Is Stephen Harper one of the most powerful men in the world

[Smallc]

what will not be solved is the USA's claim that our artic waterways the NWP is not ours to control...

No, no that. I'm talking about our dispute over a portion of the Beaufort Sea. The disputes in New Brunswick and BC (both of them) will probably follow.

[Smallc]

And that will fix things? I doubt it.

It will. We will no longer accept refugees of any kind from countries that we determine to be safe. You can bet that Hungary, Mexico, and the Czech Republic will all be safe countries. The visa problem will be solved.

Fair enough, but think about it this way. How much further along would be along with China if it wasn't for that?

I agree with you, they made mistakes n the early years.

In the international community things aren't seen that way.

We're doing exactly what the US is doing. We shouldn't really be seen any differently.

Not word for word. How is the sentiment any different, though?

There are times when (unfortunately) force is the only option.

In Afghanistan where everyone is getting out as fast as they can, it's a question that needs to be asked and of course, it's going to matter most to the Americans.

It shows the world that we are willing to do our part.

And if it actually dies the response will still be, "it doesn't matter if it died on our account, he was still closer than ever." I'm the one that's spinning? Sheesh.

No, then it will be the government's fault that it died, but I don't see that happening.

It's close to being solved? No it isn't. The US hasn't and will not recognize Canada's arctic sovereignty.

The Beaufort Sea dispute is being worked out as we speak.

The US position is that the islands that make up our north aren't islands but ice because...here's the kicker...we can't see under the ice so we don't know what's there.

That isn't their position. They recognize Canadian territorial sovereignty over the land, but not the Northwest Passage.

[nicky10013]

It will. We will no longer accept refugees of any kind from countries that we determine to be safe. You can bet that Hungary, Mexico, and the Czech Republic will all be safe countries. The visa problem will be solved.

Uhhh...so you're saying that people fleeing from drug cartels and racist national policy shouldn't be given refugee status? A popular national party in the Czech Republic called for a "final solution" to the roma problem. Sounds to me like they're facing persecution.

I agree with you, they made mistakes n the early years.

Fair enough. We'll see if it comes back to haunt them later on. I wasn't making that up when I said the Chinese have long memories.

We're doing exactly what the US is doing. We shouldn't really be seen any differently.

Yes because if the past 20 years has taught us anything, it's that US foreign policy is completely sound in every way possible.

There are times when (unfortunately) force is the only option.

I don't disagree. However, the same case could be made for the Palestinians and their supporters. When you've got that situation, what do you do then?

It shows the world that we are willing to do our part.

It shows we're cutting and running. Specifically to the Americans and those countries that have committed longer than 2011. For how many years have the countries "not carrying their weight" in NATO have been chided? How much fun has our country had at the expense of France? Well, we're about to become them.

No, then it will be the government's fault that it died, but I don't see that happening.

We'll see.

The Beaufort Sea dispute is being worked out as we speak.

That's not the major one and we know it.

That isn't their position. They recognize Canadian territorial sovereignty over the land, but not the Northwest Passage.

Yeah it is. Law of the sea states that if the islands are ours, so is the water in between them. Heard this straight from the mouth of Colin Powell. Gave a speech in Toronto. Gave some Canadian anecdotes, one over this. Described the US position and even he was laughing over how dumb it was.

[wyly]

That isn't their position. They recognize Canadian territorial sovereignty over the land, but not the Northwest Passage.

water is territory. they're internal waterways ....strange how conservatives get all up worked up when a Russian plane flies in international airspace but when the USA tells us straight out the NWP is not ours and they'll sail nuclear subs and oil tankers through it at their pleasure we hear not a peep out of the F35 lovers...

[Guest TrueMetis]

water is territory. they're internal waterways ....strange how conservatives get all up worked up when a Russian plane flies in international airspace but when the USA tells us straight out the NWP is not ours and they'll sail nuclear subs and oil tankers through it at their pleasure we hear not a peep out of the F35 lovers...

We can always use them to blow said tankers up.

Edited July 30, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Smallc]

Uhhh...so you're saying that people fleeing from drug cartels and racist national policy shouldn't be given refugee status? A popular national party in the Czech Republic called for a "final solution" to the roma problem. Sounds to me like they're facing persecution.

I don't necessarily disagree...but it does fix the VISA problem.

Fair enough. We'll see if it comes back to haunt them later on. I wasn't making that up when I said the Chinese have long memories.

Hopefully it doesn't. I doubt it, because China needs us and vice versa.

Yes because if the past 20 years has taught us anything, it's that US foreign policy is completely sound in every way possible.

I didn't say that, i said we're doing the same thing on climate.

I don't disagree. However, the same case could be made for the Palestinians and their supporters. When you've got that situation, what do you do then?

Again, to a point I don't necessarily disagree.

It shows we're cutting and running. Specifically to the Americans and those countries that have committed longer than 2011. For how many years have the countries "not carrying their weight" in NATO have been chided? How much fun has our country had at the expense of France? Well, we're about to become them.

I don't think it shows that at all. The US has a similar date for many of their forces, the Dutch are leaving this year, and the British are leaving in 2012. We're all leaving.

