Flahrety Budget 2010, what gives?

[punked]

I got a comment you can't balance a budget by stealing 50 billion out of EI. That money isn't for health care or the military it is for unemployment. That is all Martin did he had a 50 billion dollar whole and he stole that money from EI. I don't give him credit for that a 6 year old could do that.

[punked]

Which is why only the Liberal government has managed to keep balanced books over the past 20 years. The Conservatives took over and pointed the nose of the fiscal airplane towards the ground.

Ask yourself why the Liberals never poll high on the economy. Sorry I am not saying they are bad I am saying Canadians see as them as bad. If they make the election about money they will lose period.

[ToadBrother]

and they did it by cutting back on transfers to provinces for basic services, and by gutting the military. I can see how you'd fall for that dog and pony show. I didn't.

I really doubt that there will be an election no matter what is in the budget or how badly Harper wants one. The country will have just finished an orgy of back-patting and nationalism after the Olympics. The economy will likely still be showing signs of a slow economic recovery. The Opposiiton just does not have any traction from such 'scandals' as Afghan detainees or prorogation. Try as they might, the Opposition just can't anybody except their own suppporters to care about either, and that own support is halfhearted at best.

But they have bigger problems, much bigger. Ignatieff is looking more and more like a bust for the Liberals. Jack Layton is invisible in the media.

But most of all and worst of all is the reality that Stephen Harper has been PM for nearly four years now and has yet to be caught eating a baby on camera. Canadians are more comfortable with him than ever. They are usedf to having him as PM and the fear gewnerated by the Liberals has abated. The Opposiiton has had unlimited opportunity and plenty oif time and two elections to dump him- and have not chosen to do so. All it takes is a moment of unanimity, a quick vote of confidence, and the country is rid of Stevie. It has not happened, all Opposition parties have supported him at crucial times, and that does not help their chances of replacing him. The optics on that are brutal for the loyal Opposition, who have mostly been loyal to Harper himself.

And this folks, is what they call Orwellian spin doctoring...

Low polls are high polls... rejection is acceptance... Democracy is a silenced Parliament... Vacations are work...

Edited January 14, 2010 by ToadBrother

[nicky10013]

Ask yourself why the Liberals never poll high on the economy. Sorry I am not saying they are bad I am saying Canadians see as them as bad. If they make the election about money they will lose period.

Canadians think they're bad because they're told they're bad by Conservatives who lie for their teeth. Just like the Liberals are bad on national defense. It's garbage.

[fellowtraveller]

And this folks, is what they call Orwellian spin doctoring...

Low polls are high polls... rejection is acceptance... Democracy is a silenced Parliament... Vacations are work...

Facts are facts, skippy.

Four years as minority now, and counting.

And four years when the Opposition could dump themn in a heartbeat, and have chosen not to do so.

The Opposiiton won't and cannot force an election in March, they'd be creamed. Nope, Jack and Iggy will spend the year shouting at Harper, then voting with him. As usual.

[ToadBrother]

Facts are facts, skippy.

Indeed they are. The Tories blew a massive lead, and levels almost great enough to deliver a majority.

Four years as minority now, and counting.

With no end to minorities in sight.

And four years when the Opposition could dump themn in a heartbeat, and have chosen not to do so.

Well, that's not quite true. You see, in 2008 Harper used prorogation to run like hell from Parliament.

The Opposiiton won't and cannot force an election in March, they'd be creamed.

That is not an observation that can be supported by any of the recent polls. This is where you begin to simply invent endings to the story that you find psychologically soothing.

Nope, Jack and Iggy will spend the year shouting at Harper, then voting with him. As usual.

And it appears that Harper will spend the rest of the year basically doing what Iggy and Layton tell him.

I realize you need to say these things to make yourself feel better, but I don't really think anyone else needs to support you in your strange fixation on Harper.

Edited January 14, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Shakeyhands]

Ask yourself why the Liberals never poll high on the economy. Sorry I am not saying they are bad I am saying Canadians see as them as bad. If they make the election about money they will lose period.

lol...

The NDP can, however, be trusted with our finances?

[ToadBrother]

lol...

The NDP can, however, be trusted with our finances?

I'm not sure anyone has exactly earned our trust over the last few years. But it would have to be pretty bad before I'd give Layton the keys to the treasury.

[capricorn]

The Opposiiton won't and cannot force an election in March, they'd be creamed.

I agree with the perspective you and Bugs present.

The worse possible event that could have happened for the opposition is the earthquake in Haiti. This event has knocked everything else off the radar in this country, including Ignatieff's campus listening tour. Harper, his Cabinet and governmental officials have handled our country's immediate response very effectively and the media is taking notice. What is showing through is Harper's leadership abilities and the capabilities of his officials in handling a crisis.

The other aspect is that coming to the immediate aid of Haiti ranks right up there with protecting the vulnerable. Traditionally, this has been painted as the exclusive property of the Liberals. No more. Canadians now see that the Conservatives are just as caring as the opposition, not just in words but in deeds.

