Liberals

[maplesyrup]

That is huge sweeping generalization you are making about how many, is it 160,000 people? And don't forget the 10,000 people that administer 3 hospitals in the Ottawa area.

Do we even know whether these issues were political or bureaucratic?

What about the whistleblower legislation as well?

There used to be at one time something called ministerial responsibility. What has happened to that end of things? It seems that the a little game is played when a minister's department gets into trouble, the minister gets shifted to another department, and then says they cannot comment on their previous department. Excuse me!

[kimmy]

That is huge sweeping generalization you are making about how many, is it 160,000 people? And don't forget the 10,000 people that administer 3 hospitals in the Ottawa area.

I am not making a sweeping generalization about public service employees! As I said earlier, it is probably a case of a few bad apples ruining things for the whole bunch.

And, unfortunately, when people at the top screw up, everybody in the organization pays for it. (I know this, because my dad used to work at Nortel. )

But no matter what the case, changes still had to be made. The job they were doing was just not acceptable.

Do we even know whether these issues were political or bureaucratic?

Quite obviously some of them are bureaucratic. Like, I don't think the Minister of Defence told his staffers to spend $160 million on HP gear without actually getting the stuff they paid for. I don't think there was political direction in the HRDC screw-up. It was a case of people just not bother to follow procedures. We still don't know for sure if there was political direction in the sponsorship program, but we do know for sure that the bureaucracy was involved... we also don't know yet about the gun registry. It was either corruption or incompetence that made costs spiral out of control, and maybe both! We have not yet yeard a good explanation of what went wrong, but the RCMP has laid charges in connection with some of the money that went into the gun registry.

What about the whistleblower legislation as well?

What about it? I think it's a good idea, although I saw an expert interviewed who said that it won't actually make a difference.

There used to be at one time something called ministerial responsibility. What has happened to that end of things? It seems that the a little game is played when a minister's department gets into trouble, the minister gets shifted to another department, and then says they cannot comment on their previous department. Excuse me!

Well, I think it would be nice if more politicians were stand-up people. But that doesn't let the whole civil service off the hook. A minister, especially one who can get shuffled in and out of a portfolio at the drop of a hat, can't be expected to know an organization of thousands of people from top to bottom. There has to be delegation inside an organization that big. Managers there have to do their job, and make sure the employees are following procedures. If the managers within the public service had been doing their job, Sheila Fraser wouldn't have had much to write about.

-kimmy :angry:

[maplesyrup]

What about the whistleblower legislation as well?

What about it? I think it's a good idea, although I saw an expert interviewed who said that it won't actually make a difference.

So whose fault is that? Certainly not the civil service.

It is always easy to bash someone who is defenceless, isn't it?

What about Ken Lay? Martha Stewart?

[kimmy]

I just don't understand what your point is.

Are you saying that whistleblower legislation is another example of Paul Martin being mean to the public service?

Or are you saying that now that there is whistleblower legislation, the public service will be all fixed and there is no need to hold people accountable for the gross mismanagement of the past few years? I strongly disagree. Whistleblower legislation is only one step in making things more accountable.

What do Ken Lay or Martha Stewart have to do with the public service in Canada? Are you saying that because Martha and the Enron Guy lied and cheated, it is ok for people in the public service to lie, cheat, or mismanage public money? Sorry, I just don't see your point.

Martha Stewart and Ken Lay are facing criminal charges for what they did. If people involved in Ad-Scam participated in fraud of millions of dollars of tax money, they should face criminal charges too.

This is our tax money! It is supposed to be used for roads and hospital beds and schools and helping poor people. It is just not acceptible that so much of it has been lost, wasted, or worst of all frauded into friends' businesses over the past few years. That money is supposed to be used to make lives better for all Canadians.

-kimmy

[kimmy]

Yay! Another example of how much cooler Paul Martin is than Jean Chretien!

Ethics Commissioner

-kimmy

[maplesyrup]

What I'm saying is that according to the civil service, who ought to know best, the whistleblower legislation is not worth the paper it is written on. There is no adequate protection and so there will be no whistleblowing. It is all smoke and mirrors with Martin.

Anyways Martin should return CSL to Canada, and make it pay Canadian income taxes like the rest of us Canadians.

[maplesyrup]

Yay! Another example of how much cooler Paul Martin is than Jean Chretien!

Ethics Commissioner

-kimmy

Like he had a choice, eh?

Where have you been?

Ever hear of something called ADSCAM?

[maplesyrup]

And now for a little dose of Liberal reality:

Headaches Galore for Paul Martin After Election Blow

It wasn't supposed to be this difficult.

When Paul Martin took over as prime minister of Canada in December from fellow Liberal Jean Chretien, he had a healthy majority in parliament and predicted his agenda of radical change would keep him in power for a decade.

But Martin -- badly distracted by a patronage scandal -- was unable to deliver on the many promises he made. Voters took their revenge in a June 28 election, leaving the Liberals angry, weakened and relying on minor parties to govern.

