Conspiracy Theory

[Pliny]

http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2008/12/deficits-cause-crowding-in-by-reducing-deflation.html

Did Harper's 108 billion (roughly) increase our aggregate demand? Russia and China think so, so does the EU and Germany and likely others, at this stage in ZIRP though the Canadian people don't think so. I think we need to see what will happen when the stimulus stops. No sense really at this stage even considering the US on these terms. Nothing will increase demand for their bonds/assets any time to soon.

Investors, and thus money, are looking for places to invest. The risks are too high in the usual places. They are reluctantly going to commodities for safety.

Aggregate demand for money has not increased. I watch the States more than Canada, and although I think this true in both countries, I believe the reasons are different. America is not sure what Obama is all about. He seems to be government oriented in providing solutions which are questionable in supporting business to operate freely. There is the fear that he will over-regulate the economy. He doesn't like big profits and thinks market solutions are inadequate. So he leaves the economy with no direction and people have to wait and see what the government will do.

Harper, being less of an interventionist, is continuing with economic policies that are used under more normal economic circumstances, which is more where Canada is than the States. We are hesitantly continuing with business as usual but watching the global economy with some trepidations.

[Rue]

There's no grand conspiracy, I think at worst there are networks of interests that are integrated in the way a school of piranha are. There maybe a lot of nodding and winking going on amongst them when times are good but they'll also take a chunk out of one another if need be.

I think there is an enormous amount of moral dissonance in the world that's driving people nuts. This is made even more acute when institutions people trust to make our world and society a functional place that makes sense, do something that seems completely contrary to their stated principles. Take the question "how could anyone (like a church, a financial sector or a shining beacon) do such a thing" for example. The inability to explain the really untoward things they do often leads to conspiracy theories that fill the gaps of reason and information that have accumulated throughout so much time (history) and space, given it's a big complicated and interconnected world out there.

Well said. Precise, susinct. You have made me expendable in this world. Fine I will disappear and let you take over. The piranha analogy was dead on. I tend to use baboon tribe analogies but in this case I think your analogy is better.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Rue

[Yesterday]

Well, I think your understanding of finance is different and perhaps more advanced than mine. So I expect to do some learning.

Hi Pliny, do you have a background in finance of any type? I do not, that may be in part why my view may seem so different. That and the fact that this is my first foray into the world of global finance and policy. Anything I may teach you will be an inadvertent pleasure and anything you have to teach me will be well received.

There is a reason for my encouraging a conversation on this conspiracy thread. Just finding you here shows me that you may have been reading/watching to some extent alternative media. How in depth is your understanding of the main concepts of wealth redistribution and global currency according to alternative information highways? It is quite a global revolution according to some.

So I say to myself ‘this is what they would have me believe?’. Well, if this is the way of it I should be able to look out at the global horizon and see methods of implementation both inadvertent and contrived that would show a strategy and final outcome to support their design.

The main points of interest to me are: global redistribution of wealth, global market fraud settlements and the return to asset backed dollar system globally.

Where ZIRP is concerned I want to ignore the main stream rant. I find research papers most unbiased as compared the newsprint articles. Alternative media paints a picture of the bankruptcies going on around the world coupled with the blowout of market fraud and manipulation as 2 very large nails in the coffin of the current fractionated/interest/debt=asset system. In fact, there is quite a bit of bravado and certainty that this change is inevitable. So I’m thinking, since ZIRP is a major global reaction to this global recession, bankruptcies and debt there should be a way to paint this scenario to the advantage of a coming asset backed system.

As for the redistribution of wealth, there is the UNFCCC G8 production tax platform for the underdeveloped and developing countries. They even call it a redistribution of wealth.

The global market resolutions/settlements are negotiations of the type mentioned in the research papers of Peters and Peters Law firm UK (mondaq.com)regarding market fraud, embezzlement and tax evasion cases in the Supreme Courts of many US states and all over the world. One such resolution/settlement related to this is the Swiss relinquishing roughly 5000 bank accounts to the US all of which are fingered in various fraud/tax evasion schemes. CMKM/CMKX is another related situation, a very complex one along with FFGO, Hunt Gold and others. China’s recent uncomfortable squeeze regarding their export practices and whether or not any untoward market manipulation had been going on is another. Hence the changes of heart over their fixed interest rate and export reduction goals (amongst other reasons). This list is rather long.

I’ll post some links…

[Yesterday]

Under "ZIRP", which I believe is a policy forced by circumstance rather than the choice of governments, normal means to increase the money supply have to be abandoned. In other words it has reached the bottom of the discount rate and commercial banks have high reserves so it cannot lower reserve requirements or interests rates any further. Those tools are gone. So the central bank resorts to buying government bonds from commercial banks to inject capital and stimulate economic activity. I don't say economic "growth" because stimulating economic activity is closer to the truth. Economic growth from stimulus money is perhaps a band-aid to growth but that growth is suspect to a continuation of malinvestment and bad business practices that killed the economy in the first place.

I agree with you about being forced. I question the source of the force. 'May the force be with you Luke'...giggle. What caused the reaching of the bottom of the discount rate? Did the implementation of ZIRP cause the bottoming out or is ZIRP a result of this?

Aggregate demand for money has not increased. I watch the States more than Canada, and although I think this true in both countries, I believe the reasons are different. America is not sure what Obama is all about. He seems to be government oriented in providing solutions which are questionable in supporting business to operate freely. There is the fear that he will over-regulate the economy. He doesn't like big profits and thinks market solutions are inadequate. So he leaves the economy with no direction and people have to wait and see what the government will do.

Perhaps my definition of aggregate is too broad. Looking at this situation from a point of view that global production needs to slow down and be re-balanced amongst nations (redistribution of wealth platform)I was including the desire of other developed nations to start acquiring Canadian bonds like Russia, China and quite possibly Germany as a type of aggregate demand. Since any major growth in actual production which increases money in circulation which lends to borrowing would not really support a reduction of production and a reduction in the amount of fiat based dollars in circulation.

Obama is between a rock and a hard place. I am in the process of reading the new financial reform bill. As for his new watch dog group...Bernake was a major supporter of gold exchange in the 70s. I need to read more before delving to far into Obama's position...Gaitner (spelling?)spent a few weeks in China on the war path about market manipulation and massive volumes of export plus, plus...I know there too many reasons to think the US situation is aimless but there are just a few things that could paint a different more together picture. I need to get through this bill first...

more later...

