What should be the minimum requirements to immigrate?

[Machjo]

I'll start it.

first off, I'd make an age distinction. For example, we might say that anyone under the age of fifteen could come as long as his legal guardian meets all the basic criteria.

Otherwise, I'd say:

1. Know the local language and culture well.

2. Prove knowledge of a trade or profession that is in demand.

3. Pass a criminal record check.

Also, I'd say that this should apply to each applicant and no one gets a free ride owing to their relationship to another, except perhaps those under the age of fifteen.

Any other requirements?

[wyly]

I'll start it.

first off, I'd make an age distinction. For example, we might say that anyone under the age of fifteen could come as long as his legal guardian meets all the basic criteria.

Otherwise, I'd say:

1. Know the local language and culture well.

2. Prove knowledge of a trade or profession that is in demand.

3. Pass a criminal record check.

Also, I'd say that this should apply to each applicant and no one gets a free ride owing to their relationship to another, except perhaps those under the age of fifteen.

Any other requirements?

my father-in-law came to Canada not speaking a word of english, 6th grade education at 14 alone, no trade or skill started washing dishes then working in a bakery and kitchens...and he retired a very wealthy man...

[KeyStone]

I'll start it.

first off, I'd make an age distinction. For example, we might say that anyone under the age of fifteen could come as long as his legal guardian meets all the basic criteria.

Otherwise, I'd say:

1. Know the local language and culture well.

2. Prove knowledge of a trade or profession that is in demand.

3. Pass a criminal record check.

Also, I'd say that this should apply to each applicant and no one gets a free ride owing to their relationship to another, except perhaps those under the age of fifteen.

Any other requirements?

Well, according to your requirements, the only immigrants that we would be taking are English speaking persons with a trade that is in demand. So, great. We take immigrants from Australia, UK and the US.

What you fail to realize is that Canada is not taking immigrants to be nice to the immigrants. We take immigrants because we are not replenishing the population on our own fast enough to make up for the continuous passing of debts and obligations to the next generation.

Add to that the fact that no Canadian-born wants to work the krap jobs. Sure, people will work in Fast Food and retail as students, but who will do it M-F 9-5. Do you want a job at Second Cup in Toronto during the week?

Canada is letting immigrants in to put downward pressure on wages, fill jobs that nobody else wants, and grow the population enough to make up for the retiring baby boomers, which will cripple us with health care costs, once they all become seniors.

The list that you have provided is good for fast tracking people, but not so good for addressing the needs of Canada in regards to our immigration policy.

[Bonam]

I'll start it.

first off, I'd make an age distinction. For example, we might say that anyone under the age of fifteen could come as long as his legal guardian meets all the basic criteria.

Otherwise, I'd say:

1. Know the local language and culture well.

2. Prove knowledge of a trade or profession that is in demand.

3. Pass a criminal record check.

Also, I'd say that this should apply to each applicant and no one gets a free ride owing to their relationship to another, except perhaps those under the age of fifteen.

Any other requirements?

I disagree with most of this, except of course #3.

In regards to #2... how do you verify that a trade/profession is known by the applicant? Believe a degree from some third world institution that could easily have been gotten through a bribe? Believe the person himself if it's a trade which he may have learned through apprenticeship/practice? How do we known which trades are in demand? Should the government keep a list of in demand trades, which will invariably be politicized and years behind what is actually in demand?

I say these are bad ways to do immigration. The requirement I would propose instead of #2 is simple:

Anyone with an active job offer from a Canadian employer. The employer can be a high tech firm hiring PhDs, or it can be a fast food joint hiring minimum wage workers. What matters is not what training the immigrant supposedly has, but whether they can get a job when they come to Canada. Having an offer from an employer is proof that they will immediately have a job. This system works well for the US.