That's not the major one and we know it.

That is in fact a major dispute when we're talking about future oil and gas exploration in the arctic.

Yeah it is. Law of the sea states that if the islands are ours, so is the water in between them. Heard this straight from the mouth of Colin Powell. Gave a speech in Toronto. Gave some Canadian anecdotes, one over this. Described the US position and even he was laughing over how dumb it was.

I've heard US officials state that they recognize the islands as being ours in the past. Perhaps differences of opinions exist within the government?

[PIK]

Harper's relationship with the rest of the world may have been good when he first appeared on the scene, but now cutting money to organizations that help people around the world isn't going to get you a badge of respect or loyality. Telling other countries to get their debt in check, while rising yours at home, is not very wise. I can't wait for an election, I think the outcome will be different!

The election will produce a majority for harper because there still is alot of smart peole left in the country. On china ,he showed china he was not going to take up the you know where anymore, like the libs have been doing and he has gained respect from them for it, as in opening up china to more grain sales,(chretein could not do it)and being on the most favourite list for tourism.(something else chretein did not get done).

[nicky10013]

The election will produce a majority for harper because there still is alot of smart peole left in the country. On china ,he showed china he was not going to take up the you know where anymore, like the libs have been doing and he has gained respect from them for it, as in opening up china to more grain sales,(chretein could not do it)and being on the most favourite list for tourism.(something else chretein did not get done).

Bahahahahah because we really have the ability to tell off China. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. As for people being smart enough to give Harper majority, he can barely crack 32% anymore. Before he was regularly in 37%-40% territory. If he couldn't win one before, he won't win one now. Keep trying, though.

[PIK]

Bahahahahah because we really have the ability to tell off China. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. As for people being smart enough to give Harper majority, he can barely crack 32% anymore. Before he was regularly in 37%-40% territory. If he couldn't win one before, he won't win one now. Keep trying, though.

It is to bad you lefties would not for once not have some pride in this country, we have the oil the water and every other resourse that china needs, and china respect toughness they don't respect appeasers.

[capricorn]

As for people being smart enough to give Harper majority, he can barely crack 32% anymore. Before he was regularly in 37%-40% territory. If he couldn't win one before, he won't win one now. Keep trying, though.

I wouldn't say he was "regularly" in the 37-40% range.

In any case, as was said many times by many people here and others in the know, with the Bloc so strong in Quebec, no party is about to win a majority. What's the difference anyway? Ignatieff and the Liberals are allowing the Conservatives to rule as if they have a majority.

[nicky10013]

I don't necessarily disagree...but it does fix the VISA problem.

If the government drops the visa problem, it fixes the visa problem. However, when we're not letting in people at all from those states, that's still a major problem.

Hopefully it doesn't. I doubt it, because China needs us and vice versa.

Not really. China needs our oil and we're not giving them access to it. Until we do, that doesn't change.

I didn't say that, i said we're doing the same thing on climate.

Which has hurt Canada and the US internationally. At least the US went to negotiate in good faith. What did we do?

Again, to a point I don't necessarily disagree.

Both sides have legitimate claims. Both sides committ atrocities. In a situation like that there is no way but to stay neutral to try and hammer out an agreement. Violenece hasn't solved a thing since 1947. It won't end until one side says enough is enough, lets talk. The problem is that's a sign of weakness. It's a cycle of violence that will be hard to break. There is no victor in this.

I don't think it shows that at all. The US has a similar date for many of their forces, the Dutch are leaving this year, and the British are leaving in 2012. We're all leaving.

THe US won't be able to draw down.

That is in fact a major dispute when we're talking about future oil and gas exploration in the arctic.

I don't disagree but easily the biggest situation re: the north is the future of the Northwest Passage, especially considering now Global Warming is dictating it's going to be navigable more and more throughout a calendar year.

I've heard US officials state that they recognize the islands as being ours in the past. Perhaps differences of opinions exist within the government?

Well, Powell has never been outside the executive branch, and the executive branch sets foreign policy. I think a lot of officials realize it's the about the passage. The problem is if they recognize the islands as being ours, that means the passage is ours. It's an important issue. With the panama canal not being able to handle the amount of traffic needed, access to the NWP will be strategically important in the future.

[nicky10013]

I wouldn't say he was "regularly" in the 37-40% range.

In any case, as was said many times by many people here and others in the know, with the Bloc so strong in Quebec, no party is about to win a majority. What's the difference anyway? Ignatieff and the Liberals are allowing the Conservatives to rule as if they have a majority.

No money, no election. Furthermore, no other party in parliament holds the "kingmaking" power that the Liberals do. It's a bad position because no one wants an election yet no one wants some of these things passed. We'll see how this upcoming session goes.

[ToadBrother]

I wouldn't say he was "regularly" in the 37-40% range.

In any case, as was said many times by many people here and others in the know, with the Bloc so strong in Quebec, no party is about to win a majority. What's the difference anyway? Ignatieff and the Liberals are allowing the Conservatives to rule as if they have a majority.

