maplesyrup Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 A Harper's dictionary Calgary Sun, page 34, June 4, 2004:Wild Rose Conservative MP Myron Thompson said that the party’s more moderate platform does appeal to voters. "For now, we've got to do what we've got to do to get elected," said Thompson. But he said opposition expressed in the poll [a poll reports 17% of Albertans believe the party has strayed too far from its roots] reflects the likelihood party grassroots will want policy reversals. OTTAWA — Canadians demand better – of their politicians, and specifically, that they say what they mean. Stephen Harper failed that test today, issuing an artfully vague election platform stuffed with code words designed to conceal his real agenda. In plain English, Harper’s platform is a formula for reckless tax cuts and other priorities that are out of line with Canadian values. To help – a Harper’s Dictionary: This should be a helpful tool for the confused Canadian voters who often feel they are being bamboozled by their politicians. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 To help – a Harper’s Dictionary:Privatization: Page 3: “The Conservative Party believes that all Canadians have a right to timely access to quality health care services…” Trans.: We will introduce two-tier health care which will permit wealthy Canadians to pay to jump queues at private, for-profit clinics and hospitals. Abortion, same-sex marriage, and the death penalty: Page 8: “Increase the power of individual Members of Parliament.” Trans.: As Myron says, there are some things we need to be quiet about in order to get elected. So, as Stephen Harper stated a few days ago, he wouldn’t introduce any bills on abortion, the death penalty, or banning same-sex marriages – but his MPs could (and would). Influence of money on elections: Page 11: “We will revise election financing legislation to allow individual Canadians and organizations freedom of expression during election campaigns.” Trans.: We will overturn the courts, and allow the National Citizens’ Coalition (and other corporate-funded right-wing organizations) the opportunity to manipulate Canadian elections – bypassing legislated limits on political donations. Public funding for political parties will be eliminated to reduce their ability to respond. Undermining the Charter: Page 14: “The Conservative Party believes that Parliament, not unelected judges, should have the final say on contentious social issues like the definition of marriage.” Trans.: We oppose the enforcement of the Canadian Charter of Rights, and we would use a Conservative majority in the House of Commons to override the civil rights of Canadians. A corporate payoff from EI?: Page 18: “A Conservative government led by Stephen Harper will reduce Employment Insurance premiums…” Trans.: A Conservative government will reduce premiums, but we’ll let you guess which part – the employers’ contribution, or the employees’ portion. Nothing for Cities: Page 19: “A Conservative government led by Stephen Harper will negotiate a transfer of at least three cents of federal fuel excise tax to the provinces through a national infrastructure agreement.” Trans.: Under Tory rule, there will be no “new deal for cities”. Abandoning farm families: Page 23: “Give grain farmers the freedom to make their own marketing and transportation decisions and to voluntarily participate in producer organizations.” Trans.: We would abolish the Canadian Wheat Board so Canadian farm producers can be set up to compete individually against heavily-subsidized, multi-billion dollar U.S. agri-food corporations in the global marketplace. No homecare: Page 27: “Provide Canadians with a list of common homecare services eligible for coverage.” Trans.: We will not introduce a national homecare program. More student debt: Page 31: “A Conservative government led by Stephen Harper will increase the maximum student loan limits…” Trans.: Since we propose to do nothing about rising tuition, we will re-write the rules to enable students to run up higher debts – giving them a mortgage to pay off after they graduate, minus the house. Renege on Kyoto: Page 34: “Redirect federal spending aimed at fulfilling the terms of the increasingly irrelevant Kyoto Protocol to concrete programs to ensure clean air, water, and land, and to promote energy conservation.” Trans.: We will join George Bush in reneging on the Kyoto environmental protocol. Aircraft carriers, coming up: Page 35: “Give our Canadian Forces the equipment they need to do the difficult and demanding work we ask of them.” Trans.: We will spend billions that are not provided for in our finance projections to purchase aircraft carriers, so that we can participate in the next American military adventure. Handing Canadian law to U.S. Congressional lobbyists: Page 39: “Enhance our NAFTA relationship with the United States by moving to… enhanced common labour, environmental, and security standards.” Trans.: Under Republican government in the United States, American labour and environmental law is now drafted directly by lobbyists in the service of U.S. corporations. We will harmonize with these deficient and heavily influenced American statutes. On security: We will integrate Canada’s military policy with the Bush administration. Canadian Police and intelligence operations will be integrated with the FBI and the CIA. Handling U.S. relations through an unelected Cabinet official: Page 39: “Elevate the Canadian Ambassador to the United States so that the position holds cabinet rank and is a full member of the Cabinet Committee on Canada/US Relations.” Trans.: We do not understand or respect the British Parliamentary system, and so we believe that the U.S. relationship – which, as noted above, will now drive key elements of Canadian legislation – should be overseen by an unelected, Cabinet-level official who is not accountable to the House of Commons. George Bush’s loyal pal: Page 40: “We face new threats like … nuclear weapons in the hands of rogue states. Canada needs to work closely with our military allies ….” Trans.: Although not a shred of evidence has been uncovered to support George Bush’s claims about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, and even though the Director of the CIA has just resigned in disgrace in part for misleading the American people about this issue, we will repeat Mr. Bush’s spin lines on this matter. And once we have built up the military capacity to do so, we will join the next American military adventure. International development? No: Page 40: “We should support international development policies that will alleviate poverty, disease, and pollution and improve the status of women and children.” Trans.: We should… but we won’t, since our projections include no measures to address these issues. Yup. I said earlier that they hadn't really moderated. And they havn't. It's akin to holding your breath under water. The Elite of the party can only hold their breath for so long before they gotta come up for air. We've been seeing some bubbles lately, but I think with the release of the platform, they've surfaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 One of the reason the NDP will never form a governemnt is that they have this view of Republicans in the U.S and seems to not understand that the U.S is a two party state and the parties rotate power in government every few elections. Until the NDP understand that they will always be a far out and marginalized third party. Will Jack Layton be to the NDP what Kim Campbell was the the Progressive Conservatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 To help – a Harper’s Dictionary: Uh, I'm just curious. Did you think everyone was just too stupid to follow the link Maplesyrup put in his post? Is that why you felt the need to repost it in its entirety? Or did you think that because this "dictionary" was on the NDP election page some people might uh, suspect the accuracy of some of the statements therein so you wanted to remove it to this site without saying where you got it? I said earlier that they hadn't really moderated.Those bastards! Imagine the gall! Promising tax cuts! Of all the nerve! That's scary. What will we do if we have to spend our own money instead of letting the government do it. How will all those people who contributed so much money to the Liberal Party get their payoffs?Oh wait, most NDP supporters don't actually pay taxes, do they now? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Oh wait, most NDP supporters don't actually pay taxes, do they now? I don't know, not being one myself. Uh, I'm just curious. Did you think everyone was just too stupid to follow the link Maplesyrup put in his post? Is that why you felt the need to repost it in its entirety? Just the most damming part. Or did you think that because this "dictionary" was on the NDP election page some people might uh, suspect the accuracy of some of the statements therein so you wanted to remove it to this site without saying where you got it? Nah, it was a good read. As you said, the link was there. Those bastards! True. Imagine the gall! Promising tax cuts! Of all the nerve! That's scary. What will we do if we have to spend our own money instead of letting the government do it. How will all those people who contributed so much money to the Liberal Party get their payoffs? The Tax cuts arn't nearly as scary as the Alliance attitude towards the Charter and women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Ignore whatever the NDP as to say. That is what most Canadians do anyway. They are a far-left and out of touch third party. Whatever they say should be taken with a grain of salt. For goodness sake this is a party that want to take Canada out of NATO. The party of Bob Rae. Repeal the Clarity Act The party of Tax you to death. They like children. Never take anything they say very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Their translations are accurate, arn't they? Are you going on record now to refute the NDP interpretation of the Con platform? If so, please go through, point by point, what the platform really means. I'm interested in reading your interpretation to the code words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Why would anyone do that takeanumber ? That would be giving what the NDP says credibility. Something they do not have right now. My advice to Harper ignore Layton and the NDP, they are no real threat to him expect in B.C and keep focus on the Liberals and Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I don't support the NDP. But that doesn't mean that I'll dismiss their interpretation of the Cons plan. So if the NDP are so wrong, like children, it should be easy to go through the list and point the falacies in each interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiraly Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 