Mosque going up in NYC building

[DogOnPorch]

Alan Craig (CPA Party) meets with with Tablighi Jamaat sponsored London Mosque builders...also a 'moderate' project.

As you might know, this mosque will now not be built due to the ties Tablighi Jamaat has with terrorism.

[Machjo]

I like this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0&feature=player_embedded

I realize that many here who oppose the Ground Zero Mosque oppose it on moral grounds but do not want to legally prohibit its construction. That doesn't change the fact that many among the opponents of the mosque are in fact trying to legally prohibit its construction. And so just as the Muslims of NYC supposedly need to be sensitive to the fact that the 911 terrorists called themselves Muslim, certainly in the same vein those who oppose the ground zero Islamic centre need to likewise be sensitive to the fact that many others among their ranks are opposed to freedom of religion for Muslims. If we're going to hold Muslims responsible for the actions of other Muslims, then we also need to hold opponents of the Ground Zero centre responsible for the actions of other opponents who actively try to place legal obstacles and likewise those who have bombed mosques and beating Muslims and have committed other acts of terrorism against Muslims.

And let's consider too how many US servicemen hae given their lives to fight for freedom for Iraqis, most of whom are Muslim, only to come home and see Americans fighting to remove freedom from their brethren in America.

[dre]

Exactly. I should be supporting this? Women already fought for equal rights in my country. I don't care to have a fanatical bunch of religious freaks set me back further than where we started from.

I love how easily so many of the men on this forum dismiss, and actually defend, the treatment of women in the name of Islam.

As I've pointed out several times, freedom of religion doesn't mean the freedom to do whatever religious people like. If something is against the law, such as inequality forced on women, it's against the law; and forcing it under the guise of "freedom of religion" could in effect wipe out/supersede all of our laws according to that PC mentality. No one would condone a Muslim marrying a ten year old in Canada/the States under the "freedom of religion" clause "because it's against the law," so it boggles the mind how they can defend inequality of women.

You guys missed the boat. This has been going on for years and years... why the sudden outrage over it now?

If something is against the law, such as inequality forced on women, it's against the law;

Call the police! Tell em that women are treated as second class citizens in both Christianity, and Islam... then listen to them laugh at you.

[dre]

So I can only assume that by Canada's increased trade with China, Canadians are a big fan of communism/oppression.

What a ludicrous notion; that by engaging in trade with a country, buying their products, it's synonymous with "investing" in their nation and whatever goes on in their nation.

Likewise Canadians must be HUGE fans of the United States, and the war in Iraq, for example, given the fact that we're your biggest trade partner.

What a ludicrous notion; that by engaging in trade with a country, buying their products, it's synonymous with "investing" in their nation and whatever goes on in their nation.

Thats not a ludicrous notion. Thats the notion behind trade embargos and sanctions. Its the reason the US doesnt trade with Cuba, or Iran. When you trade with a country you ARE financially supporting what goes on there.

[Machjo]

Another good video on the subject:

I wonder, when we build the memorial to the victims of 9/11 on Ground Zero, I guess we'd better make sure the names of any of the Muslim victims, be they first responders, occupants of the buildings, passengers on the planes, etc., not be mentioned on any list of names of the victims, lest if offend the family members of the victims of 9/11.

In fact, just to be safe, we should assume that any Muslim on the plane, be it a man, woman or child, was part of the plot, and any Muslim in the buildings was there to try to distract people while the planes were approaching, and any Muslim first responder was there to try to thwart the efforts of other first responders.

Heck, we could even go further and say that any Muslim on that plane had a greater responsibility than any other passenger to charge the terrorists and stop them because they happened to have the same religion. After all, why should the buffed up martial art expert be responsible to charge the terrorists in the cockpit while a pregnant Muslim woman and her infant child on her lad traveling alone with her happen to share the same religion. Why didn't she put the infant aside and storm into the cockpit to fight those Muslims? Heck, she could have used her belly as a shield.