[Pliny]

Hi Pliny, do you have a background in finance of any type? I do not, that may be in part why my view may seem so different. That and the fact that this is my first foray into the world of global finance and policy. Anything I may teach you will be an inadvertent pleasure and anything you have to teach me will be well received.

I have no financial background but I am an advocate and proponent of Austrian Economic theory.

There is a reason for my encouraging a conversation on this conspiracy thread. Just finding you here shows me that you may have been reading/watching to some extent alternative media. How in depth is your understanding of the main concepts of wealth redistribution and global currency according to alternative information highways? It is quite a global revolution according to some.

I agree. The IMF is trying to be set up as the overseer in that wealth distribution.

So I say to myself ‘this is what they would have me believe?’. Well, if this is the way of it I should be able to look out at the global horizon and see methods of implementation both inadvertent and contrived that would show a strategy and final outcome to support their design.

The problems of the world are the problems that the governing bodies perceive. Their primary concerns are over-population, non-renewable resource depletion, pollution - and of prime importance is maintaining and consolidating the governing structure and heirarchic order.

Can you see any design to handle these importances?

Actually, I think the ruling bodies have done a fair job over the last half century and tried to make the best of things for us but their concerns are becoming big worries to them. They now are shifting their focus to slowing growth and development, to save resources and keep populations down. But the trick is to keep revenues high enough without economic growth to support governmental management of global concerns.

They have a problem with oil. It is a non-renewable resource but governments, both national and international government bodies, are dependent in large part on oil revenues for sustaining themselves. Before they can find alternative energy sources they have to replace lost revenues from less oil consumption.

This may be where ZIRP ties in. We get little economic growth but governments can create money for government spending. Not too many people will be hurt by this except those who are economically ambitious and can't realize big entrepreneurial gains. That's just a thought I had on it. Another advantage is that people will get used to being more thrifty; consuming less and being less wasteful.

The main points of interest to me are: global redistribution of wealth, global market fraud settlements and the return to asset backed dollar system globally.

In my view, government would only return to an asset backed dollar at teh point of a gun. You may see economists or financial advisors calling for an asset backed dollar but that isn't going to be the direction of government.

The redistribution of wealth is really a call to fund governments and allow avenues for new sources of revenues to open up. Of course, funds for underdeveloped nations have to be the purpose forwarded fo tthis necessity.

I know very little about global market fraud settlements. Unless you are talking about people trying to hide their assets from government. And that is all they are trying to do. Governments, needing resources, are squeezing those activities. The loopholes they leave themselves will eventually be found and money will hide there.

Where ZIRP is concerned I want to ignore the main stream rant. I find research papers most unbiased as compared the newsprint articles. Alternative media paints a picture of the bankruptcies going on around the world coupled with the blowout of market fraud and manipulation as 2 very large nails in the coffin of the current fractionated/interest/debt=asset system. In fact, there is quite a bit of bravado and certainty that this change is inevitable. So I’m thinking, since ZIRP is a major global reaction to this global recession, bankruptcies and debt there should be a way to paint this scenario to the advantage of a coming asset backed system.

I can't see an asset backed system comoing into play. That is heresy but I know there are economists who are demanding it. Austrian economic theory demands an asset backed system.

I’ll post some links…

Good enough.

[Pliny]

I agree with you about being forced. I question the source of the force. 'May the force be with you Luke'...giggle. What caused the reaching of the bottom of the discount rate? Did the implementation of ZIRP cause the bottoming out or is ZIRP a result of this?

ZIRP is a solution. Ignoring economic reality was the cause of it's seeming necessity. Frankly, if there were a plan to develop a common North American currency, I can't think of a better one than what is happening with the US dollar right now.

Perhaps my definition of aggregate is too broad. Looking at this situation from a point of view that global production needs to slow down and be re-balanced amongst nations (redistribution of wealth platform)I was including the desire of other developed nations to start acquiring Canadian bonds like Russia, China and quite possibly Germany as a type of aggregate demand. Since any major growth in actual production which increases money in circulation which lends to borrowing would not really support a reduction of production and a reduction in the amount of fiat based dollars in circulation.

Keynesian economic theory deals with aggregates as opposed to individual contributors to the economy. Governments look at aggregate statistics and numbers to determine monetary and fiscal policy. They don't look at each companies production levels to make those determinations.

Obama is between a rock and a hard place. I am in the process of reading the new financial reform bill. As for his new watch dog group...Bernake was a major supporter of gold exchange in the 70s. I need to read more before delving to far into Obama's position...Gaitner (spelling?)spent a few weeks in China on the war path about market manipulation and massive volumes of export plus, plus...I know there too many reasons to think the US situation is aimless but there are just a few things that could paint a different more together picture. I need to get through this bill first...

more later...

Well, I think national sovereignty is being eroded and the mantra is to think globally. The US is the hardest nut to crack in the case of national sovereignty. The rest of the world, besides a few trouble spots, are ready to form global governance and run things from the UN. Most Canadians see nothing wrong with losing national sovereignty but Liberals will complain if their is too much American influence.

[Yesterday]

ZIRP is a solution. Ignoring economic reality was the cause of it's seeming necessity. Frankly, if there were a plan to develop a common North American currency, I can't think of a better one than what is happening with the US dollar right now.

I'm reading like crazy right now....I don't know if it will be a North American currency, good point though because that seems to be what is happening in Asian Union and EU. There was rumors awhile ago I remember reading them but I don't remember Harper being to happy about it and I look at how comfortable he is being with the EU and I wonder is it possible to share a currency from over there as opposed to over here? I must say, the other 2 things I wanted to understand/find where much easier than this. Don't give up on me though, I'm working hard on getting it. Right now I am reading The theory and practice of banking: with the elementary principles ..., Volume 2 By Henry Dunning Macleod

http://books.google.ca/books?id=9_lKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA377&lpg=PA377&dq=decrease+in+circulating+currency&source=bl&ots=RoVlVTh9NL&sig=wbiLN96RcENxVfru1edVcBgdwSg&hl=en&ei=nlEpTO2jG8OclgeO7-G8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBcQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=decrease%20in%20circulating%20currency&f=false

I put in a search title 'decreasing currency in circulation' and this is what I got of interest. It is interesting too. I would of never thought I would finances so interesting. I am honestly fascinated by it.