In regards to #1... knowing the language to a certain extent is important in any job, but what do you mean by the "knowing it well" requirement? I would say that this should, again, basically be up to an employer. If in the opinion of the employer the person is worth extending a job offer to, then clearly they have sufficient command of English (and/or French) for whatever it is they are going to be doing. As for "knowing the culture"... I don't think that is really important prior to coming here. A test about Canadian history, law, culture, etc, can and should be part of when an immigrant applies for citizenship, but should not be a criteria for just coming over if they have an active job offer.

Besides immigrants who have an active job offer, we should also be looking for immigrants that show exceptional ability (not just a trade/degree, but things like leading researchers, renowned doctors, famous people, successful businessmen, etc). Recruiting the best individuals from around the world is something we want to be doing all the time. This is something that the US does as well, and has allowed them to fast track immigration for the most talented individuals from around the world. We should be doing this too.

Lastly, we should be trying to attract top quality immigrants, not just desperate people that will do anything to come here. High caliber immigrants are not going to leave behind their spouse or children just to come to Canada. If an immigrant qualifies based on having an offer of employment or based on having exceptional ability, they should be allowed to come and bring along their spouse and children (of any age).

Edited April 10, 2010 by Bonam

[Guest TrueMetis]

I'll start it.

first off, I'd make an age distinction. For example, we might say that anyone under the age of fifteen could come as long as his legal guardian meets all the basic criteria.

Otherwise, I'd say:

1. Know the local language and culture well.

2. Prove knowledge of a trade or profession that is in demand.

3. Pass a criminal record check.

Also, I'd say that this should apply to each applicant and no one gets a free ride owing to their relationship to another, except perhaps those under the age of fifteen.

Any other requirements?

1. should be flexible depending on demand for that job.

2. should be waved if the immigrant in question already has a job lined up.

Well, according to your requirements, the only immigrants that we would be taking are English speaking persons with a trade that is in demand. So, great. We take immigrants from Australia, UK and the US.

English is known by a large amount of people in the world. 53 countries offical language is english with 500 million to 1.8 billion speakers. Also do recall we have two offical languages French and English, either one should be fine.

[Machjo]

As for point number 2 in the OP, I did mean it in a practical sense, such as proof that of a job offer or something proving that his skill was truly in demand.

As for number 1, it's not good enough to just know the language for jobs, but also to communicate with police, 911, lawyers, paramedics, candidates in elections, etc. etc. etc. We should not have to spend money on interpreters and translators since they only know enough to do their job at work and that's it.

Also, I purposely did not mention which language since obviously it will vary according to locality.

[Muddy]

Health! We should not bring in people who have communicable diseases and will be a burden on the health Care system .We can not afford to be the worlds health care system. I don`t care if they speak the official languages. Everyone can learn a new language. What we don`t need is older people who will never contribute and of course people with a history of crime.

[Argus]

my father-in-law came to Canada not speaking a word of english, 6th grade education at 14 alone, no trade or skill started washing dishes then working in a bakery and kitchens...and he retired a very wealthy man...

And for everyone like that fourteen more drift from jobs pushing brooms to driving taxis to waiting on tables - when they're not unemployed - and never wind up paying more in taxes than the services they use.

[Argus]

What you fail to realize is that Canada is not taking immigrants to be nice to the immigrants. We take immigrants because we are not replenishing the population on our own fast enough to make up for the continuous passing of debts and obligations to the next generation.

Please explain how taking in barely literate unskilled people who will work as taxi drivers and never pay much in the way of taxes is going to help retire debt and obligations, especially given the average age of immigrants is not much lower than the average age of Canadian born citizens.

Add to that the fact that no Canadian-born wants to work the krap jobs. Sure, people will work in Fast Food and retail as students, but who will do it M-F 9-5. Do you want a job at Second Cup in Toronto during the week?

Nobody wants to work crap jobs, including immigrants. The people who do so have no skills. Do you seriously suggest we bring in more unskilled workers? Jobs will find workers without immigrants. They just might have to make them less crappy and better paying.

Canada is letting immigrants in to put downward pressure on wages

,

I'm sure that really pleases lower skilled working Canadians, knowing the government is bringing in immigrants to keep their wages as low as possible.

