you should respect different ideas if you truly understand what is democracy. Otherwise, you are just another dictator in name of "democracy".

Democracy is what it is; messy, often counterproductive, given to short-sightedness, selfishness and misplaced faith. But at least we have the opportunity to correct those mistakes, as opposed to letting delusional madmen invoke policies that kill millions. Nixon may have abused his powers in the most obscene ways, but you'll note he was forced out of office. Where were the people who could have forced Mao out of office as the bodies piled up during the Great Leap Forward? Why, either silenced by force or by fear. That's one thing we don't have in the West. Even our worst injustices have had a voice, and the most embarrassing truths of our leaders always find a way to the surface.

I'm sorry, you won't convince many here that Mao was somehow no worse than the worst of our leaders, nor will you silence the truth with obnoxious displays of nationalism. I'll happily keep my democracy and my liberties, my right to free expression, and you can stay or go, though by staying you show what a hypocrite you are.

[bjre]

Too true. But much of that was long ago, and at least we have the capacity to look at our errors, admit them and make them as right as we can, as opposed to pretending that no mistakes were made.

No, you are still try to hide it by trying to make the number smaller. And Europeans still did not return the land they robbed from native people.

Democracy is what it is; messy, often counterproductive, given to short-sightedness, selfishness and misplaced faith. But at least we have the opportunity to correct those mistakes, as opposed to letting delusional madmen invoke policies that kill millions.

Innocent people dead in Iraq and Afghanistan will be more than a million, how did you correct it?

Nixon may have abused his powers in the most obscene ways, but you'll note he was forced out of office.

But the next "elected" guy are just same type that supported by powerful large business.

Where were the people who could have forced Mao out of office as the bodies piled up during the Great Leap Forward? Why, either silenced by force or by fear. That's one thing we don't have in the West. Even our worst injustices have had a voice, and the most embarrassing truths of our leaders always find a way to the surface.

But why no one have ever seen the piled up bodies during the Great Leap Forward?

I'm sorry, you won't convince many here that Mao was somehow no worse than the worst of our leaders, nor will you silence the truth with obnoxious displays of nationalism.

Mao is the greatest leader that make your leaders unable to keep killing and slave people in China. He make it by drive all colonist out of China and drive them from China-Korea border to the 38 line.

I'll happily keep my democracy and my liberties, my right to free expression,

Your democracy is limited by brain-washing corporate controlled media that make you unable to know what is truth. And you will only waste time if you vote a person not among those pre-chosen for you by big-business.

Your liberties is limited by the amount of money you have.

Your free expression is limited in non-main-stream media unless you talk about what corporate controlled media like to use.

and you can stay or go, though by staying you show what a hypocrite you are.

Actually, the word hypocrite is just fit for you when you asked me to go back to China when I have a different idea when you claim you like democracy.

Edited August 20, 2010 by bjre

[Jack Weber]

Include the history that 100 million aboriginals have been killed in Americas by westerners.

Mathematically ridiculous on so many levels....

[M.Dancer]

No, you are still try to hide it by trying to make the number smaller. And Europeans still did not return the land they robbed from native people.

Tibet, Xinjiang, when will the Han give them their land and freedom back?

[bjre]

Tibet, Xinjiang, when will the Han give them their land and freedom back?

After all Americas return to aboriginals, and Australia return to their natives, and many others place robbed by colonist return to its native people.

By the way, most people in Tibet, Xinjiang loves in China, only the very small part supported by CIA don't.

And Han never kill native more than 90% of people like European colonist did, and all the wars between Han and others were launched by the other side, Han always defend first, like built long walls.

The reason why Han becomes larger in the history is others find Han's peaceful idea is actually good for them so that more and more nations can live better life by become part of Han, that is the reason why there are so large difference even inside Han. Tolerance to others, no matter behaviour, religion, habit, and others, that idea is in Han's book thousand years ago. Han didn't know what is freedom because they never lack of it, Han did not know what is democracy because they were satisfy with their own living style and never feel they need it. Unlike western culture which believe kill people who trust a different god. And use state machine to bully inside family issues (that is so called freedom?).

Han is the real peace loving people in the world, unlike your western politicians, talking peace always with armed forces send to other countries and with mass killing such as what they did in Iraq and Afganistan. the only description suitable for them is hypocrisy evils.

Edited August 20, 2010 by bjre

[M.Dancer]

By the way, most people in Tibet, Xinjiang loves in China, only the very small part supported by CIA don't.

Who told you that? The Party?

[bjre]

Who told you that? The Party?

That is the common sense in China. like we need eat and sleep each day.

[M.Dancer]

That is the common sense in China. like we need eat and sleep each day.

So it is just a guess then....not like there was an opinion poll of tibetans before the Chinese invaded...

[bjre]

So it is just a guess then....not like there was an opinion poll of tibetans before the Chinese invaded...

China did never invade, the king of Tibet invaded China, and after he failed, the king gave his land to China, and China Emperor assigned him as the king of that area and marry him with one of princesses.

Edited August 20, 2010 by bjre