So you think ZIRP is the action tabled to fix this problem without removing fiat money? I am beginning to understand more about it and I think I would have to agree with you. Still though, how is or is this ZIRP in any way responsible for decreasing the currency in circulation? If so it could be one of those inadvertent bonuses for the non-fiat faction.

Keynesian economic theory deals with aggregates as opposed to individual contributors to the economy. Governments look at aggregate statistics and numbers to determine monetary and fiscal policy. They don't look at each companies production levels to make those determinations.

I had been looking at the money being invested in Canada by Russia, China and any others found for government bonds as part of the aggregate demand . I read up on this theory and a few others like it just briefly in the last few days. If you can't stun them with brilliance - baffle them with bull*(bury them in profits). As in...as long as my proposal is profitable it doesn't matter how good or realistic it is... I'll keep reading.

Well, I think national sovereignty is being eroded and the mantra is to think globally. The US is the hardest nut to crack in the case of national sovereignty. The rest of the world, besides a few trouble spots, are ready to form global governance and run things from the UN. Most Canadians see nothing wrong with losing national sovereignty but Liberals will complain if their is too much American influence.

I could perhaps agree with you that some things point to this globalization but more so in the finance department then in the cultural department. I can see a global currency for sure and I think that would go a long way to stabilizing global standards and I can see a very long term objective of global equalized production and trade but that's as far as it goes IMO. Culture is very dear to most and that culture stems from individuality. I can see borders being opened that have been long closed in the not to far away future but a country is a country, a living entity and one I do not foresee ever dying. The giving up of sovereignty does not need to happen for global co-operation and IMO is a platform shouldered by fanatics.

Have you ever heard of 'The Accords'? I'm looking for a link. It is a paper published on a NESARA site, please don't disqualify this because of its publisher. I am not a NESARA person! However, this paper is VERY interesting and I have been trying to legitimize it for a few months now. I wonder if it is true...I'm going for the link right now...

I can understand how you would think this of the UN...all I can say is thankfully so far they are not a regulating faction. They are working hard though to put stable forms of future directions for governing parties on the table for consideration.

[Yesterday]

This is the link to 'The Accords'. You have to weed through the weird stuff and focus on just a few very interesting paragraphs of which I'll post here for reference. For the most part this paper contains all the usual rhetoric associated with conspiracy people but these paragraphs here actually have to do with the 'Global Settlements' that I mentioned earlier. I have peripheral links but I go back a few months of searches to find them...

When these farmers began to seek legal action against the banks they soon realized that the government and banks where working in collusion with each other. So in the early 1990's, they sought the help of the Farmers Union and did in depth research on all the banks illegal activities. A series of lawsuits where initiated against the banks and the government. Over 336,000 Farm Claims filed for fraud against the U.S. Federal Government with an average of $20 million dollars per claim. This amounts to $6.6 trillion total

These court cases ran up and down various state and federal courts from 1970's till the 1990's. Then in 1992-1993, the farmers appealed their case to the US supreme court. Almost unanimously the U.S. Supreme Court Justices ruled that the Farmers Union claims were VALID and that the U.S. federal government and the banks had seriously defrauded the farmers, and all U.S. citizens, out of vast sums of money and property. Furthermore the court ruled the shocking truth that the IRS and the Federal Reserve where unlawful, that the income tax amendment was never ratified by the US states, and that the US government had illegally foreclosed on farmers homes with the help of federal agencies. Irrefutable proof of such was presented by a retired CIA agent. He provided testimony and records of the banks illegal activity, to lead further evidence that the Farmers' Union claims were legitimate.

After the trial, the damages process name was changed to Bank Claims. From 1993 through 1996, U.S. citizens filed Bank Claims against the banks and the federal government through the U.S. Treasury Department to obtain payment for the damages as specified by the U.S. Supreme Court. (This process CLOSED in 1996.)

To implement the required changes, the five Justices spent years negotiating how the reformations would occur. These agreements , known as "Accords" where made with the U.S. government, the Federal Reserve Bank owners, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and with numerous other countries including the United Kingdom and countries of the Euro Zone.

This last paragraph paints a bit of a different picture of who is fighting for the asset backed system. If such is the case, perhaps Obama's struggle is more legit them at first thought. ZIRP would have to be definitely be a method to fix the fiat system to avoid the asset backed system perhaps rightly so at least for right now. Be leery of those who push an asset backed system for right now anyways these mentioned groups do not necessarily have good motivations at heart regardless of the situation at hand that could force a win for them. That is, if there is any legitimacy to this paper. I need to read more about the reform bill...

This has been going on for some time, so the IMF, and World Bank got together along with the Rothschild family to set up a new global banking system backed by gold. This will ultimately kill the Federal Reserve System which is worthless fiat money. It was approved by congress on September 19, 2007. On October 19, 2007, at midnight the U.S. treasury of the Republic went on-line with the Global Banking System. The next step is announcing this to the public, but it's not an easy task to do.

[Yesterday]

This is the link to 'The Accords'. You have to weed through the weird stuff and focus on just a few very interesting paragraphs of which I'll post here for reference. For the most part this paper contains all the usual rhetoric associated with conspiracy people but these paragraphs here actually have to do with the 'Global Settlements' that I mentioned earlier. I have peripheral links but I have to go back through a few months of searches to find them...

When these farmers began to seek legal action against the banks they soon realized that the government and banks where working in collusion with each other. So in the early 1990's, they sought the help of the Farmers Union and did in depth research on all the banks illegal activities. A series of lawsuits where initiated against the banks and the government. Over 336,000 Farm Claims filed for fraud against the U.S. Federal Government with an average of $20 million dollars per claim. This amounts to $6.6 trillion total

These court cases ran up and down various state and federal courts from 1970's till the 1990's. Then in 1992-1993, the farmers appealed their case to the US supreme court. Almost unanimously the U.S. Supreme Court Justices ruled that the Farmers Union claims were VALID and that the U.S. federal government and the banks had seriously defrauded the farmers, and all U.S. citizens, out of vast sums of money and property. Furthermore the court ruled the shocking truth that the IRS and the Federal Reserve where unlawful, that the income tax amendment was never ratified by the US states, and that the US government had illegally foreclosed on farmers homes with the help of federal agencies. Irrefutable proof of such was presented by a retired CIA agent. He provided testimony and records of the banks illegal activity, to lead further evidence that the Farmers' Union claims were legitimate.