Damned Muslims. Hell will freeze over before I ever show my appreciation for the Muslim first responders who tried to save lives on 9/11. They don't deserve to be remembered, and their families should be cast away from Ground Zero. Besides, we have enough Christian Churches there, no? What, not good enough for those Muslims?

[DogOnPorch]

I like this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0&feature=player_embedded

I realize that many here who oppose the Ground Zero Mosque oppose it on moral grounds but do not want to legally prohibit its construction. That doesn't change the fact that many among the opponents of the mosque are in fact trying to legally prohibit its construction. And so just as the Muslims of NYC supposedly need to be sensitive to the fact that the 911 terrorists called themselves Muslim, certainly in the same vein those who oppose the ground zero Islamic centre need to likewise be sensitive to the fact that many others among their ranks are opposed to freedom of religion for Muslims. If we're going to hold Muslims responsible for the actions of other Muslims, then we also need to hold opponents of the Ground Zero centre responsible for the actions of other opponents who actively try to place legal obstacles and likewise those who have bombed mosques and beating Muslims and have committed other acts of terrorism against Muslims.

And let's consider too how many US servicemen hae given their lives to fight for freedom for Iraqis, most of whom are Muslim, only to come home and see Americans fighting to remove freedom from their brethren in America.

Mr Olbermann is wishing for the best. He knows no more about what will happen inside this mosq...errr...community outr...errr...basketball court...than you or I. But for a sportscaster, he does set out his incensed political opinion as well as any other talking-head. I recall similar incensed outrage from the British talking-heads re: the London Olympic mosque...community outreach centre...basketball court. Well, they're looking a tad silly now...

Atheist manifesto...lol. That was the best line.

[DogOnPorch]

You guys missed the boat. This has been going on for years and years... why the sudden outrage over it now?

Call the police! Tell em that women are treated as second class citizens in both Christianity, and Islam... then listen to them laugh at you.

This is why I'm 99% sure you're a woman-less individual. Women are just an abstract concept to you.

[dre]

Another good video on the subject:

I wonder, when we build the memorial to the victims of 9/11 on Ground Zero, I guess we'd better make sure the names of any of the Muslim victims, be they first responders, occupants of the buildings, passengers on the planes, etc., not be mentioned on any list of names of the victims, lest if offend the family members of the victims of 9/11.

In fact, just to be safe, we should assume that any Muslim on the plane, be it a man, woman or child, was part of the plot, and any Muslim in the buildings was there to try to distract people while the planes were approaching, and any Muslim first responder was there to try to thwart the efforts of other first responders.

Heck, we could even go further and say that any Muslim on that plane had a greater responsibility than any other passenger to charge the terrorists and stop them because they happened to have the same religion. After all, why should the buffed up martial art expert be responsible to charge the terrorists in the cockpit while a pregnant Muslim woman and her infant child on her lad traveling alone with her happen to share the same religion. Why didn't she put the infant aside and storm into the cockpit to fight those Muslims? Heck, she could have used her belly as a shield.

Damned Muslims. Hell will freeze over before I ever show my appreciation for the Muslim first responders who tried to save lives on 9/11. They don't deserve to be remembered, and their families should be cast away from Ground Zero. Besides, we have enough Christian Churches there, no? What, not good enough for those Muslims?

He definately does a good job at pointing out how irrational the various objections to this site are.

Its been a place of muslim prayer since before the world trade center was even built and its not even at gound zero.

[DogOnPorch]

He definately does a good job at pointing out how irrational the various objections to this site are.

Its been a place of muslim prayer since before the world trade center was even built and its not even at gound zero.

That's the Warren street mosque. The Burlington Coat Factory building has not been a mosque since 1970.

[Guest American Woman]

I think it's a really good sign that Hamas has put its support behind this mosque; I'm sure it's because of their undying belief that it will be a moderate mosque, with the purpose of building bridges between the Muslim world and the rest of the world. Because that's so important to Hamas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBlVcHJgZjA&feature=related

Graduation Ceremony at the Islamic Association in Gaza on Hamas TV

[dre]

This is why I'm 99% sure you're a woman-less individual. Women are just an abstract concept to you.

