msdogfood Posted July 7, 2010 Author Report Posted July 7, 2010 (edited) Excellent column. Thanks for the link Argus (although it was actually written by David Warren, not Randall Denley). I don't get how anyone who has read the stories that have been printed so far can exonerate the police. By all accounts, they failed to react on day 1, when the violence was actually occurring (some have even suggested that there were agents provocateur among the blac bloc). Then they completely overreacted the following day, with mass arrests of peaceful protestors and innocent bystanders, including journalists and tourists. At this point, I think there is a legitimate question as to whether the police action was motivated by security concerns or by politics. Based on what I've read, I'll bet many of those arrested and released will think twice about joining any peaceful protest in the future. I wonder if that consequence is entirely unintended. If people in this country actually cared and if the media in this country actually functioned, there would be some further investigation as to exactly what happened. It would be nice to have even some basic information such as how many people were detained and released (suggesting the police have no real evidence of any wrong doing) vs the number that will actually be charged and prosecuted. The police ran roughshod over constitutionally guaranteed rights and there needs to be some accountability. I suspect the only way there will be any public reckoning is if some of the individuals have the resources to pursue civil action. I hope that there is a class action suit brought against the police to bring them to account for their actions. 3 journalist have hie-rd Falconer Charney LLP VERY GOOD law firm!!!. See My link Edited July 7, 2010 by msdogfood Quote
msdogfood Posted July 13, 2010 Author Report Posted July 13, 2010 OK Now I am Very UNHAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See My link !! Quote
Army Guy Posted July 13, 2010 Report Posted July 13, 2010 I don't get how anyone who has read the stories that have been printed so far can exonerate the police. And while they may not of performed like a bunch of angles, they did mange a very large crowd, and did basically keep the peace...And in all this we fail to recongize the true villians here the radical protestors themselfs....i mean if not for them there would be no need for a police presence, nor no Bil dollar security bill....SO we ask our police officers to keep us safe and protect the public....and in doing so we spit in thier faces, call them names, threaten to bring law suits.... And all this time these Black Bloc, or whatever thier handles are are sitting back telling thier stories to thier friends in between "pass me that spliff"....some of whom where charged with minor crimes which caused us tax payers what ? Yes they are sitting back laughing at us all, as we piss on those who actually put thier safety on the line to protect us..... Can't wait until the next riot when the punks are running rampant , destroying shit, and the cops are sitting back watching it all from thier cars , because last time the stepped out to help it cost them a law suit....and all they got for thier troubles is spit on.... The police ran roughshod over constitutionally guaranteed rights and there needs to be some accountability. Ran roughshod over constitutional rights, some serious charges, But it is easy to pick out those involved in peaceful protest, from those just being dick heads....in a mixed crowd.....funney how the peaceful protestors did nothing to separate themselves from these assholes, nor did they police their own crowd....instead just whinned and complaining when police started to round them all up.... I suspect the only way there will be any public reckoning is if some of the individuals have the resources to pursue civil action. I hope that there is a class action suit brought against the police to bring them to account for their actions. Me to, and the next riot there may not be a police presence or one worth a damn in a riot situation, and when someone gets seriously hurt or killed, or enough damage is done there will be screaming once again...for a stronger police response....kind of catch 22.... I just wonder how much training these police officers actually had , how much experience they had with large crowds in a riot situation....with the limited training they did recieve i think things went well...not perfect but well... As for this driving away those who are only interested in peacefully protesting and getting thier message across, well, as long as there are dick heads in the crowd who only gripe is to put it to the man, and do some crazy shit....then those peaceful protestors should find another avenue to have thier voice heard...or take care of the dick heads before hand....or they can stay home.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Argus Posted July 13, 2010 Report Posted July 13, 2010 Can't wait until the next riot when the punks are running rampant , destroying shit, and the cops are sitting back watching it all from thier cars , Isn't that pretty much what happened this time around? Ran roughshod over constitutional rights, some serious charges, But it is easy to pick out those involved in peaceful protest, from those just being dick heads... Yes, it should have been, but it doesn't appear they put in much effort along those lines. ...or take care of the dick heads before hand....or they can stay home.... How do you expect them to "take care of" the dickheads? Shoot them? Beat them up? Lock them up somehow? Order them to not march on the street? I generally support police, but they screwed up here. They arrested people who CLEARLY were not violating the law in any way, shape or form, who CLEARLY were not members of the black block, on the apparent theory that if they arrested enough random people they'd get a bunch of the dickheads too. On top of that, despite a massive police presence of 20,000, they couldn't maintain order. I'd like to see a complete investigation of who planned this, what the plans were, and why we needed 20,000 police to NOT maintain order against 5,000 protesters/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted July 13, 2010 Report Posted July 13, 2010 It seems that it just can't get any stranger, but here you go: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/08/toronto-g20.html Spokeswoman Laura Blondeau said the ministry only learned two weeks ago that Contemporary Security Canada, which also provided security at the Vancouver Olympics, was not licensed in Ontario. /facepalm Still trying to find it, but they are not going to be doing any investigations into any allegations of abuse by police during the G20. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 14, 2010 Report Posted July 14, 2010 Isn't that pretty much what happened this time around? The first day , id have to agree with you, but lets give them credit where credit is do, Noraml policing duties don't include dealing with large crowds very often,and while they did recieve a few weeks of training on riot situations, they where still pretty green.... I suspect after the first day, thier chain of command kicked them in the ass, and told them to get more aggresive....hence the mass arrests....and while they proable did go a little over board....lets keep in mind riot control in Canada is not something we are good at...and thats a good thing i guess.... Shit even in the military riot control is a lost art....nobody does it any more, and while most recieve a week course it is a whole different ball of wax when faced with large crowds...things can melt down fast, on both sides....get kicked in the nuts a few times from protestors and your "nice guy out look goes out the window"....out comes the night stick and soon bashing in a few heads...for the most part they where restrained...sure a few bruises...but you can't take someone down and cuff them with out a few bruises.... Yes, it should have been, but it doesn't appear they put in much effort along those lines. Sorry i was being a bit sarcastic, at ground level it is very difficult to know who are the ring leaders or dick heads they are running about mixing with the crowd....sure they're police guys putting it all on tape, and taking pictures....but it is very difficult to tell the difference , and even more difficult to grab one of these pricks because you can't leave the formation....it's much easier to move the entire riot control formation and surround the entire group....then just start pulling people into the center to be arrested.... How do you expect them to "take care of" the dickheads? Shoot them? Beat them up? Lock them up somehow? Order them to not march on the street? A simple "we don't want your kind in our protest Screw off works sometimes....an old lady with a heavy purse works as well....that or stop and delay your advance unitl the dick heads leave or get out of range...can't tell me that there was'nt any big burly guys involved in the protest have them tell the punks to shove off....for the most part the punks are there to cause mayham....not to get beat up.... Lets not forget, these punks are responsable for these protestors not getting thier message out....in fact they are the reason everyone was treated the way they where....no dick heads then really no need for crowd control.... generally support police, but they screwed up here. They arrested people who CLEARLY were not violating the law in any way, shape or form, who CLEARLY were not members of the black block, Like i said, lack of experience with riot situations, topped of with far to many dick heads, and things turned ugly....Your fustration should be towards the dick heads in black...not the cops....who had no chioce but to be there.....besides anyone involved in any protest knows or should know there is a good chance the dick heads are going to get nasty and things are not going to go well for everyone.... to the cops you all look the same, act the same i've seen lots of peaceful protesters get shoved back by advanceing police lines , get fustrated and soon they are one of the dick heads, throwing things, pushing and punching back..... I'd like to see a complete investigation of who planned this, what the plans were, and why we needed 20,000 police to NOT maintain order against 5,000 protesters/ They had more ground to cover than the protesters did, alot more jobs to do....over all nobody died, except a fw bruises and a 24 hour stay in a make shift jail what do they have to complain about....remember everyone knows a protest can quickly turn into a riot....if you knew that before hand why take the chance on going down there unless you wanted to be a part of it....some just got to experience more of it than they bargined for.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
DrGreenthumb Posted July 14, 2010 Report Posted July 14, 2010 Easy to see that a police state is quite acceptable to you. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 14, 2010 Report Posted July 14, 2010 Easy to see that a police state is quite acceptable to you. I think you're confusing any state that has police with a police state. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 15, 2010 Report Posted July 15, 2010 Easy to see that a police state is quite acceptable to you. We have laws for a good reason, unfortunitly a few dick heads are ruining the entire protesting process and you seem good with that....you place the blame for this entire situation on the police....And while they're proformance was not steller, we can hardly place the entire problem at their feet...which is my piont...there is plenty of blame to go all the way around... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Argus Posted July 15, 2010 Report Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) The first day , id have to agree with you, but lets give them credit where credit is do, Noraml policing duties don't include dealing with large crowds very often,and while they did recieve a few weeks of training on riot situations, they where still pretty green.... That doesn't cut it. The behavior of those who adapt Black Block tactics is very well-documented. And if Cnd police don't know how to strategize for that they should have imported a few advisers from the UK or France. I suspect after the first day, thier chain of command kicked them in the ass, and told them to get more aggresive....hence the mass arrests.... My main problem is WITH the chain of command, not so much the stormtroopers in their black padded armor. They appeared to have very poor tactics and planning. Shit even in the military riot control is a lost art....nobody does it any more,There were no riots. There were some limited protests, none overly large or violent, and a hundred or two thugs. It wasn't a matter of riot control but crowd control, and a matter of maintenance of public order. Sorry i was being a bit sarcastic, at ground level it is very difficult to know who are the ring leaders or dick heads they are running about mixing with the crowd...I doubt that First, police would have infiltrated every group to learn who the leaders were. Second, this particular group likes to play dressup. The moment they don masks and black outfits you know who to arrest. There