Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 He had to act, he had no choice, he did the right thing. However, smear jobs and innuendo should not convict someone, and neither should a PM dump a cabinet member simply because the opposition wants political blood. PM's should dump a cabinet minister just as soon as the minister does stupid things in the public eye. Guergis and her minions did a bunch of very stupid things. Quote
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Sure. Geterdone. I seriously doubt you'll find anything which goes beyond what the other parties are doing now or have been doing for years. So you agree that Harper does indeed engage in innuendo and false allegations. Thank you for playing. Quote
Argus Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 So you agree that Harper does indeed engage in innuendo and false allegations. Thank you for playing. Since you were unable to supply anything, despite offering to, I gather you agree that the Tories have never engaged in such behaviour. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Mulroney was not a member of the Conservative Party - which did not exist at that time. I dont blame you and the Reformers/Alliance/Progressive Conservatives for eventually wanting to distance yourself from Mulroney. The stench of it all must have been unbearable for you.... Quote
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 (edited) Since you were unable to supply anything, despite offering to, I gather you agree that the Tories have never engaged in such behaviour. Harper telling the world that Paul Martin supports child pornography for one. So I agree with you that the Harper gang wouldnt do anything which goes beyond what the other parties are doing now or have been doing for years. I'd say they are about the same. Thank you for playing. Edited April 15, 2010 by Born Free Quote
Dave_ON Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 I guess you're chronologically dyslexic. Even every American knows that the order of modern PM's is King, St. Laurent, Diefenbaker, Pearson, Trudeau, Clark, Trudeau, Turner, Mulroney, Campbell, Chretien, Martin and Harper. I thought for sure a good and intelligent Canadian like you would know who your PM's were and are. Indeed but we do our level best to forget about every other one in the last 30 years. Martin, Campbell, Turner and Clark. Thanks for rubbing salt in the wounds Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
jbg Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 First we had Chretien and his mob rule. Then we had the ethically challenged Mulroney. Here we go again... That still doesn't explain how Mulroney succeeded Chretien. I didnt say he did. Really now? Are my eyes playing tricks with me? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 I have a long history on this site of replying in kind to the intellectual quality of the posts which precede mine. In this case what intellectual quality? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Indeed but we do our level best to forget about every other one in the last 30 years. Martin, Campbell, Turner and Clark. Thanks for rubbing salt in the wounds Those folks werent caught taking large sums of cash and then years later fessing up by claiming it was bad judgement...Oh yes...and only paying half the tax that should have been paid. Quote
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 (edited) Really now? Are my eyes playing tricks with me? I think your brain is. I wasnt refering to the sequence of their time in office. I was commenting on the sequence of the inquiries re their getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar .. so to speak. Edited April 15, 2010 by Born Free Quote
jbg Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 I think your brain is. I wasnt refering to the sequence of their time in office. I was commenting on the sequence of the inquiries re their getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar .. so to speak. George Orwell would call that line of "reasoning" double-think, or coming up with an after-the-fact rationalization. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Dave_ON Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 I see no such corruption in the present government, notwistanding that a power couple who used to be in the party ran afoul of drugs. Save that they ran a foul of drugs while still a member of the CPC. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 George Orwell would call that line of "reasoning" double-think, or coming up with an after-the-fact rationalization. You must be very young and feel compelled to want to start another bar fight that you wont win. Quote
Wild Bill Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Save that they ran a foul of drugs while still a member of the CPC. How does that logically connect, Dave? People have ran afoul of drugs while members of the Liberal Party, or the Rotary, or the Boy Scouts! Association does not logically follow both ways. It's like calling marijuana a gateway drug to heroin, because most heroin users at one time used marijuana. They also likely used aspirin, or CocaCola, or ate hamburgers. Could Helena and Rahim have run afoul of drugs while eating at McDonalds? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Molly Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 (Were Helena and Rahim at that MacDonalds to talk to finance minister Flaherty? No, no. That was Tim's, not MacDonalds. Silly me.) Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Dave_ON Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Those folks werent caught taking large sums of cash and then years later fessing up by claiming it was bad judgement...Oh yes...and only paying half the tax that should have been paid. They are all also politically insignificant as PM's. In almost every case they were the "fall guy/gal" for the previous PM's making their timely egress from political life. Clark of course was the exception and was ahead of his time. He tried to operate as a majority in a minority government. This was a mistake because the LPC was strong and thoroughly whipped him in an election. Harper has managed to maintain his minority power quite nicely due in no small part to the relative weakness of the LPC. Say what you will about Chretien, Mulroney and Trudeau. Truth is they all did good things for this country. I'm no Harper fan and even I have to admit Harper has done some things I agree with. Seems the PM's we hate the most and are somewhat infamous for one reason or another are the ones that have the most impact on our country. The ones we don't mind so much are the ones that face to relative insignificance. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