Yeah... an abstract concept . Clearly by pointing out your mispaced, fake, and moronic outrage means Im not married and women are just a concept. Youre completely wrong BTW but nothing new there.

[dre]

I think it's a really good sign that Hamas has put its support behind this mosque; I'm sure it's because of their undying belief that it will be a moderate mosque, with the purpose of building bridges between the Muslim world and the rest of the world. Because that's so important to Hamas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBlVcHJgZjA&feature=related

Graduation Ceremony at the Islamic Association in Gaza on Hamas TV

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah... an abstract concept . Clearly by pointing out your mispaced, fake, and moronic outrage means Im not married and women are just a concept. Youre completely wrong BTW but nothing new there.

Women are abstract concepts to you. Like a porno actress... So if you are married, I'd sure hate to be her.

[dre]

Women are abstract concepts to you. Like a porno actress... So if you are married, I'd sure hate to be her.

This is just more of your typical idiotic trolling... Like Im supposed to care what some Islamophic bigot says about my wife.

[herbertmarx2]

This is just more of your typical idiotic trolling... Like Im supposed to care what some Islamophic bigot says about my wife.

...

[Machjo]

Here's a good story:

http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm

"Thousands of innocent lives were lost on September 11, 2001, and our hearts and prayers go out to their families and loved ones. For several hundred of the victims of 9/11, grief and sorrow has been compounded by constant suspicion, bias, hatred, and attacks on the faith they hold dear.

Imagine being the family of Salman Hamdani. The 23-year-old New York City police cadet was a part-time ambulance driver, incoming medical student, and devout Muslim. When he disappeared on September 11, law enforcement officials came to his family, seeking him for questioning in relation to the terrorist attacks. They allegedly believed he was somehow involved. His whereabouts were undetermined for over six months, until his remains were finally identified. He was found near the North Tower, with his EMT medical bag beside him, presumably doing everything he could to help those in need. His family could finally rest, knowing that he died the hero they always knew him to be.

Or imagine being Baraheen Ashrafi, nine months pregnant with her second child. Her husband, Mohammad Chowdhury, was a waiter at Windows of the World restaurant, on the top floors of Tower One. The morning of September 11, they prayed salaat-l-fajr (the pre-dawn prayer) together, and he went off to work. She never saw him again. Their son, Farqad, was born 48 hours after the attacks -- one of the first 9/11 orphans to be born. In an interview with CTV Canada, she relates that in the months to follow, she mourned for her husband and endured the hostility of some ignorant people around her. "When they saw me ... I'm wearing a scarf. There is a hate look."

Or consider Rahma Salie, a passenger on American Airlines #11 that crashed into the North Tower. Rahma, a Muslim of Sri Lankan origin, was traveling with her husband Michael (a convert to Islam) to attend a friend's wedding in California. Rahma was 7 months pregnant with their first child. According to the Independent UK (October 11, 2001), Rahma's name was initially put on an FBI watch list, because her "Muslim-sounding" name was on the passenger manifest, and her travel patterns were similar to those of the hijackers (she was a computer consultant living in Boston). Although her name was eventually removed from the list, several of her family members were barred from taking flights to her memorial service. Her mother, Haleema, said, "I would like everyone to know that she was a Muslim, she is a Muslim and we are victims too, of this tragic incident.”"

I'm glad to see that the authorities were not infiltrated by all those sissy liberal bleeding-hearts.

It's nice to see we weren't fooled by Mr. Hamdani's police work and medical studies. We did the right thing to suspect him, and should continue to do so. I'm sure he was behind the plots. He must have been.

It' good to see that people are letting Mrs. Ashrafi know what they think of her. We should keep up the good work and keep giving that look to her to make sure she knows we associate the murder of her husband with her faith and show we don't appreciate any expression of her faith anywhere near where her husband died.

