Muslim education in Britain

[JerrySeinfeld]

Now I could go on about the teacher who was sacked for teaching young Muslim girls to swim (the majority Muslim parents pressured his superiors to do so) but we'll leave that for another day.

On another thread I talked about the sneaky ability of a radical to dress up in drag as a "tolerant" "Moderate" Muslim for the right audience.

I was asked for examples. The first example I gave was Revolution Muslim, a website which put a price on the heads of the South Park creators, then "denounced" violence.

"We will use your democracy to destroy your democracy" - Omar Bikram Mohammed, Muslim Cleric

What I think a lot of Muslim apologists like to do is make blanket statements without doing their research. Example: "the vast majority of Muslims are moderates".

But if you look deeper, the population of immigrant Muslims in host nations is becoming more radicalized than their parents, not more westernized. Even if you look at the graduating class of the Unibversity of Cairo in the 1970s - none of the women wore burqas or hijabs. But today's graduating class pictures show most of the women wearing them. Thanks to Saudi money, a Wahhabist imperialism is taking place worldwide, resulting in an ever mor radicalizing of a once-moderate religion.

Have a look at the attached video. It illustrates both of my points, that the religion is becoming ever more radicalized over time, and if you particularly look at the 4:00 minute mark till the end, a sneaky woman who is clearly lying to put on a "moderate" face for a very radical underbelly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XcSQJSOab8&NR=1

[Michael Hardner]

Now I could go on ...

... you could go on, and you did.

A whole fistful of assertions, and a single YouTube link that doesn't add up to what is being asserted.

The assertion is that a Muslim school teacher revealed that Arabic textbooks said that other religions are worthless and that others are going to hell. ( Pretty much what I was taught in Catholic School, BTW. ) They also refer to the other religions derisively as "Christians and Pigs".

The school claims the books are not being taught, and that they teach tolerance but the investigation continues. I'm thankful that a Muslim teacher was brave enough to come forward and initiate the investigation.

And does a bad snippet from a textbook in a school in England mean we're "one step close to Sharia law" ? No.

[JerrySeinfeld]

... you could go on, and you did.

A whole fistful of assertions, and a single YouTube link that doesn't add up to what is being asserted.

The assertion is that a Muslim school teacher revealed that Arabic textbooks said that other religions are worthless and that others are going to hell. ( Pretty much what I was taught in Catholic School, BTW. ) They also refer to the other religions derisively as "Christians and Pigs".

The school claims the books are not being taught, and that they teach tolerance but the investigation continues. I'm thankful that a Muslim teacher was brave enough to come forward and initiate the investigation.

And does a bad snippet from a textbook in a school in England mean we're "one step close to Sharia law" ? No.

Go to 2:48 for two more examples of "condemning violence" and "moderate" muslims who are clearly lying

Edited April 25, 2010 by JerrySeinfeld

[Michael Hardner]

Go to 2:48 for two more examples of "condemning violence" and "moderate" muslims who are clearly lying

If you don't understand that these individual cases you find don't amount to evidence, then you really never will.

As I said, this about you not liking Muslims as far as I can see. In any other situation, you would have seen things more objectively.

[JerrySeinfeld]

If you don't understand that these individual cases you find don't amount to evidence, then you really never will.

As I said, this about you not liking Muslims as far as I can see. In any other situation, you would have seen things more objectively.

In case you haven't been paying attention, it's not about anyone not liking Muslims. Rather it's about Muslims not liking you.

[Michael Hardner]

In case you haven't been paying attention, it's not about anyone not liking Muslims. Rather it's about Muslims not liking you.

The Muslims that I know like me fine. Please don't get involved.

[JerrySeinfeld]

The Muslims that I know like me fine. Please don't get involved.

It doesn't mean they don't consider you inferior.

The Muslims I know like me fine too. And from time to time they make offhanded remarks like "white is the lowest common denominator", or if I order pork make comments that Im eating swine, or "brown is the future, white is the past"...all supposedly in jest, yet if uttered by a white christian would be considered by many of the tolerance police on this board as racist.

You need to at least acquaint yourself with the possibility that your spoonfed ultra tolerance platitudes aren't entirely accurate, and that it's not just white people capable of supremicist attitudes. And that it is possible, perhaos even likely, that other groups are as guilty or more guilty of these attitudes than are white people in today's Canada.

Edited April 25, 2010 by JerrySeinfeld

[Michael Hardner]

It doesn't mean they don't consider you inferior.

The Muslims I know like me fine too. And from time to time they make offhanded remarks like "white is the lowest common denominator", or if I order pork make comments that Im eating swine, or "brown is the future, white is the past"...all supposedly in jest, yet if uttered by a white christian would be considered by many of the tolerance police on this board as racist.