weren't that many and there should have been masses of plainclothes police among the protesters who could grab anyone who donned a disguise instantly. A simple "we don't want your kind in our protest Screw off works sometimes....As I understand it, they join protests as individuals, and at some point they don black and put on masks, and at that point they have numbers, say 30-40-50 who cannot be pushed around by unorganized protesters. Like i said, lack of experience with riot situations, topped of with far to many dick heads, and things turned ugly....Your fustration should be towards the dick heads in black...not the cops.. My frustration is with both. The violent protesters should be given time at hard labour. But those cops were making something like $65hr and what you're saying is they were nearly entirely incompetent to control crowds. It's very hard for me not to imagine I could have done better planning for this thing, and organized security for a LOT less money,and to greater effect. The difficulties with individual officers were not inexperience with riots but lack of discipline and overreaction to non-rioters, to people sitting in a park, to people walking past doing nothing. And you might think it's no big deal to get cuffed and locked up for a day, but most people, going about their legal business, having no previous experience with police, would think otherwise. I would be HIGHLY pissed if I was walking along and the cops blocked off the street and left me standing in the rain for hours on end just because they suspected some people in a crowd might be planning vandalism. Edited July 18, 2010 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DrGreenthumb Posted July 15, 2010 Report Posted July 15, 2010 Wow I acyually agree with Argus for once, lol. Nice to know not ALL conservatives support these unrestrained police state tactics. For 930 million dollars I expect the police to be able to do a lot better job than they did. I also still think that the government was in on this action. It was all a little too staged. They let those assholes do destruction to justify their ridiculous budget, and their mistreatment of the peaceful protestors. I've seen better security at outdoor rock festivals, and at a considerably smaller budget, probably 929.9 million less. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 15, 2010 Report Posted July 15, 2010 We have laws for a good reason, unfortunitly a few dick heads are ruining the entire protesting process and you seem good with that....you place the blame for this entire situation on the police....And while they're proformance was not steller, we can hardly place the entire problem at their feet...which is my piont...there is plenty of blame to go all the way around... We do have laws for good reason. But when the cops tell you that you are being arrested under a law that never existed in the first place, what conclusions can you make from that? Quote
msdogfood Posted July 18, 2010 Author Report Posted July 18, 2010 Oh look more good news for the TOPD Will the TOPDS legal advisers get over time!!!!?? My link My link http://pcneedtogo.blogspot.com/2010/07/officer-bubbles-from-bubbles-to.html http://pcneedtogo.blogspot.com/2010/07/torontos-officer-bubbles-gains-web.html Quote
Argus Posted July 18, 2010 Report Posted July 18, 2010 We do have laws for good reason. But when the cops tell you that you are being arrested under a law that never existed in the first place, what conclusions can you make from that? They arrested people on all kinds of specious charges. I'm guessing that of the 1000 people arrested, no more than a dozen will ever wind up having the charges substantiated. Looking at the videos, it's like the cops thought every gathering was a riot. There were way too many views of panicky cops, nightsticks held out, posed to defend themselves from what were basically curious onlookers. And they used too much violence in arresting people who were not violent and not-resisting, piling on and dragging them away as if panicked that hordes of protesters were going to surround them and start beating on them with iron clubs. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bebe Posted July 18, 2010 Report Posted July 18, 2010 They arrested people on all kinds of specious charges. I'm guessing that of the 1000 people arrested, no more than a dozen will ever wind up having the charges substantiated. Looking at the videos, it's like the cops thought every gathering was a riot. There were way too many views of panicky cops, nightsticks held out, posed to defend themselves from what were basically curious onlookers. And they used too much violence in arresting people who were not violent and not-resisting, piling on and dragging them away as if panicked that hordes of protesters were going to surround them and start beating on them with iron clubs. I agree with that. According to one who was there, the police formed a line at Spadina to direct the march north, away from the 'fence'. However, once 'certain protesters dressed in black' approached, the police moved their line south on Spadina to let the protesters go south toward the fence, then they blocked them. It sure sounded weird to me ... like entrapment. Then the whole march kind of fell apart. I do think a full and independent inquiry is needed. Quote
msdogfood Posted July 20, 2010 Author Report Posted July 20, 2010 ah and what about "Officer Bubbles"- My link My link Quote
msdogfood Posted July 21, 2010 Author Report Posted July 21, 2010 It seems that it just can't get any stranger, but here you go: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/08/toronto-g20.html /facepalm Still trying to find it, but they are not going to be doing any investigations into any allegations of abuse by police during the G20. See now the real fun will begin!!! Quote
msdogfood Posted July 27, 2010 Author Report Posted July 27, 2010 Now for The Lawsuits G20 police shot rubber bullets, woman says Quote
msdogfood Posted August 3, 2010 Author Report Posted August 3, 2010 Call for police watchdogs growing across Canada by SIU more news. Quote
Bryan Posted August 3, 2010 Report Posted August 3, 2010 For 930 million dollars I expect the police to be able to do a lot better job than they did. So do I. I expected them to use significantly more force. Quote
msdogfood Posted August 5, 2010 Author Report Posted August 5, 2010 So do I. I expected them to use significantly more force. why so thay ca look like bigger moron's??. Quote
msdogfood Posted August 8, 2010 Author Report Posted August 8, 2010 $45M G20 class-action suit filed Quote
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