After the trial, the damages process name was changed to Bank Claims. From 1993 through 1996, U.S. citizens filed Bank Claims against the banks and the federal government through the U.S. Treasury Department to obtain payment for the damages as specified by the U.S. Supreme Court. (This process CLOSED in 1996.)

To implement the required changes, the five Justices spent years negotiating how the reformations would occur. These agreements , known as "Accords" where made with the U.S. government, the Federal Reserve Bank owners, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and with numerous other countries including the United Kingdom and countries of the Euro Zone.

This last paragraph paints a bit of a different picture of who is fighting for the asset backed system. If such is the case, perhaps Obama's struggle is more legit then at first thought. ZIRP would have to be definitely be a method to fix the fiat system to avoid the asset backed system perhaps rightly so at least for right now. Be leery of those who push an asset backed system for right now, these mentioned groups fighting for the asset backed system do not necessarily have good motivations at heart regardless of the situation at hand which could force a win for them. That is, if there is any legitimacy to this paper. I need to read more about the reform bill...

This has been going on for some time, so the IMF, and World Bank got together along with the Rothschild family to set up a new global banking system backed by gold. This will ultimately kill the Federal Reserve System which is worthless fiat money. It was approved by congress on September 19, 2007. On October 19, 2007, at midnight the U.S. treasury of the Republic went on-line with the Global Banking System. The next step is announcing this to the public, but it's not an easy task to do.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Yesterday

[Pliny]

I'm reading like crazy right now....I don't know if it will be a North American currency, good point though because that seems to be what is happening in Asian Union and EU. There was rumors awhile ago I remember reading them but I don't remember Harper being to happy about it and I look at how comfortable he is being with the EU and I wonder is it possible to share a currency from over there as opposed to over here? I must say, the other 2 things I wanted to understand/find where much easier than this. Don't give up on me though, I'm working hard on getting it. Right now I am reading The theory and practice of banking: with the elementary principles ..., Volume 2 By Henry Dunning Macleod

http://books.google.ca/books?id=9_lKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA377&lpg=PA377&dq=decrease+in+circulating+currency&source=bl&ots=RoVlVTh9NL&sig=wbiLN96RcENxVfru1edVcBgdwSg&hl=en&ei=nlEpTO2jG8OclgeO7-G8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBcQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=decrease%20in%20circulating%20currency&f=false

I put in a search title 'decreasing currency in circulation' and this is what I got of interest. It is interesting too. I would of never thought I would finances so interesting. I am honestly fascinated by it.

It's supposed to be boring. You are not supposed to look there.

So you think ZIRP is the action tabled to fix this problem without removing fiat money? I am beginning to understand more about it and I think I would have to agree with you. Still though, how is or is this ZIRP in any way responsible for decreasing the currency in circulation? If so it could be one of those inadvertent bonuses for the non-fiat faction.

ZIRP is not responsible for decreasing currency in circulation. It is trying to increase it. You will notice that banks have the highest reserves they have ever had. So why aren't they lending out vast amounts of money. I think the reason is that the economy is not stable enough. People are waiting to see what is going to happen and watching each and every monetary and fiscal policy that the government comes out with hoping it will magically restore lost confidence. As usual, the policies are designed to increase economic activity to boost sagging government revenues, and with that being the prime concern a healthy economy becomes impossible for several reasons. One being stimulus money boosts the wrong things in the economy and two, because tax increases and new taxes are always being bandied about making business skittish about capital investments and credit.

Banks are not lending in the States but are being very cautious. Obama is unpredictable in what he will do. He may nationalize the whole banking industry. Canada is different in that banks are more or less a nationalized cartel and there is a little more confidence in Canada because we didn't have 60 bank failures like the US, with ten times the population and GDP, had 600 after the 2008 crash.

I had been looking at the money being invested in Canada by Russia, China and any others found for government bonds as part of the aggregate demand . I read up on this theory and a few others like it just briefly in the last few days. If you can't stun them with brilliance - baffle them with bull*(bury them in profits). As in...as long as my proposal is profitable it doesn't matter how good or realistic it is... I'll keep reading.

I haven't looked at this much.

I could perhaps agree with you that some things point to this globalization but more so in the finance department then in the cultural department. I can see a global currency for sure and I think that would go a long way to stabilizing global standards and I can see a very long term objective of global equalized production and trade but that's as far as it goes IMO. Culture is very dear to most and that culture stems from individuality. I can see borders being opened that have been long closed in the not to far away future but a country is a country, a living entity and one I do not foresee ever dying. The giving up of sovereignty does not need to happen for global co-operation and IMO is a platform shouldered by fanatics.

Well... call me a fanatic. I agree the giving up of sovereignty does not need to happen for global co-operation but it cannot be denied that it is being given up with things like cap and trade treaties and global taxation

If you note multiculturalism is about the preservation of cultures and it is a policy of Canada and other governments to encourage the preservation of culture, so culture is not contained by national boundaries and has nothing to do with national sovereignty. The moving around of cultures through immigration policies undermines national sovereignty and promotes a "multi-cultural" global system not a national culture. This is social engineering and out of it, I think the goal is to arrive at an homogeneous global population with no real national ties. Once again the US is hardest nut to crack because it has always been considered a melting pot of nations, and it truly was successful in evolving an American culture that was a meld of other cultures and not a forced "engineered" multi-cultural nation.

Have you ever heard of 'The Accords'? I'm looking for a link. It is a paper published on a NESARA site, please don't disqualify this because of its publisher. I am not a NESARA person! However, this paper is VERY interesting and I have been trying to legitimize it for a few months now. I wonder if it is true...I'm going for the link right now...

I heard of NESARA several years ago. I came to the conclusion at about the same time that conspiracy theories come out of people's lack of information or understanding and the void is filled with their imagination.

If I remember correctly, I think NESARA had some good points regarding the Constitutional legality of the Federal Reserve system, income tax and the IRS. I agree with them on several points however it remains in the realm of conspiracy theories because it vilifies the government and accuses a cabal of people of purposely

perpetrating evil upon the citizenry.

My view is that the government and the power brokers always do what it feels is best for the people, that they are wrong does not make them evil. At worst they are meddling do-gooders and selfish egotists running experimental social engineering projects that they hope will leave them a legacy. I do not rule out there may be one or two people with more sinister traits like having ill-intentions towards others or a penchant for creating chaos, People like Hitler, Stalin and Mao come to mind. Maybe even Nixon with his enemies list. Carter I would consider one of those do-gooding meddlers.