[Argus]

Anyone with an active job offer from a Canadian employer. The employer can be a high tech firm hiring PhDs, or it can be a fast food joint hiring minimum wage workers. What matters is not what training the immigrant supposedly has, but whether they can get a job when they come to Canada. Having an offer from an employer is proof that they will immediately have a job. This system works well for the US.

No, it could be proof they're willing to take a crappy job - for a week - to qualify for entry into Canada before spending the next forty years on welfare. Or it could be proof they're willing to pay a thousand bucks under the table to someone who will extend a job offer - for a week - then fire them so they can go on welfare for 40 years.

[Machjo]

No, it could be proof they're willing to take a crappy job - for a week - to qualify for entry into Canada before spending the next forty years on welfare. Or it could be proof they're willing to pay a thousand bucks under the table to someone who will extend a job offer - for a week - then fire them so they can go on welfare for 40 years.

Simple solution to that problem. Cut welfare. If you can't find a job, the government could provide you with the education you need to make you employable. If you have the skills, then the government could put you to work where no one else wants to work.

As for immigrants, they ought to be able to prove not only that they have a job, but that they also have plenty of skill making it unlikely that they'll need further government-paid education (with maybe an exception made to those under the age of fifteen) owing to their being highly skilled in a high-paying job. That way, we can be sure that they wont' willingly quit that job for government hard-labour workfare that will make them earn their money.

I think we need to scrap the quota system altogether and go 100% to a points system.

[Bonam]

No, it could be proof they're willing to take a crappy job - for a week - to qualify for entry into Canada before spending the next forty years on welfare. Or it could be proof they're willing to pay a thousand bucks under the table to someone who will extend a job offer - for a week - then fire them so they can go on welfare for 40 years.

Obviously the system would require oversight. An employer who engaged in such activities would face reprisal. And an immigrant who did not have a job and had not yet become a citizen would have their visa expire and be forced to return where they came from.

I don't see a problem.

[eyeball]

The problem with brining in only highly skilled immigrants is that it robs other countries of the people they most need to develop. If this leads to further or worsening deprivation and greater pressure for even more people to migrate away, what's been gained?

An excuse to continue living beyond our means is pretty much it in a nutshell.

[Bonam]

The problem with brining in only highly skilled immigrants is that it robs other countries of the people they most need to develop. If this leads to further or worsening deprivation and greater pressure for even more people to migrate away, what's been gained?

Irrelevant. It is the individual's choice, if given the opportunity to immigrate, whether to do so or not. Those who care about their own countries will remain, those who would rather immigrate, will do so. The only question is whether they are going to immigrate to Canada, or to some other nation (such as the US). We should be doing our best to recruit top quality individuals.

[Mr.Canada]

This will never happen because it would mean the government actually use common sense.

1. Read and write English at at least a grade 8 level.

2. No criminal record.

3. No terrorist ties.

4. Have a skill Canada needs with all certificates/documents and proof of proficiency.

5. Willing to assimilate with existing Canadians.

That's my minimum as I say it will never happen and I'll most likely leave Canada at some point when I get tired enough of the lunacy in this country. Either that or I'll buy a big piece of property, erect a huge fence, sit on porch with a shot gun and cuss all day long while spitting chaw into a hole I carved into the porches floorboards. I haven't decided yet.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Mr.Canada

[Bonam]

That's my minimum as I say it will never happen and I'll most likely leave Canada at some point when I get tired enough of the lunacy in this country.

Where will you go?

[Mr.Canada]

Where will you go?

Dunno yet. Israel for a while then perhaps somewhere tropical where I'll be treated properly for my station in life. I've also been looking at property in Namibia, seems reasonably stable there plus it's very cheap to hire people to work for you. Not like here where real Canadians are treated like ATM machines for the socialists.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Mr.Canada

[eyeball]

Irrelevant. It is the individual's choice, if given the opportunity to immigrate, whether to do so or not. Those who care about their own countries will remain, those who would rather immigrate, will do so. The only question is whether they are going to immigrate to Canada, or to some other nation (such as the US). We should be doing our best to recruit top quality individuals.

