Canada’s Israel Lobby

[Jack Weber]

I was clear about labelling the cultural practices (terrorism and incitement, specifically) as equivalent to a natural threat to Israeli security, like an earthquake or an epidemic. How anyone can reject this reality is beyond me. I'm not gonna walk on eggshells with matters of life and death.

I'm not rejecting it...

[ToadBrother]

Ah. So if someone says, "I'm not saying Jews are a disease, I'm just saying they can be likened to a disease," you wouldn't find that antisemitic.

Please.

I know I would.

I don't think Palestinians are a disease. They have been for over half a century willing pawns in the Arab struggle against Israel, and more importantly as useful propaganda props as these incredibly inept and violent regimes redirect their own citizens from their vast failings.

[Bob]

I can't disagree with any of that....

However, to the first point...

Was'nt the warden at Dachau(I think it was Dachau) literally ripped to pieces by the people he held captive(and I fully understand the atrocities that took place at Dachau) at the end of the war?

I don't know. If he was, I'm sure it wasn't by the survivors who were near death.

[Jack Weber]

I don't know. If he was, I'm sure it wasn't by the survivors who were near death.

Probably not the emmaciated ones,but the more healthy ones...It was either Dachau or Belsen...

[Jack Weber]

I don't think Palestinians are a disease. They have been for over half a century willing pawns in the Arab struggle against Israel, and more importantly as useful propaganda props as these incredibly inept and violent regimes redirect their own citizens from their vast failings.

Disease or willful tool?

[Bob]

Probably not the emmaciated ones,but the more healthy ones...It was either Dachau or Belsen...

I think there's an important different to be drawn between the warden of a Nazi death camp and Israeli citizens making a wrong turn.

[Jack Weber]

I think there's an important different to be drawn between the warden of a Nazi death camp and Israeli citizens making a wrong turn.

True,but visceral anger on that level has to come from somewhere,right?

[bloodyminded]

That's inaccurate?

No, bob, racist bile is sober moral judgement.

When they openly danced in the streets when thousands were murdered on 9/11, was that savage?

When Suharto murdered possibly a million Indonesians in 1965--with full and eager support of Western governments--the NYTimes reported that the U.S. was "united in joy."

No doubt an exaggeration, but presumably lots and lots of people were thrilled at the mass murder of a million "communists" (ie students, activists, labour leaders, intellectuals, and peasants) with Western support.

Like I said, you're too ignorant and hate-filled,

Yes, you keep talking about how hate-filled i am, while i condemn racism and you embrace it.

Up is down. Black is white. Racists are love.

I only respond out of fear that some honest person might read your garbage and believe it.

No doubt some do. Live with it. Your extremist radical view, on the other hand, will only summon support from knuckeldraggers and bigots.

Edited June 17, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Jack Weber]

No, bob, racist bile is sober moral judgement.

When Suharto murdered possibly a million Indonesians in 1965--with full and eager support of Western governments--the NYTimes reported that the U.S. was "united in joy."

No doubt an exaggeration, but presumably lots and lots of people were thrilled at the mass murder of a million "communists" (ie students, activists, labour leaders, intellectuals, and peasants) with Western support.

Yes, you keep talking about how hate-filled i am, while i condemn racism and you embrace it.

Up is down. Black is white. Racists are love.

No doubt some do. Live with it. Your extremist radical view, on the other hand, will only summon support from knuckeldraggers and bigots.

Bob and Lictor should go at it....

[bloodyminded]

I don't think Palestinians are a disease. They have been for over half a century willing pawns in the Arab struggle against Israel, and more importantly as useful propaganda props as these incredibly inept and violent regimes redirect their own citizens from their vast failings.

You don't need to add a "yes, but," toadbrother.

My point was that the open, outright, stinking, vile racism towards the Palestinians doesn't offend you. At all.

which is why I don't think your outrage about antisemitism (which is no where near as prevalent or virulent on MLW as is the pantywaisted, drooling racism directed towards the Palestinians...not even close) is meaningful.

Racism towards the Palestinians is utterly acceptable.

By withering, politically dainty cowards, hostile to thought and who embrace moral relativism, and who lean towards the danker sectors of the reactionary Right.

I can't believe I still have the capacity to be astonished.

Edited June 17, 2010 by bloodyminded

[ToadBrother]

You don't need to add a "yes, but," toadbrother.