If you want a good read about the Federal Reserve system I have heard that "The Creature form Jekyll Island" is good. I think it is written by Edward Griffin. I haven't read it myself but several people have referred me to it.

I can understand how you would think this of the UN...all I can say is thankfully so far they are not a regulating faction. They are working hard though to put stable forms of future directions for governing parties on the table for consideration.

Yes. They want more teeth. They should and will probably go the way of the League of Nations.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Pliny

[Yesterday]

It's supposed to be boring. You are not supposed to look there.

Giggle

Well... call me a fanatic. I agree the giving up of sovereignty does not need to happen for global co-operation but it cannot be denied that it is being given up with things like cap and trade treaties and global taxation

If you are a fanatic you are a nice one...giggle again. I think the NESARA people are fanatics somehow I don't think you fit the bill.

This is an example of an Accord. There are different kinds, some are international and some national. The US reform bill should also show some of this work.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:22535805~pagePK:64257043~piPK:437376~theSitePK:4607,00.html

ZIRP is not responsible for decreasing currency in circulation. It is trying to increase it. You will notice that banks have the highest reserves they have ever had. So why aren't they lending out vast amounts of money.

I am beginning to understand a bit more about ZIRP and I think you might be hitting the nail on the head in scrutinizing why the banks are not putting cash out for circulation. I do understand a bit about the fact that the low interest coupled with the premium associated with the higher risk in public loan/versus government very low if not negative interest coupled with the lower premium puts banks in a position to favor government loans as the profits are guaranteed even if less in volume. This is creating a situation where the currency for circulation is being concentrated and not released.

Perhaps though, this is just a developing thought...in terms of a reset to either/both an asset backed currency/global currency. Any concentration of fiat debt/currency in circulation would make a big difference in the transition to this asset backed system. Perhaps the banks can not let loose until the reserves are revalued. Where would you start a process of this nature? Any opinions are welcome...

[Pliny]

Giggle

If you are a fanatic you are a nice one...giggle again. I think the NESARA people are fanatics somehow I don't think you fit the bill.

This is an example of an Accord. There are different kinds, some are international and some national. The US reform bill should also show some of this work.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:22535805~pagePK:64257043~piPK:437376~theSitePK:4607,00.html

I am beginning to understand a bit more about ZIRP and I think you might be hitting the nail on the head in scrutinizing why the banks are not putting cash out for circulation. I do understand a bit about the fact that the low interest coupled with the premium associated with the higher risk in public loan/versus government very low if not negative interest coupled with the lower premium puts banks in a position to favor government loans as the profits are guaranteed even if less in volume. This is creating a situation where the currency for circulation is being concentrated and not released.

Perhaps though, this is just a developing thought...in terms of a reset to either/both an asset backed currency/global currency. Any concentration of fiat debt/currency in circulation would make a big difference in the transition to this asset backed system. Perhaps the banks can not let loose until the reserves are revalued. Where would you start a process of this nature? Any opinions are welcome...

We have several global problems. I have mentioned them before, depletion of renewable resources, overpopulation, pollution and climate change. How would you resolve these problems? Take a look at what is currently being talked about in the news and see which problem they relate to an dhow they may be a solution.

We can take for instance euthanasia. It seems to be a topic of interest? What problem would the implementation of Euthanasia help to solve? Gay rights are in the news. What problem could encouraging gay rights and the normalization of homosexuality?

[Yesterday]

We have several global problems. I have mentioned them before, depletion of renewable resources, overpopulation, pollution and climate change. How would you resolve these problems? Take a look at what is currently being talked about in the news and see which problem they relate to an dhow they may be a solution.

We can take for instance euthanasia. It seems to be a topic of interest? What problem would the implementation of Euthanasia help to solve? Gay rights are in the news. What problem could encouraging gay rights and the normalization of homosexuality?

Yes, there are more than just a few issues that make for good conversation.

Depletion of renewable resources...I have spent the last 3 years developing a campus for alternative energy technology, actually any budding concept for environmental technological change. An R&D facility...

Overpopulation is interesting, there seems to be quite a lot of controversy with this topic. Fundamental controversy regarding if there is an overpopulation issue. I watched a very interesting video that depicted the possibility of the Muslim people overshadowing the Caucasian people in less than 100 years. I can link it for you... I don't have an opinion myself where this is concerned. My main worry is about the consumption rate of the people on earth. At current rates, no we could not support a much larger population. With stats that show almost irreversible population decline within most white races, when I do think about this, I wonder about such things as: what will happen to cultures that we as white people hold dear. I envision what a world would look like with only little pockets of white skins on a globe dominated by others. I don't necessarily view it as a bad thing as much as perhaps just an inevitable thing and it makes me want to pay extra attention to how white peoples culture is recorded. I consider the value of recorded history (contrary to my remarks on the socialist/fascist board as this part of history greatly saddens me so I avoid most topics in which major atrocities must be dealt with, I get lost in the emotions that well up in me and usually end up needing to be creative and expressive and thus fail to finish absorbing the piece of history I was trying to learn, I'm much more balanced with less emotionally tied issues) as perhaps a most important subject.

Euthanasia...for me this is one of those things that should be a personal decision made at the appropriate time in an individuals life. I'm a live and let live kind of person. The same said for gay rights and such. As long as the said person is not putting anyone in danger outside of themselves or another consenting individual, have at it, life is too short.

[Pliny]

Yes, there are more than just a few issues that make for good conversation.

Depletion of renewable resources...I have spent the last 3 years developing a campus for alternative energy technology, actually any budding concept for environmental technological change. An R&D facility...

Overpopulation is interesting, there seems to be quite a lot of controversy with this topic. Fundamental controversy regarding if there is an overpopulation issue. I watched a very interesting video that depicted the possibility of the Muslim people overshadowing the Caucasian people in less than 100 years. I can link it for you... I don't have an opinion myself where this is concerned. My main worry is about the consumption rate of the people on earth. At current rates, no we could not support a much larger population. With stats that show almost irreversible population decline within most white races, when I do think about this, I wonder about such things as: what will happen to cultures that we as white people hold dear. I envision what a world would look like with only little pockets of white skins on a globe dominated by others. I don't necessarily view it as a bad thing as much as perhaps just an inevitable thing and it makes me want to pay extra attention to how white peoples culture is recorded. I consider the value of recorded history (contrary to my remarks on the socialist/fascist board as this part of history greatly saddens me so I avoid most topics in which major atrocities must be dealt with, I get lost in the emotions that well up in me and usually end up needing to be creative and expressive and thus fail to finish absorbing the piece of history I was trying to learn, I'm much more balanced with less emotionally tied issues) as perhaps a most important subject.