You need to at least acquaint yourself with the possibility that your spoonfed ultra tolerance platitudes aren't entirely accurate, and that it's not just white people capable of supremicist attitudes. And that it is possible, perhaos even likely, that other groups are as guilty or more guilty of these attitudes than are white people in today's Canada.

They can think what they like. Good Catholic friends I know also think I'm going to hell.

Spoonfed ? My philosophies on different peoples come from first principles. I know that other people are capable of racism, but I don't judge people based on the group they're from.

[JerrySeinfeld]

They can think what they like. Good Catholic friends I know also think I'm going to hell.

Spoonfed ? My philosophies on different peoples come from first principles. I know that other people are capable of racism, but I don't judge people based on the group they're from.

WHich brings us back to the Muslim school in Britain, teaching it's pupils that Jews are monkeys and Christians are pigs.

What part of "tolerance" suggests that you think this is an ok practice?

[Michael Hardner]

What part of "tolerance" suggests that you think this is an ok practice?

Didn't I say that I was thankful that there's an investigation ?

[Sir Bandelot]

It doesn't mean they don't consider you inferior.

The Muslims I know like me fine too. And from time to time they make offhanded remarks like "white is the lowest common denominator", or if I order pork make comments that Im eating swine, or "brown is the future, white is the past"...all supposedly in jest

Considering your attitude here which seems to be one of distrusting or fearing any muslim, even all muslims, I find it hard to believe they like you at all. I'm sure what comes around goes around.

[CANADIEN]

It doesn't mean they don't consider you inferior.

The Muslims I know like me fine too. And from time to time they make offhanded remarks like "white is the lowest common denominator", or if I order pork make comments that Im eating swine, or "brown is the future, white is the past"...all supposedly in jest, yet if uttered by a white christian would be considered by many of the tolerance police on this board as racist.

Interesting. None of the Muslims I know have ever said that to me.

You need to at least acquaint yourself with the possibility that your spoonfed ultra tolerance platitudes aren't entirely accurate, and that it's not just white people capable of supremicist attitudes. And that it is possible, perhaos even likely, that other groups are as guilty or more guilty of these attitudes than are white people in today's Canada.

Don't worry. I know full feel well that hatred, racism and intolerance come in all colours, and all religious disguises. But don't expect people not to see your fallacy - that all Muslims are by definition hateful and intolerant.

[CANADIEN]

WHich brings us back to the Muslim school in Britain, teaching it's pupils that Jews are monkeys and Christians are pigs.

What part of "tolerance" suggests that you think this is an ok practice?

And who here has suggested it was OK?

Nobody, for one simply reason. Nobody here thinks it is OK.

On the other hand, there was no lack of people willing to give the reins of the Canadian Alliance to someone who had taught in a Canadian school where the curriculum included gems like "The Jews are the children of the Devil, true or false?" and the belief that democracy was against God's law.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Don't worry. I know full feel well that hatred, racism and intolerance come in all colours, and all religious disguises. But don't expect people not to see your fallacy - that all Muslims are by definition hateful and intolerant.

This is simply a straw man. No where have I said "all Muslims are by definition hateful and intolerant"

Please show me where I have said this?

I am simply providing a real world example of what is happening inside a Muslim school in the west.

Is this a cause for concern for you? If not, why not?

Edited April 26, 2010 by JerrySeinfeld

[wyly]

WHich brings us back to the Muslim school in Britain, teaching it's pupils that Jews are monkeys and Christians are pigs.

What part of "tolerance" suggests that you think this is an ok practice?

and many Jews refer to non jews disparagingly as Goy and arabs as animals, do all jews believe that? no...every nationality, ethnic group and religious sect group has it's wing nuts who believe they are superior to all others, we have a number of canadians on this forum who believe that as well... Edited April 26, 2010 by wyly

[CANADIEN]

This is simply a straw man. No where have I said "all Muslims are by definition hateful and intolerant"

Please show me where I have said this?

I am simply providing a real world example of what is happening inside a Muslim school in the west.

Is this a cause for concern for you? If not, why not?

Nice try.

You are not just "providing an example". Nobody but the willingly blind can ignore the tone of your postings.

BTW. Nice trying to pretend I did not say clearly that no, schools that teach that some human beings are monkeys and dofs are not OK.

Now, your turn... Are schools that teach that democracy is wrong and Jes are the children of the Devil OK? Shouldn't it be of concern to you that someone who have taught in such a school was at one point the leader of the Opposition in the House of Commons and is now a Minister in the federal government? And if not, why?

Edited April 26, 2010 by CANADIEN

[wyly]

double post

Edited April 26, 2010 by wyly

[Michael Hardner]

This is simply a straw man. No where have I said "all Muslims are by definition hateful and intolerant"

Please show me where I have said this?