The events of the last 36 hours will also impress on Canadians that regardless of the prorogation of Parliament, the government can and stands ready to act in the most dire of circumstances.

Harper's leadership numbers are bound to increase as a result in the coming weeks and months. Quite possibly, the poll numbers might also improve for the Conservative party.

[ToadBrother]

I agree with the perspective you and Bugs present.

The worse possible event that could have happened for the opposition is the earthquake in Haiti. This event has knocked everything else off the radar in this country, including Ignatieff's campus listening tour. Harper, his Cabinet and governmental officials have handled our country's immediate response very effectively and the media is taking notice. What is showing through is Harper's leadership abilities and the capabilities of his officials in handling a crisis.

The other aspect is that coming to the immediate aid of Haiti ranks right up there with protecting the vulnerable. Traditionally, this has been painted as the exclusive property of the Liberals. No more. Canadians now see that the Conservatives are just as caring as the opposition, not just in words but in deeds.

The events of the last 36 hours will also impress on Canadians that regardless of the prorogation of Parliament, the government can and stands ready to act in the most dire of circumstances.

Harper's leadership numbers are bound to increase as a result in the coming weeks and months. Quite possibly, the poll numbers might also improve for the Conservative party.

Yeah, no kidding. Damned good think 50,000 to 100,000 Haitians died so Harper can looking commanding, determined and compassionate.

Is there any other cycle on your washing machine than spin?

At any rate, of course the government can do these sorts of things. There are contingencies in most related ministries. But are you seriously saying that all manner of government business can be done without Parliament.

Edited January 14, 2010 by ToadBrother

[waldo]

The worse possible event that could have happened for the opposition is the earthquake in Haiti. This event has knocked everything else off the radar in this country, including Ignatieff's campus listening tour. Harper, his Cabinet and governmental officials have handled our country's immediate response very effectively and the media is taking notice. What is showing through is Harper's leadership abilities and the capabilities of his officials in handling a crisis.

The other aspect is that coming to the immediate aid of Haiti ranks right up there with protecting the vulnerable. Traditionally, this has been painted as the exclusive property of the Liberals. No more. Canadians now see that the Conservatives are just as caring as the opposition, not just in words but in deeds.

The events of the last 36 hours will also impress on Canadians that regardless of the prorogation of Parliament, the government can and stands ready to act in the most dire of circumstances.

Harper's leadership numbers are bound to increase as a result in the coming weeks and months. Quite possibly, the poll numbers might also improve for the Conservative party.

translation: Hyper-Partisan Deflection De Jour... if only we can keep those natural disasters comin!

[fellowtraveller]

I agree with the perspective you and Bugs present.

The worse possible event that could have happened for the opposition is the earthquake in Haiti. This event has knocked everything else off the radar in this country, including Ignatieff's campus listening tour. Harper, his Cabinet and governmental officials have handled our country's immediate response very effectively and the media is taking notice. What is showing through is Harper's leadership abilities and the capabilities of his officials in handling a crisis.

The other aspect is that coming to the immediate aid of Haiti ranks right up there with protecting the vulnerable. Traditionally, this has been painted as the exclusive property of the Liberals. No more. Canadians now see that the Conservatives are just as caring as the opposition, not just in words but in deeds.

The events of the last 36 hours will also impress on Canadians that regardless of the prorogation of Parliament, the government can and stands ready to act in the most dire of circumstances.

Harper's leadership numbers are bound to increase as a result in the coming weeks and months. Quite possibly, the poll numbers might also improve for the Conservative party.

yep, and do not forget the warm post coital glow of the Olympics.....he'll present a budget in early March and Layton/Iggy will wank on as usual about how they hate it, then one or the other or both will vote for it - as usual.

If they don't and force an election, they will both be looking for jobs after they hand Harper a minority.

Harper loves the Toads of this country..... Harper is starting to remind me tactically of Ralph Klein, who was always grossly underestimated by those who hated him and used that to great advantage. Unlike Toad though, I credit Jack and Mikey with having enough sense not to act when they cannot win. So far, though both have nearly pushed the election button a few times but came to their senses.

[nicky10013]

Yeah, no kidding. Damned good think 50,000 to 100,000 Haitians died so Harper can looking commanding, determined and compassionate.

Is there any other cycle on your washing machine than spin?

At any rate, of course the government can do these sorts of things. There are contingencies in most related ministries. But are you seriously saying that all manner of government business can be done without Parliament.

It was a fast response. They got the army and navy out very quickly which no one can deny is a good thing. Yet, when Peter Mackay is giving a rousing god speed, of course in front of all the local tv stations and when Stephen Harper sends out his itinerary to the media that he's by chance stopping by to make a donation to the red cross, well, then, that's just politicizing the issue. To top it off, nothing I've heard from the PMO tells me where I can give money, which agencies are credible and actually operating in Haiti.

BREAKING NEWS FROM CANWEST GLOBAL! THE PM DONATES HIS PLANE! Like, give me a break. I commend them for getting off the ground so quickly (something tells me Michael Jean had a lot to do with it) but this is just another Harper low for me.