There is a necessity to learn them so as not to repeat them. Most were atrocities of men who seized a concentrated or centralized point of power. It behooves us to keep power in the hands of everyone and not centralize it. Even though we may have a hundred good years under good men under a centralized government, the one indivudual that would use that power for destruction would rend that society to the ground in short order.

Euthanasia...for me this is one of those things that should be a personal decision made at the appropriate time in an individuals life. I'm a live and let live kind of person. The same said for gay rights and such. As long as the said person is not putting anyone in danger outside of themselves or another consenting individual, have at it, life is too short.

But you do see how these issues which are today merely topics of discussion to resolve global social issues become tomorrows laws? Certainly these should not be issues of government but remain issues of society and it's evolutionary progress as opposed to the centralized and enforced engineered solutions of government that tend to be about privilege and favour benefiting some at the expense of others.

[bloodyminded]

But you do see how these issues which are today merely topics of discussion to resolve global social issues become tomorrows laws? Certainly these should not be issues of government but remain issues of society and it's evolutionary progress as opposed to the centralized and enforced engineered solutions of government that tend to be about privilege and favour benefiting some at the expense of others.

If the MacLean's poll is correct--and they're hardly a bastion of leftish "social justice" issues--then 70% of Canadians support same sex marriage.

So to deny their right sounds like "social engineering" and is in opposition to the "evolutionary progress" of changing social norms.

[Yesterday]

There is a necessity to learn them so as not to repeat them. Most were atrocities of men who seized a concentrated or centralized point of power. It behooves us to keep power in the hands of everyone and not centralize it. Even though we may have a hundred good years under good men under a centralized government, the one individual that would use that power for destruction would rend that society to the ground in short order.

This is true. I have read 2 lengthy biographies of Hitler. A little bit about the fall of the Soviet Union...lots about the Highland clearances and Scotland in general within the 1600s to the 1800s. What I tend to do is concentrate specifically on history that would support a current situation that has captured my interest. It tends to be a very focused course of study. There is more than enough current horror to deal with. This is my motivation to understand the laws/legislations/directions of global leaders. I feel as you do about the one world government/ruler. Most people do I think.

But you do see how these issues which are today merely topics of discussion to resolve global social issues become tomorrows laws? Certainly these should not be issues of government but remain issues of society and it's evolutionary progress as opposed to the centralized and enforced engineered solutions of government that tend to be about privilege and favour benefiting some at the expense of others.

Yes, yes I do see the relevance and impact of said discussions. I tend to look at most scenarios as ones that have taken effect in 100 years or more. I do look at the current mentalities and wonder where it/they will take us in the not so far away future.

It is a dream of mine to build a political science campus...to discuss and shape the effect the you mention here. My interest does not stem from a great and worthy knowledge of politics but from the understanding of how important the quality of politicians we let loose on this world is. I would like to contribute by creating the space for such growth to happen.

[Pliny]

If the MacLean's poll is correct--and they're hardly a bastion of leftish "social justice" issues--then 70% of Canadians support same sex marriage.

So to deny their right sounds like "social engineering" and is in opposition to the "evolutionary progress" of changing social norms.

Same sex what? Marriage by definition is the union of a man and a woman. I don't think there is too much opposition to them having their own union and even the same rights given married people. But we have been over this already. Married people shouldn't have more rights than any any other individual. So basically, married people have been granted special privileges by government. It looks like gays will be getting the same privileges. And my beef would be that married people should't have more privileges because other people will feel denied that privilege, like gays, and polygamists and people that want to marry their sheep.

[Pliny]

This is true. I have read 2 lengthy biographies of Hitler. A little bit about the fall of the Soviet Union...lots about the Highland clearances and Scotland in general within the 1600s to the 1800s. What I tend to do is concentrate specifically on history that would support a current situation that has captured my interest. It tends to be a very focused course of study. There is more than enough current horror to deal with. This is my motivation to understand the laws/legislations/directions of global leaders. I feel as you do about the one world government/ruler. Most people do I think.

We should have as much autonomy over our personal lives and affairs as possible. That does mean we need to meet our own challenges in life within society and it's framework. Government's role is to ensure force and fraud is not initiated against us.

Yes, yes I do see the relevance and impact of said discussions. I tend to look at most scenarios as ones that have taken effect in 100 years or more. I do look at the current mentalities and wonder where it/they will take us in the not so far away future.

It is a dream of mine to build a political science campus...to discuss and shape the effect the you mention here. My interest does not stem from a great and worthy knowledge of politics but from the understanding of how important the quality of politicians we let loose on this world is. I would like to contribute by creating the space for such growth to happen.

Are you going to make some room in your backyard?

[Yesterday]

Nothing wrong with dreaming mate. My backyard...too small to contain my dreams or aspirations let alone anyone else's. In my early 20s I helped to create a concept to help feed the needy called 'Feedback Canada'. It did well for quite a few years. I left after the first year to pursue other things. In my late 20s/early 30s I worked on a very sustainable logging concept, this one I stayed around for a few years longer it was very interesting. Lately, for the last few years I have been working on a project that involves multiple campuses some here in Canada, Scotland and the US. I am usually only involved in developing the concept, I don't have much to do with implementing them. To include a campus of my own interest is not such a far cry from what I do for a living. Kind of fun really. Any venue that would allow for the education of politically headed individuals which made use of a curriculum geared toward the future we all need and want would be a good contribution.

I can agree with your opinion about the role of government. I too have long thought the far reaching hand of legislation creeping into the everyday lives of the average citizen far too encompassing. I find the general desire to have our politicians or a law to save us from everything disconcerting to say the least and in part some of their power. For all of us who do not want the intervention there sure is a lot of those who do. It is a hard road to backtrack to retract stupid laws and policies and I firmly believe an ounce of prevention could go along way in politics. An ounce or maybe 2 developed in think tanks geared specifically for this task. The future is mold-able and I really think the education of the people who will make far reaching decisions at this stage needs some fresh input.