And I'm glad we didn't take risks with the family of Mrs. Salie when they wanted to board planes to go to her funeral. Clearly they could have taken advantage of her death to sneak more explosives on board.

[Guest American Woman]

Now I know why Hamas has put in it's support for this Mosque. It's because Imam Rauf has been working on a way to "Americanize Islam." I'm sure that's going to do a lot to endear the United States to the Muslim world.

[Machjo]

Now I know why Hamas has put in it's support for this Mosque. It's because Imam Rauf has been working on a way to "Americanize Islam." I'm sure that's going to do a lot to endear the United States to the Muslim world.

I don't think he's trying to 'Americanize' Islam, but rather to simply encourage Muslims to actually live up to the standards of their religion and not fly planes into buildings. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the people who flew the planes into the buildings called themselves Muslim and so we ought to continue to make it clear that we don't welcome Muslims around Ground Zero (except maybe the Muslim police officer who was among the first responders; and even he was a suspect until they'd found his body :angry: ). If they want to pray for their loved ones, they can do it elsewhere too.

[dre]

I don't think he's trying to 'Americanize' Islam, but rather to simply encourage Muslims to actually live up to the standards of their religion and not fly planes into buildings. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the people who flew the planes into the buildings called themselves Muslim and so we ought to continue to make it clear that we don't welcome Muslims around Ground Zero (except maybe the Muslim police officer who was among the first responders; and even he was a suspect until they'd found his body :angry: ). If they want to pray for their loved ones, they can do it elsewhere too.

She actually thinks that Hamas endorsing this mosque helps her arugment...

[punked]

The Saudi's sell oil to everyone around the world. Not just America. And America actually buys a lot more oil from Canada and Mexico than it does from Saudi Arabia. Get your facts straight.

Actually the US imports just as much oil from Mexico as it does Saudi Arabia. You clearly again know nothing.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't think he's trying to 'Americanize' Islam, but rather to simply encourage Muslims to actually live up to the standards of their religion and not fly planes into buildings. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the people who flew the planes into the buildings called themselves Muslim and so we ought to continue to make it clear that we don't welcome Muslims around Ground Zero (except maybe the Muslim police officer who was among the first responders; and even he was a suspect until they'd found his body :angry: ). If they want to pray for their loved ones, they can do it elsewhere too.

Since he's the one who said he was working on a way to Americanize Islam, I think what he thinks means more than what you think. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the rest of your post is totally moronic.

In closing, I'd tell you to have a great day, but they say ignorance is bliss, so I'm sure your day will be downright blissful.

[Machjo]

Since he's the one who said he was working on a way to Americanize Islam, I think what he thinks means more than what you think. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the rest of your post is totally moronic.

In closing, I'd tell you to have a great day, but they say ignorance is bliss, so I'm sure your day will be downright blissful.

I must be ignorant if I can't see the commonality between the men who flew the planes into the buildings and the Muslim victims and especially the Muslim first responders.

But I'll trust your wisdom that we must keep all positive signs of Is;am away from Ground Zero.

[dre]

Since he's the one who said he was working on a way to Americanize Islam, I think what he thinks means more than what you think. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the rest of your post is totally moronic.

In closing, I'd tell you to have a great day, but they say ignorance is bliss, so I'm sure your day will be downright blissful.

If ignorance really is bliss, you must go through about 50 pairs of underwear a day.

[Machjo]

If ignorance really is bliss, you must go through about 50 pairs of underwear a day.

Now that's libido.

[Guest American Woman]

I must be ignorant if I can't see the commonality between the men who flew the planes into the buildings and the Muslim victims and especially the Muslim first responders.

But I'll trust your wisdom that we must keep all positive signs of Is;am away from Ground Zero.

Yes, because that so accurately portrays "my wisdom." Except for the fact that I've neither said nor think any such thing. But don't let that stop you from claiming that I did. We wouldn't want the truth to interfere with your life in any way. A life which obviously is virtually overflowing with bliss.