I am simply providing a real world example of what is happening inside a Muslim school in the west.

Is this a cause for concern for you? If not, why not?

You don't believe in moderates, though...

"What's the Deal with Moderate Muslims ?" says Jerry.

I won't believe in the concept of "Moderate" Muslims until they work hard to eradicate the militants from the religion.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Eurabia Alert: "Teacher attacked after al-Qaeda comments," from AFP, March 9 (thanks to Pamela):

Lyon, France - A 15-year-old French schoolboy sprayed a teacher with teargas after she described al-Qaeda as a "terrorist group", she told reporters on Tuesday as prosecutors began their investigation.

"I had just explained that the attacks on September 11, 2001 were carried out by the terrorist organisation al-Qaeda, as is written in the text book," said the history teacher, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"He stood up and declared that al-Qaeda is not terrorist and that neither is the Taliban," she said, adding that the boy had then pulled out a spray can and doused her and a teaching assistant with teargas.

Neither victim was seriously hurt....

Oh, well, then, the kid must be a moderate.

and a Jewish Teacher in France:

Around 2002 she began to encounter explicitly anti-Semitic speech from Muslim students: “Does someone smell a Jew? It stinks here.” “You are not human, you are a Jew.” Had Anglo-Saxon skinheads essayed such jests, Oliver Kamm’s warriors of secular pluralism would have crushed them like bugs. But when the teacher went to the principal, and the school board, and the local “hate-crimes unit,” they all looked the other way and advised her that it would be easier if she retired. Sixty out of 75 French teachers at the school opted to leave: A couple were Jewish, a few more practicing Catholics, and most of the rest were the liberal secularists on whom Oliver Kamm’s defense of the West rests. The francophone children withdrew, too. And now the principal and most of the students and faculty are Muslim.

Keep those eyes shut, Michael. Feels better that way, doesn't it? All warm and fuzzy and ...completely at odds with reality

[BCMan]

You implied that MAJORITY of the Muslims in the west are radical in your view, look at your first and second post.

Again,if you are concerned about what goes on in religious schools in the west, you have to include the issue of abuse in catholic schools and zionist teachings in Jewish schools. Otherwise, your argument fails. (I dont want to digg Youtube and Google for videos).

It seems to be me that you haven't researched this topic well enough to raise such concern.

This is simply a straw man. No where have I said "all Muslims are by definition hateful and intolerant"

Please show me where I have said this?

I am simply providing a real world example of what is happening inside a Muslim school in the west.

Is this a cause for concern for you? If not, why not?

[Michael Hardner]

Keep those eyes shut, Michael. Feels better that way, doesn't it? All warm and fuzzy and ...completely at odds with reality

The classic Jerry move: change the topic when the bluff is called... ah well...

[bloodyminded]

Interesting. None of the Muslims I know have ever said that to me.

That's because it's a fiction. People very rarely behave in such a rude manner, even when they do disagree. And (gasp!) Muslims are like everybody else in this regard.

Personal anecdotes are rarely (though occasionally) useful; at any rate, we have no need to take them at face value when they're wholly politicized.

Edited April 28, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Bob]

and many Jews refer to non jews disparagingly as Goy and arabs as animals, do all jews believe that? no...every nationality, ethnic group and religious sect group has it's wing nuts who believe they are superior to all others, we have a number of canadians on this forum who believe that as well...

For the purpose of clarification, the term "goy" is not inherently disparaging. It depends on the tone or context within which it is said. The term is Yiddish and simply means "nation", so "goyim" (plural form of goy) refers to "the nations" (non-Jews). Of course we've all seen TV shows and/or movies showing an incident of Jews referring to non-Jews as goyim in a denigrating fashion, but that's because of the tone of the statement. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Bob

[bloodyminded]

For the purpose of clarification, the term "goy" is not inherently disparaging. It depends on the tone or context within which it is said. The term is Yiddish and simply means "nation", so "goyim" (plural form of goy) refers to "the nations" (non-Jews). Of course we've all seen TV shows and/or movies showing an incident of Jews referring to non-Jews as goyim in a denigrating fashion, but that's because of the tone of the statement. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

True. In fact, it usually isn't used in a particularly disparaging fashion.

[Bob]

True. In fact, it usually isn't used in a particularly disparaging fashion.

Sometimes I get the impression that some gentiles out there think that we Jews think we're some sort of superior group of people. Another misrepresentation is that we describe ourselves as "the chosen people", when more accurately, we're to be viewed as "the people who chose God". In other words, it's not that we were chosen, but that we made a choice.

Basically, I find there is some misinformation out there which attempts to portray us as if we all think we're the best thing out there since sliced bread.