How would you make a difference? Staying current and voicing an opinion is an important part of change true, but there is so much more...I am usually too shy to express myself to often. I admire the gusto with which most people here manage. I am quite happy to watch and listen.

[Pliny]

Nothing wrong with dreaming mate. My backyard...too small to contain my dreams or aspirations let alone anyone else's. In my early 20s I helped to create a concept to help feed the needy called 'Feedback Canada'. It did well for quite a few years. I left after the first year to pursue other things. In my late 20s/early 30s I worked on a very sustainable logging concept, this one I stayed around for a few years longer it was very interesting. Lately, for the last few years I have been working on a project that involves multiple campuses some here in Canada, Scotland and the US. I am usually only involved in developing the concept, I don't have much to do with implementing them. To include a campus of my own interest is not such a far cry from what I do for a living. Kind of fun really. Any venue that would allow for the education of politically headed individuals which made use of a curriculum geared toward the future we all need and want would be a good contribution.

I can agree with your opinion about the role of government. I too have long thought the far reaching hand of legislation creeping into the everyday lives of the average citizen far too encompassing. I find the general desire to have our politicians or a law to save us from everything disconcerting to say the least and in part some of their power. For all of us who do not want the intervention there sure is a lot of those who do. It is a hard road to backtrack to retract stupid laws and policies and I firmly believe an ounce of prevention could go along way in politics. An ounce or maybe 2 developed in think tanks geared specifically for this task. The future is mold-able and I really think the education of the people who will make far reaching decisions at this stage needs some fresh input.

How would you make a difference? Staying current and voicing an opinion is an important part of change true, but there is so much more...I am usually too shy to express myself to often. I admire the gusto with which most people here manage. I am quite happy to watch and listen.

You are a rare individual. One that can accomplish things and doesn't just dream about accomplishing things. I suppose somewhat of an artist.

How did you get here on MLW?

[Yesterday]

I don't have the discipline to be an artist but being creative does help ebb my emotional tide when dealing with harshness of any kind. Just a big hearted person. I've been really enjoying that book I linked. I am amazed at the parallels between then and now.

There is a few things I would like to share out of it so likely tonight or tomorrow I'll post some excerpts from it and show some of the parallels. It is going to be more than 40 degrees with high humidity here today and I tend to wither in this weather.

Like for instance just off the top off my head....in the 1600s the government in England used all the coinage to do business outside their country themselves and had the bank print paper notes for the constituents to use and so the trouble began....could of started earlier, probably did but this is my earliest reference to date of the problems with the price of gold and the inflation of paper notes. Interesting to note the government kept running out of gold and taking loans from the bank to cover their costs then giving the bank the opportunity to print those notes to the same amount. Even without fractional reserve they had the same problems as us. Interesting to note that the interest/discount was 20% back then. Wow! I wonder what the interest now is when added up across the fractional board? More later with references too.

They zirped back then and I want show what they did and how it worked. This book explains it well. I am sad to say though that book begins with a hefty theory as to why capital is debt and equals profit and how derivatives are wonderful. The intricacies of defining currency/money.

As for current issues that are forefront and center on my mind...how about Poland? The plane crash still sends shivers down my spine. Now they are accepting without trepidation this missile base the US wants to build there. I suppose they think the US can save them from Russia? Good luck. If the US struck out at Russia the world would annihilate the US, the world is so tired of the US. They had better be being honest about their focus on Iran, there is not a great history of honesty unfortunately. I'm looking for Harper's opinion about this when I find a good article I'll post it. I prefer trade sanctions and such to deal with countries like Iran.

I had read awhile ago that in 2008 (?) China had put trade sanctions into effect regarding the US and it told of how US ships were having problems all over the globe at getting into port. I have not substantiated this but I did file away for future reference a curiosity about how effective trade sanctions really are. After I get the big picture about Zirp this could be the next venue of interest and exploration.

I ended up here on MLF because I realized how out of touch and behind I was politically when I thought first about a political science campus. I don't need to be a professor to build the concept but I definitely needed to take a good look outside my window if you get my drift. So, well, here I am and I want to say thanks to everyone here even the grumpy ones. You had mentioned the importance of debate and once again I agree and find this place a wealth of understanding of the world from the public point of view as opposed to just the various medias.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Yesterday

[Pliny]

I don't have the discipline to be an artist but being creative does help ebb my emotional tide when dealing with harshness of any kind. Just a big hearted person. I've been really enjoying that book I linked. I am amazed at the parallels between then and now.

There is a few things I would like to share out of it so likely tonight or tomorrow I'll post some excerpts from it and show some of the parallels. It is going to be more than 40 degrees with high humidity here today and I tend to wither in this weather.

Like for instance just off the top off my head....in the 1600s the government in England used all the coinage to do business outside their country themselves and had the bank print paper notes for the constituents to use and so the trouble began....could of started earlier, probably did but this is my earliest reference to date of the problems with the price of gold and the inflation of paper notes.

Sounds like Bretton-Woods, doesn't it?

Interesting to note the government kept running out of gold and taking loans from the bank to cover their costs then giving the bank the opportunity to print those notes to the same amount. Even without fractional reserve they had the same problems as us.

What do you mean without fractional reserve? There was fractional reserve banking then. England didn't have a central bank until, I think it was 1689 when the Bank of England was established.

Interesting to note that the interest/discount was 20% back then. Wow! I wonder what the interest now is when added up across the fractional board? More later with references too.

They zirped back then and I want show what they did and how it worked. This book explains it well. I am sad to say though that book begins with a hefty theory as to why capital is debt and equals profit and how derivatives are wonderful. The intricacies of defining currency/money.

Capital is debt? Well, fiat paper currencies are indeed debt instruments. Real money is not a debt and fulfills the contractual obligations of a trade where both benefit. Using fiat currencies is accepting a debt as it is pretty much worthless and one has to trust he will be able to trade it for something of value that he wants.

The person who wrote that must be a financial advisor? Derivatives offer another financial instrument, a fairly risky one, that can be traded. Someone will make a buck, someone will lose a buck.

As for current issues that are forefront and center on my mind...how about Poland? The plane crash still sends shivers down my spine. Now they are accepting without trepidation this missile base the US wants to build there. I suppose they think the US can save them from Russia? Good luck. If the US struck out at Russia the world would annihilate the US, the world is so tired of the US. They had better be being honest about their focus on Iran, there is not a great history of honesty unfortunately. I'm looking for Harper's opinion about this when I find a good article I'll post it. I prefer trade sanctions and such to deal with countries like Iran.