Those would be the people who care about their country. So what you're actually proposing is that we compete for people who only care about themselves, that is, second rate people. Don't we have enough of these already?

I think doing our best to try and make the home countries of these people better places to live is the better way to go. We need to find more constructive ways to address the costs of our pig bearing python. The brain drain from developing countries could have long term implications that imperil our future generations in ways that make the financial debt we're leaving behind pale in comparison.

[Argus]

Obviously the system would require oversight. An employer who engaged in such activities would face reprisal. And an immigrant who did not have a job and had not yet become a citizen would have their visa expire and be forced to return where they came from.

I don't see a problem.

No, you wouldn't.

Immigrants do not come here on visas. They come here as immigrants. Once they're here, they stay. For example, immigrants who falsely marry a Canadian merely to get citizenship, and then divorce them immediately thereafter, are still permitted to stay in Canada and become citizens. That they clearly came under false pretenses is not considered of any importance. I have no reason to believe immigrants who come here under false job offers will be treated any differently. They will be permitted to stay and go on welfare for the rest of their lives.

[Bonam]

Those would be the people who care about their country. So what you're actually proposing is that we compete for people who only care about themselves, that is, second rate people. Don't we have enough of these already?

Obviously, your definition of first rate people is different from mine.

I think doing our best to try and make the home countries of these people better places to live is the better way to go.

And I think we should stop meddling and let those countries develop on their own. People are leaving those countries for many other countries around the world anyway. We may as well benefit from it.

No, you wouldn't.

Immigrants do not come here on visas. They come here as immigrants. Once they're here, they stay. For example, immigrants who falsely marry a Canadian merely to get citizenship, and then divorce them immediately thereafter, are still permitted to stay in Canada and become citizens. That they clearly came under false pretenses is not considered of any importance. I have no reason to believe immigrants who come here under false job offers will be treated any differently. They will be permitted to stay and go on welfare for the rest of their lives.

We are talking about a change to the immigration system. To me that means changing not just the criteria for coming over but other aspects of the system as well.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Bonam

[eyeball]

Obviously, your definition of first rate people is different from mine.

And I think we should stop meddling and let those countries develop on their own. People are leaving those countries for many other countries around the world anyway. We may as well benefit from it.

Our definition of meddling is probably different too.

They're probably leaving many countries because they were meddled with in the past.

[Bonam]

Our definition of meddling is probably different too.

They're probably leaving many countries because they were meddled with in the past.

Yes because all ills in the world were caused by Western interference... not. In any case, even if they were, we can't go back in time and "unmeddle". What we can do is stop meddling now. Better for us, better for them.

And yet you insist that we should instead be "helping them to develop". That is exactly what the previous generations of Westerners, who you now accuse of "meddling", thought they were doing. How do you know that you are any less misguided than they were?

[Muddy]

When immigrants and refugees are allowed here based on lies that should be enough to send them packing. I don`t think any relationship started on lies is a basis for a long term relationship. If someone lies about being an axe murder in their home land then when found out get rid of the threat out to Canadians.

[Machjo]

As for the brain drain, as long as English and French remain important world languages, the countries that speak these languages will continue to benefit from the brain drain. Only international agreements restructuring the world's language order could stop that. So let's not blame Canada for what is essentially a world problem. We're not forcing them to learn our languages.

[wyly]

As for the brain drain, as long as English and French remain important world languages, the countries that speak these languages will continue to benefit from the brain drain. Only international agreements restructuring the world's language order could stop that. So let's not blame Canada for what is essentially a world problem. We're not forcing them to learn our languages.

and we're not forcing to come here either...migration is part of our makeup as humans, we migrate to what we think are better feeding grounds/opportunities and have been doing so for a couple million years... Edited April 11, 2010 by wyly