My point was that the open, outright, stinking, vile racism towards the Palestinians doesn't offend you. At all.

which is why I don't think your outrage about antisemitism (which is no where near as prevalent or virulent on MLW as is the pantywaisted, drooling racism directed towards the Palestinians...not even close) is meaningful.

Racism towards the Palestinians is utterly acceptable.

By withering, politically dainty cowards, hostile to thought and who embrace moral relativism, and who lean towards the danker sectors of the reactionary Right.

I can't believe I still have the capacity to be astonished.

First of all, screw you. I've never made a racist comment about the Palestinians, and this pathetic intellectually dishonest attempt to line me up on the wall is more a sign of your own failed moral compass than anything else.

I'm a supporter of Israel because it has repeatedly kicked the Arab world's collective ass multiple times, and any occupation of territory that it has done is pretty much been the norm of victorious belligerents since time began. That they consider any Palestinian claims legitimate is a sign of largess.

But some folks, unable to face the harsh realities of what happens to those who make war and fail at it will instead accuse someone like me of racism. Shame on you.

[ToadBrother]

Disease or willful tool?

Some, I'm sure are quite happy to go along with the Arab world. I'm sure most Palestinians just want their land back. What they don't back will not be because of Israel, but because their Arab brethren built spectacularly incompetent armed forces. If the Arabs hadn't gone to war against Israel in the beginning, the Palestinians would have pretty much everything they now believe they deserve.

[bloodyminded]

First of all, screw you. I've never made a racist comment about the Palestinians, and this pathetic intellectually dishonest attempt to line me up on the wall is more a sign of your own failed moral compass than anything else.

I'm a supporter of Israel because it has repeatedly kicked the Arab world's collective ass multiple times, and any occupation of territory that it has done is pretty much been the norm of victorious belligerents since time began. That they consider any Palestinian claims legitimate is a sign of largess.

But some folks, unable to face the harsh realities of what happens to those who make war and fail at it will instead accuse someone like me of racism. Shame on you.

Shame on you, my indocrinated brother.

No, you haven't made racist remarks about the Palestinians (aside from some questionable wishes that Israel could commit ethnic cleansing upon them once and for all...done that a few times, perhaps under the mistaken impression that it was clever, or something, Coulter-style.)

But you have been very critical of perceived antisemitism...and simultaneously, remained sedulously silent during the far worse, far more prevalent, far more offensive and outright racism against the Palestinians.

I"m not talking about "being a supporter of Israel" or of the Palestinians...I"m talking about the racism so common that you probably don't even see it.

Oh...until someone criticizes Israel, a terrible injustice in itself.

That's all pretty clear; your exact motivations (explained in your post here not at all) are your own.

[ToadBrother]

Shame on you, my indocrinated brother.

No, you haven't made racist remarks about the Palestinians (aside from some questionable wishes that Israel could commit ethnic cleansing upon them once and for all...done that a few times, perhaps under the mistaken impression that it was clever, or something, Coulter-style.)

But you have been very critical of perceived antisemitism...and simultaneously, remained sedulously silent during the far worse, far more prevalent, far more offensive and outright racism against the Palestinians.

I"m not talking about "being a supporter of Israel" or of the Palestinians...I"m talking about the racism so common that you probably don't even see it.

Oh...until someone criticizes Israel, a terrible injustice in itself.

That's all pretty clear; your exact motivations (explained in your post here not at all) are your own.

I openly challenge you to show any post where I have supported racist attitudes agains the Palestinians. Unless you can do that, I demand you withdraw your statement. Just because someone else here makes such statements cannot impugn me.

If you want to impugn anyone, my intellectually dishonest friend, start with that bigot Naomi who has been brining up the Jewish conspiracy all bloody day.

[Jack Weber]

I openly challenge you to show any post where I have supported racist attitudes agains the Palestinians. Unless you can do that, I demand you withdraw your statement. Just because someone else here makes such statements cannot impugn me.

If you want to impugn anyone, my intellectually dishonest friend, start with that bigot Naomi who has been brining up the Jewish conspiracy all bloody day.

Naomi is so crazy she can't begin to see where the craziness comes from...

See the 56% thread...

Edited June 17, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Bob]

After all these posts, bloodyminded continues to put his head in the sand regarding the realities of Arab and Muslim society in the Middle East. The endless examples of hatred and violence among them warrants no recognition. They want to kill us, they DO kill us, their leaders and governments openly declare they want to kill us, their TV shows and textbooks and newspapers advocate killing us, their fundamentalist religious values advocate killing us... yet acknowledging these realities makes one a racist. How many Jews have to be murdered by a group that openly states its aims before you can make generalizations about the group?