There really isn't. As much as I don't like Harper, he's certainly had no more gaffes than any other Prime Minister, and all in all, judging by how the economy is doing, how quickly the deficit is clearing up, I'd say that, as much as maybe the parties themselves and the dedicated party types around here and elsewhere may dislike the situation, I think we've got a government than damned near everyone in the industrialized world envies. I don't particularly want an election because I think we wouldn't get any better, could get worse, but just as likely would get what we already have, and spend a few hundred million bucks on a pointless election. That money could be much better spent elsewhere, or preferably, not spent at all.

To put it in perspective, just look at the massive cuts the Coalition Government in the UK is about to set off. They're massive, bigger than anything since WWII, and will effect the average Briton in numerous ways. When I look at them, and then I look at us, I'm very damned glad I live in Canada and have a sort of unofficial coalition that, despite the constant mudslinging, is making a better stab at governance than most of our peers in the world.

Edited July 30, 2010 by ToadBrother

[ToadBrother]

No money, no election. Furthermore, no other party in parliament holds the "kingmaking" power that the Liberals do. It's a bad position because no one wants an election yet no one wants some of these things passed. We'll see how this upcoming session goes.

Same as the last one, and the one before it, which is why such an election at this juncture would be worse than pointless, it would be outright wasteful.

[Smallc]

The problem is if they recognize the islands as being ours, that means the passage is ours.

Not necessarily so. If they can successfully argue that it's an international waterway (which as far as I know, is their position) then it doesn't matter about the islands.

[capricorn]

Furthermore, no other party in parliament holds the "kingmaking" power that the Liberals do.

Ouch! The last thing the Liberals want to be known as are "kingmakers" in parliament. What they do want to be known as are "the Kings" of parliament.

[nicky10013]

Not necessarily so. If they can successfully argue that it's an international waterway (which as far as I know, is their position) then it doesn't matter about the islands.

There's really no such thing as an international waterway. There's the Suez, Dardanelles, Bosphorus and Panama which are always open, but the owners have a right to close them.

[Smallc]

There's really no such thing as an international waterway. There's the Suez, Dardanelles, Bosphorus and Panama which are always open, but the owners have a right to close them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters#International_waterways

[PIK]

To do with the arctic, I just caught a small part about the ship that was found ,the HMS Investigator I think and it is supposed to be important for our claim,why?

[capricorn]

To put it in perspective, just look at the massive cuts the Coalition Government in the UK is about to set off. They're massive, bigger than anything since WWII, and will effect the average Briton in numerous ways.

I spent a month in the UK in the 70s when their economy was in the toilet. In that decade, it was so bad, electricity was rationed. My ex-mother in law would write me letters by candlelight and describe how bad things were for the average person. I just hope they don't have to go through what they did back then.

[nicky10013]

It is to bad you lefties would not for once not have some pride in this country, we have the oil the water and every other resourse that china needs, and china respect toughness they don't respect appeasers.

How do you propose we "get tough" with China. Furthermore, why should we get tough with China? Human rights? The human rights situation in China now compared to 1991 is infinitely better. In 1982. 65% of the Chinese people were living on a dollar a day. Today, it's only 10%. They're an economic and military powerhouse. We have no other option than to deal with them openly and in a fair way. Canada standing up to China is like a mouse standing up to an elephant. To think that the Elephant would do anything but laugh is mind boggling.

Indeed, if the west was to follow up on our rhetoric for human rights, we'd trade more with China. Wealth creates democracy. As China has gotten richer, there have been more and more anti-government protests. Chinese can easily get around "the great firewall of China" and get non censored information. There was a full fledged uprising in tibet just before the olympics. Things will get a bit more hectic but as the GDP per capita figures raise, there will be less human rights abuse and further moves towards democratic development. If human's rights abuses are really what is driving our tough attitude agenda (I'm not convinced, I'm sure with most it's a situation akin to a pissing contest), it won't work.

[nicky10013]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters#International_waterways

Fair enough, Turkey still has the ability to close the Bosphorus and the Daradanelles.

[ToadBrother]

To do with the arctic, I just caught a small part about the ship that was found ,the HMS Investigator I think and it is supposed to be important for our claim,why?

I'm a little puzzled on that one, myself. Certainly the British Empire had claim to the Passage, and we inherited that claim when we inherited the Northwest and Yukon Territories. It may be that it established beyond a doubt our presence and give us claim to the seabed and such. Most certainly it makes clear that, historically, it was the British Empire who had the best claim to the Northwest Passage, and with the Dominion of Canada inheriting pretty much all of British North America, I guess it must mean something.

[nicky10013]

Same as the last one, and the one before it, which is why such an election at this juncture would be worse than pointless, it would be outright wasteful.

I disagree. Everything good taht you've said, economists argue has happened in spite of government policy, not because of it. We have the most secretive and partisan government in history and I want it replaced ASAP.

Agree to disagree I guess.

[Smallc]

I disagree. Everything good taht you've said, economists argue has happened in spite of government policy, not because of it.

I haven't really heard that. As ill advised as they were, the GST cuts probably helped during the recession, as did the corporate tax cuts (most of which were actually done by Liberals).