My advice to Harper ignore Layton and the NDP He already is. Nice strategy by Jackie. Instill fear in their supporters that the Conservatives are a dangerous radical party with a hidden agenda. What is the likely outcome of such a strategy? I doubt any small "c" conservatives will come flocking to his party. I doubt this will entice any Lieberal support to switch their allegience and vote NDP. Most likely outcome is that some of the gains he made from disaffected Lieberal supporters will be lost. He should've stuck with trying to paint the Lieberals and the Conservatives as one in the same. In this way he could try to create more space for his party on the left side of the spectrum. All this will do is send any red-liberal support he may have gained back to the Lieberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I would rather have the Liberals get a small majority and the CPC be a strong opposition and have the NDP destroyed and replaced by the Green Party. If its really ment that this country would finally be done with the New Democratic Party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiraly Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I would rather have the Liberals get a small majority and the CPC be a strong opposition and have the NDP destroyed and replaced by the Green Party. If itsreally ment that this country would finally be done with the New Democratic Party. Never happen. The NDP has a core support that could not find comfort in any of the other existing parties. Hypothetically, if for some reason the NDP were to cease to exist, another party would form to take its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 The Green party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiraly Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 The Green party The Green Party is actually too fiscally conservative for the NDP supporter. NDP dies, a new socialist party would emerge to take its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Yup. Besides, the NDP can't really be 'green'. They get half their funding from the automobile industry. Besides, have you actually listened to an NDP'er talk about the economy? Ever hear Buzz talk about Air Canada and the economy? I think many NDP'ers don't "get it". To say that the NDP is fiscally conservative is akin to saying Harper is socially moderate. It's just false. Anyway: nobody has spoken up to refute the NDP critiques of the Conservative hidden agenda and code words...so does that mean that the Conservatives here don't think that the hidden agenda is 'hidden'? If so, why the need for codewords? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Takeanumber if its so hidden why is it that you knows so much about it. If it is true, they certainly aren't hiding it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Takeanumber if its so hidden why is it that you knows so much about it.If it is true, they certainly aren't hiding it well. They're comming up for air, arn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 It's a lot like holding your breath under water, being an alliance-Conservative that is. You have these beliefs that you have, but you have to pretend to be moderate for the public, until at least the election is over, but you gotta hold your breath. And your lungs start to burn, and you need to come up for air. These Alliance-Conservatives (not Pc-Conservatives), they can't help themselves. They can't hold their breath, and that's why I say: their old platform, how they really feel, IS their secret agenda. Increasingly though, no longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Takeanumber you sound like a Liberal to me. Were did you get that from the Liberal War rooms, because I know you didn't come up with that yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Wild Rose Conservative MP Myron Thompson said that the party’s more moderate platform does appeal to voters."For now, we've got to do what we've got to do to get elected," said Thompson. Thompson has always been one of the low-lights of the party, and has trouble keeping his mouth shut. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Wild Rose Conservative MP Myron Thompson said that the party’s more moderate platform does appeal to voters. "For now, we've got to do what we've got to do to get elected," said Thompson. Makes sense to me. Isn't that what politics is about..getting elected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Are you saying it was smart for Thompson to say this ? I don't agree... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliege Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 He was just saying what people already know. That is what politics and running for office is all about. Getting elected. Thompson was just telling the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Takeanumber you sound like a Liberal to me. Were did you get that from the Liberal War rooms, because I know you didn't come up with that yourself. Nope. And again with the personal attacks. He was just saying what people already know. That is what politics and running for office is all about. Getting elected. Thompson was just telling the truth. See: they do have a secret agenda then. Appear moderate, then bam, we get Kleined. It's a good thing Canadians are an educated bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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