I had read awhile ago that in 2008 (?) China had put trade sanctions into effect regarding the US and it told of how US ships were having problems all over the globe at getting into port. I have not substantiated this but I did file away for future reference a curiosity about how effective trade sanctions really are. After I get the big picture about Zirp this could be the next venue of interest and exploration.

Have you heard of Lew Rockwell? Excellent writer and Libertarian.

He has a website. Lew Rockwell.com.

With all the mistakes the US government has made, and it is the US government that makes the mistakes, I think the American society, with it's liberty and productivity, is still envied around the world.

Liberals are pretty negative about the US in general and like to point out all the negatives about it. Most of that negativity is the fault of government foriegn policy but socially America tolerates some of the negatives complained about in order to keep their own individual freedom.

I ended up here on MLF because I realized how out of touch and behind I was politically when I thought first about a political science campus. I don't need to be a professor to build the concept but I definitely needed to take a good look outside my window if you get my drift. So, well, here I am and I want to say thanks to everyone here even the grumpy ones. You had mentioned the importance of debate and once again I agree and find this place a wealth of understanding of the world from the public point of view as opposed to just the various medias.

I see.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Pliny

[Yesterday]

Hi, I had wondered really about whether or not fractional reserve was happening then. According to this book and my understanding of fractional reserve, which is sketchy at best hence the desire for conversation so I can learn, I had understood it to mean that notes had a set value for its counterpart in gold and the amounts of notes for offer from the bank was related to the amount of gold that was lent to the government at the time. There were other bank instruments yes based on bank reserves (assets?) that also paved the way for circulating medium that was regarded according to this book as acceptable forms of currency but I was just referring to the notes at that particular time, a very small window to the whole. Got to start somewhere right?

Would you explain what you mean by fractional reserve being used then?

I know what you mean I think by the question mark at the end of the capital statement...I'll post the corresponding paragraph. I am in no means endorsing or even fully understanding yet what this guy trying to accomplish with his book but he does go to a lot of trouble to redefine the view of circulating medium and capital. For me it is a wealth of opinion and knowledge.

I'll look up Lew Rockwell, do I sound like a libertarian? I haven't defined myself yet, the quiz posted here somewhere puts me dead center left on the libertarian bottom of the graph.

I'm not overly negative about the US, more worried than anything regarding them financially at any rate. To be honest, it is intrigue and interest that spur on my focus where the US is concerned. I am a little sick to death about the war mongering though but they are by far not the biggest concern on this front.

What do you see when you consider my motivations for joining MLF and what were yours?

[bush_cheney2004]

.....As for current issues that are forefront and center on my mind...how about Poland? The plane crash still sends shivers down my spine. Now they are accepting without trepidation this missile base the US wants to build there. I suppose they think the US can save them from Russia? Good luck. If the US struck out at Russia the world would annihilate the US, the world is so tired of the US.

Is this just a kneejerk opinion or do you have some basis in fact for your assessment of US-Poland relations? The US already saved them from "Russia"....see Cold War. Pershing II's and GLCMs (missiles) helped to break the stalemate back in the 80's. The "world" is so tired of the US that your own nation (Canada) is fighting alongside Americans in Afghanistan.

They had better be being honest about their focus on Iran, there is not a great history of honesty unfortunately. I'm looking for Harper's opinion about this when I find a good article I'll post it. I prefer trade sanctions and such to deal with countries like Iran.

They have been very honest about the focus on Iran. As has been the UK, France, and other allies. AS for trade sanctions, still waiting for Canada to impose them on the United States!

[Yesterday]

Is this just a kneejerk opinion or do you have some basis in fact for your assessment of US-Poland relations? The US already saved them from "Russia"....see Cold War. Pershing II's and GLCMs (missiles) helped to break the stalemate back in the 80's. The "world" is so tired of the US that your own nation (Canada) is fighting alongside Americans in Afghanistan.

They have been very honest about the focus on Iran. As has been the UK, France, and other allies. AS for trade sanctions, still waiting for Canada to impose them on the United States!

Hi, I wouldn't say knee jerk opinion. The articles regarding this have been on my msn page for a few days. Do you read the news from your internet? As for being concerned about this, I think it is a valid concern. Russia and the US say this is a separate issue and are getting along on other issues and this shouldn't interfere with them (whatever those are) but Russia does say it will look at this a possible act of aggression. Not good.

There are a lot of people who are just tired of being at war. Go to the polish forum boards and see what the Polish people think and feel about this. I did. They are a sad people lately.

I would not want to see trade sanctions against the US unless deserved, I don't know if China actually did a few years ago but it is a story floating around conspiracy boards and it would of been over this so-called lien China has over the US.

By the way, as far as my feeling for the US. Of course I am a little angry about the stock/bank fraud rampant there, anyone who has lost money and even some who didn't have sore feelings for the US for letting this happen and being so implicit in it. Do I think the US is awful because of this, no. Am I tired of wondering who is going is going to bomb the US and as a result rearrange my life? YES! And let me be specific, it would not be the US itself or the general public themselves, my feelings are directed at the US government past and present. I can also get a good head of steam over the Patriot Act and more indecencies the US government is trying to put over on its people. This makes me very angry and I must also say that it makes me not want to live there. I think it very important that there is a big difference between the US potential for greatness and the potential of its government. Its potential lies in its people, they are not the source of my being upset with the US.

I am sad about it, Bush et al really did a number on the US people and her sovereignty, they should all go to jail forever.

With Obama, I kind of sit on the fence. There is no way to over-estimate the mess the man got handed when he took the seat. There are some things he has done that are just way out to lunch and I just have to wonder. Like not removing the Patriot Act. I don't know how knowledgeable you are of the global settlements going on around the world. Well, Obama is stalling for some reason, this is my personal experience, as I've mentioned before my involvement with CMKM. The mess down there is huge!

I feel sorry for the mess he inherited. I still have hope, not necessarily faith, that he will be effective at righting the wrong and carrying the US forward.

US people have cause for concern over the stimulus money he is spending and have huge concerns about this debt repayment. I don't blame them. Hence my interest in ZIRP, I would like to be able to feel some sort of confidence for the US people and I am hoping to find good news as I learn what zirping really means. Read my next post.... The US people have been through so much!!!! Too much!!!!!

Edited July 6, 2010 by Yesterday