So the man who had little success running Canada when the odds suited him must now do so in much more trying conditions.

"His first six months as prime minister were shockingly bad; he lacked focus, he lacked vision, he lacked coherence," said the Globe and Mail newspaper.

(251)

[maplesyrup]

Minority Cabinet Day has arrived:

Martin leans to the left

Big-name Liberal rookies catapulted into cabinet

Martin beefs up western team

Are Canadians about to receive a treat here, from this new minority Liberal government?

[kimmy]

Yay!  Another example of how much cooler Paul Martin is than Jean Chretien!

Ethics Commissioner

-kimmy 

Like he had a choice, eh?

Where have you been?

Ever hear of something called ADSCAM?

Chretien had 11 years to make the ethics counsellor position independant, and somehow never got around to it. He had plenty of scandals where he should have been shamed into admitting that Howard Wilson was just a rubber stamp, but never did. You know why? Because for Jean Chretien, it was always about winning fights. And if Jean Chretien were still Prime Minister, he wouldn't have appointed an inquiry. He'd have shuffled ministers, appointed them to positions in Denmark, whatever it took to deflect blame. He publicly criticized Paul Martin for not doing the same.

So don't give me "Adscam". Adscam wouldn't have strong-armed Jean Chretien into doing a bloody thing. Paul Martin's response to Adscam (his "overreaction", according to Chretien) is yet another example of how different the two men are.

-kimmy :angry:

[maplesyrup]

Only 8 women out of 38, or only 1 in 5, in the new Liberal Cabinet. Perhaps Martin's older generation habits are showing through.

[RB]

oh gawd this government just keep getting bigger

Increase in public sector workers (+32,000) - JUNE 04

So far in 2004 (+75,000)

please visit Statistics Canada

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Lab.../LFS/lfs-en.htm

Do we need so many people to manage this economy?

[maplesyrup]

I presume those increases are Canadawide, which include the feds, the provinces, the regional gov'ts., and the municipal gov'ts., not just the federales.

Is that correct?

Perhaps some of those jobs are summer jobs such as working in our national parks, etc.

Do we need so many people to manage this economy?

Why in the world would you think civil servants are just there to manage the economy?

[RB]

Oh i consider myself very lucky that 30% of the Canadian population are employed in government and are there so that they can take care of us and make us happy

so managed the economy? well i sure like paying to be lucky this day.

while we are at this maybe we should add some more folks since I did not mention about the funded projects and consulting projects funded by governments

i added the 75,000 to last years employed stat in public servants 2,910,419 - no problem

[I miss Reagan]

Hey we need people to operate the phones at

1-800-OhCanada. That is a very important public service you know.

[maplesyrup]

Paul Martin unveils PMO changes

Scott Reid as communications director, a unilingual anglo. How brilliant!

[maplesyrup]

Martin not inspiring confidence

Not a good sign. Will Layton have to become Canada's saviour?

[Big Blue Machine]

Get real, Canada is a slight left thinking country. the NDP are very left. Canada choses between Liberals and COnservatives. The NDP isn't a factor for the win.

[maplesyrup]

You are entitled to your dumbass* opinion.

*from That 70s Show

[Big Blue Machine]

I may be a dumbass, but dumbass can be right sometimes.

[maplesyrup]

The Conservatives are Right-of-Centre.

The New Democrats are Left-Of-Centre

The Liberals campaign on the Left-of-Centre, and govern on the Right-of-Centre. The Liberals have shifted to the Right with Paul Martin, by how much not quite sure yet.

Le Bloc Quebecois are Left-of-Centre I think.

[maplesyrup]

Shark fins spotted in Liberal waters

This battle about whenther or not to follow Trudeau's approach will shake the Liberal party to its core. If too many members reject Trudeau's approach I can see the party heading towards self destruction, but we are still quite a ways away from that happening.

[maplesyrup]

PM Paul Martin's charm:

Exclusion from Bush dinner angers backbench Liberals

What was supposed to be an event to help mend Canada-U.S. relations has instead damaged Liberal caucus relations PoliticsWatch has learned.

       

A large number of backbench Liberal MPs and senators are reportedly steamed at the PMO after they were not invited to the gala dinner with U.S. President George W. Bush at the Museum of Civilization on Tuesday night.

The NDP should begin to open up discussions with any centre or left-of-centre disgruntled Liberals.

[Newfie Canadian]

I don't know about that MS, but I can see a time, maybe not that far off, that the Liberal party will fracture much the same as the federal PC party did.

There are disgruntled Liberals all over the place.

I saw an interview the other day by Don Newman with the chair of the Women's Liberal caucus (I can't remember her name) who said the women's caucus was preparing a draft resolution for the Commons opposing missle defence.

Discontent is most certainly brewing.

[maplesyrup]

PM Martin may take his caucus for pawns or fools, but he is playing a dangerous game playing the Canadian public for fools:

PM denies Bush said he plans to weaponize space