[Bob]

Shame on you, my indocrinated brother.

No, you haven't made racist remarks about the Palestinians (aside from some questionable wishes that Israel could commit ethnic cleansing upon them once and for all...done that a few times, perhaps under the mistaken impression that it was clever, or something, Coulter-style.)

But you have been very critical of perceived antisemitism...and simultaneously, remained sedulously silent during the far worse, far more prevalent, far more offensive and outright racism against the Palestinians.

I"m not talking about "being a supporter of Israel" or of the Palestinians...I"m talking about the racism so common that you probably don't even see it.

Oh...until someone criticizes Israel, a terrible injustice in itself.

That's all pretty clear; your exact motivations (explained in your post here not at all) are your own.

So are Jews and Palestinians equal peoples? Do both equally subscribe to universal values of freedom and democracy? Do both equally support and live by the same economic, social, and religious liberties?

[dre]

Bob and Lictor should go at it....

Good idea. They both have pretty much the exact same mentality.

[Jack Weber]

Good idea. They both have pretty much the exact same mentality.

Steel cage chainsaw chain match!!!!

[dre]

Steel cage chainsaw chain match!!!!

I am SO buyin tickets to that!

[Argus]

Asper once told a Toronto audience, “was an isolated island of democracy… in a sea of terrorism, corruption, dictatorship and human enslavement. Palestinian leaders … in their deadly campaign to destroy Israel … are aiming their bombs at innocent civilians or blowing up planes over Lockerbie…”

That's all pretty demonstrably true.

Given such views, it is not surprising that the Asper employed his media to urge Canadians to treat Arab leaders as “gangster terrorists”,

Do tell us which Arab leaders we would have been naturally inclined to treat as respectable, democratic statesmen were it not for the evil Jews controlling the media.

A short list will do.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

Are you aware that your cohort here, with whom you're gleefully agreeing point for point, is explicitly a racist?

I think you need to go get a dictionary and look up the term "racist".

Then, I think you should look up the word Semitic.

In terms of race, the majority of the Israelis are the SAME race as the Arabs.

[M.Dancer]

I never backtrack unless I have made a mistake.

You still have not shown what the exact percentage is to try to dispute the 'half' comment made in the article.

To me, it doesn't matter if it's 40%, 50% or 60%. It is still a very LARGE share of the Canadian media that was owned for a significant period of time by a self-described zionist who was part of the Israeli lobby in Canada.

Keep screaming conspiracy like it makes sense.

Two things...one is your claim that Asper, the Jew controls (and you have backed down form nearly 50% to 40%) the media...this is false. The number is actually far less....less than 20%

Asper owned no more than 12 mainstream dailies...out of mnore than 80 daily newspapers...

http://www.cna-acj.ca/en/aboutnewspapers/media/canadian-dailies

Then you add weekly papers totalling 120 (I challenge that number but hey, it still makes you look bad...

http://www.communitynews.ca/default2.asp

The second thing is the spurious claim that because of asper the j00...these papers are part of the j00 conspiracy lobby and distribute asper's message...

Both claims are false and are common with your ilk.

There are over 700 community papers in canada alone ...

[M.Dancer]

a self-described zionist who was part of the Israeli lobby in Canada.

I call bullshit.

Lobbiest are registered. If he is an israeli lobbiest I'm sure you will be able to post this publicly available information from the appropriate governement site for us all to see.

I'm sure you won't though because you are as honest as you are smert

[Oleg Bach]

Dealing with the Jews in depth for a period of over five years - I leaned one thing - that they are powerful - but not that powerful...It was a perlonged litigation - and the Jews did not hire "good Jewish lawyers" as stero-typically might be suspected - they hired or were forced to hire a powerful ANGLO SAXON firm..what I saw after a few years of beating them up in the courts is that they repented - and wanted to settle - in fact even a letter of apology was about to be presented - BUT the anglo elite - would not permit a settlement - don't blame the Jews or their "lobby" - the cruel and hard anglos are in total control.. It is easy to say "the jews did it" - they have been scape goats for centuries..the reality is - that the state - the empire - are in control-- as with the Romans - the Jews are not guilty of usery at the high end of the spectrum - it is the anglo germanics and their cohorts that have control - In America it might be a bit different - but I suspect that even though there are many Jewish members of congress - these positions are strictly honourary.