Dave_ON Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 How does that logically connect, Dave? People have ran afoul of drugs while members of the Liberal Party, or the Rotary, or the Boy Scouts! Association does not logically follow both ways. It's like calling marijuana a gateway drug to heroin, because most heroin users at one time used marijuana. They also likely used aspirin, or CocaCola, or ate hamburgers. Could Helena and Rahim have run afoul of drugs while eating at McDonalds? It logically connects in as far as Argus post was implying that former members of the CPC ran afoul of drugs. This statement implies they left the CPC and THEN ran afoul. I was simply setting the record straight that it occurred WHILE they were in the CPC. The devil is in the details as it were. I was making no inferences, simply stating fact. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 They are all also politically insignificant as PM's. In almost every case they were the "fall guy/gal" for the previous PM's making their timely egress from political life. Clark of course was the exception and was ahead of his time. He tried to operate as a majority in a minority government. This was a mistake because the LPC was strong and thoroughly whipped him in an election. Harper has managed to maintain his minority power quite nicely due in no small part to the relative weakness of the LPC. Say what you will about Chretien, Mulroney and Trudeau. Truth is they all did good things for this country. I'm no Harper fan and even I have to admit Harper has done some things I agree with. Seems the PM's we hate the most and are somewhat infamous for one reason or another are the ones that have the most impact on our country. The ones we don't mind so much are the ones that face to relative insignificance. In essence I agree with two exceptions.... Chretien was a thug and a sleazebag. I have absolutely no respect for him. Unfortunately ... as the case may be...Mulroney really did get caught in the headlights with his proverbial hand in the cookie jar. I suppose you could include the much villified Mike Harris in the list of strong leaders who fell from grace. Essentially I never for a minute accepted his having to take the blame for Walkerton but he did act like a dumb thug when it came to Ipperwash. I really wish we had another Joe Clark on the sidelines. All we have now is a Jack Layton, Ignatieff (with a Bob Ray looming) and U-Know-Who... Oy! Quote
Molly Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Aye. Clark is one of the very few still kicking around who one could, without embarrassment, refer to as a statesman. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Born Free Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Aye. Clark is one of the very few still kicking around who one could, without embarrassment, refer to as a statesman. Indeed. Quote
M.Dancer Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 Aye. Clark is one of the very few still kicking around who one could, without embarrassment, refer to as a statesman. Bumbling statesmen... Even before the budget, the government was criticized for its perceived inexperience, such as in its handling of its campaign commitment to move Canada's embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Clark Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
madmax Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 I am on record in one of these jaffer threads that he should be hung out to dry... And I am on record as suggesting that Guergis did Cocaine with hubby. Quote
M.Dancer Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 And I am on record as suggesting that Guergis did Cocaine with hubby. That would be almost better than if he was doing it behind her back...almost... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
madmax Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 My stance on crime is identical in all instances. BALONEY!!! Your stance on crime is hypocritical. Just read your post.. your "identical" diverges into a rant against the Liberals. Your poolitical bias is so overwhelming that you cannot have an identicals stance of crime. All hat no horse. Quote
Dave_ON Posted April 15, 2010 Report Posted April 15, 2010 And the plot thickens... http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/04/15/guergis-ethics-commissioner.html Rubel did not disclose the allegations. But media reports named Derek Snowdy as the private investigator who told Conservative Party officials that a probe into Toronto businessman Nazim Gillani uncovered allegations of cocaine use and stock fraud involving Guergis and her husband, ex-Conservative MP Rahim Jaffer. A Toronto Star report says Gillani claimed to Snowdy that three offshore companies in Belize had been "reserved" to hold cash for Guergis and Jaffer. The Star report also reported Snowdy as saying he told a Conservative Party lawyer that Gillani boasted he had cellphone pictures of Jaffer and Guergis "partying" with high-class escorts when cocaine was being snorted. Hmm so now it's not just drug use but it's also stock fraud and possibly tax evasion? It's interesting because her lawyer was maintaining that she was never informed of thes allegations until just today. What's also interesting is this... PMO spokesman Dimitri Soudas said Harper immediately turned over the "serious and credible allegations" against Guergis to the RCMP and the ethics commissioner once he learned of them. He also said Guergis was told of the allegations against her last Friday. I guess this story may very well have more longevity than I originally thought. You can't make stuff this good up. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
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