[capricorn]

Yeah, no kidding. Damned good think 50,000 to 100,000 Haitians died so Harper can looking commanding, determined and compassionate.

Who said it's a good thing, other than you? This is a political forum for political opinion. Like it or not, true life events impact politics.

[ToadBrother]

It was a fast response. They got the army and navy out very quickly which no one can deny is a good thing. Yet, when Peter Mackay is giving a rousing god speed, of course in front of all the local tv stations and when Stephen Harper sends out his itinerary to the media that he's by chance stopping by to make a donation to the red cross, well, then, that's just politicizing the issue. To top it off, nothing I've heard from the PMO tells me where I can give money, which agencies are credible and actually operating in Haiti.

BREAKING NEWS FROM CANWEST GLOBAL! THE PM DONATES HIS PLANE! Like, give me a break. I commend them for getting off the ground so quickly (something tells me Michael Jean had a lot to do with it) but this is just another Harper low for me.

How much of this, other than the go-ahead, had anything at all to do with the politicians? I'm sure the second it came over the wire that there had been an earthquake in Haiti, the armed forces of every nation in the Western hemisphere was put on alert and made ready, waiting for the politicians to give the go-ahead. The failures, for instance, in Katrina had nothing to do with any branch of the military (US or National Guard) and everything to do with the politicians and the bureaucracy.

Yes, it's all very good that Canada and many other nations are there post haste, but there's something very unseemly about using it as a sort of partisan "Harper's so great!"

[nicky10013]

How much of this, other than the go-ahead, had anything at all to do with the politicians? I'm sure the second it came over the wire that there had been an earthquake in Haiti, the armed forces of every nation in the Western hemisphere was put on alert and made ready, waiting for the politicians to give the go-ahead. The failures, for instance, in Katrina had nothing to do with any branch of the military (US or National Guard) and everything to do with the politicians and the bureaucracy.

Yes, it's all very good that Canada and many other nations are there post haste, but there's something very unseemly about using it as a sort of partisan "Harper's so great!"

I know. He's clearly using it for partisan gain because of the recent poll numbers.

[ToadBrother]

yep, and do not forget the warm post coital glow of the Olympics.....he'll present a budget in early March and Layton/Iggy will wank on as usual about how they hate it, then one or the other or both will vote for it - as usual.

If they don't and force an election, they will both be looking for jobs after they hand Harper a minority.

That's the theory.

Harper loves the Toads of this country..... Harper is starting to remind me tactically of Ralph Klein, who was always grossly underestimated by those who hated him and used that to great advantage. Unlike Toad though, I credit Jack and Mikey with having enough sense not to act when they cannot win. So far, though both have nearly pushed the election button a few times but came to their senses.

Just keep telling yourself that. Klein never had to deal with polling numbers in the low 30s or with facing another minority government.

I think everyone has overestimated Harper. He's not really looking very clever now, but if closing your eyes and repeating your little litany makes all the hurt go away, then so be it.

[nicky10013]

That's the theory.

Just keep telling yourself that. Klein never had to deal with polling numbers in the low 30s or with facing another minority government.

I think everyone has overestimated Harper. He's not really looking very clever now, but if closing your eyes and repeating your little litany makes all the hurt go away, then so be it.

Bing0. It's hard to be underestimated when your party hasn't lost an election since 1976.

Edited January 14, 2010 by nicky10013

[ToadBrother]

Bing0. It's hard to be underestimated when your party hasn't lost an election since 1976.

Indeed. It's just about the most idiotic comparison one could make. I mean, the Alberta Conservatives could have run Spock-Without-A-Brain and won during much of the last three decades.

[fellowtraveller]

BREAKING NEWS FROM CANWEST GLOBAL! THE PM DONATES HIS PLANE! Like, give me a break. I commend them for getting off the ground so quickly (something tells me Michael Jean had a lot to do with it) but this is just another Harper low for me.

Yes, it would be much better if Harper did not donate his aircraft to the relief effort. That would be much better. I wouldn't be surprised if Harper had arranged this earthquake, the scientists labouring in the bowels of the NRC are his puppets.

How much of this, other than the go-ahead, had anything at all to do with the politicians? I'm sure the second it came over the wire that there had been an earthquake in Haiti, the armed forces of every nation in the Western hemisphere was put on alert and made ready, waiting for the politicians to give the go-ahead. The failures, for instance, in Katrina had nothing to do with any branch of the military (US or National Guard) and everything to do with the politicians and the bureaucracy.Yes, it's all very good that Canada and many other nations are there post haste, but there's something very unseemly about using it as a sort of partisan "Harper's so great!"

Yep, we all know how well equipped our military was to respond to events quickly when the Liberals ran the show. It really , really pisses you off when the country does something well, doesn't it? If the Olympics should go well, you'll be upset with Harper for showing his face at a hockey game and demand to see a receipt for his ticket, won't you.

Partisan pettiness nows no bounds.

[ToadBrother]

Yes, it would be much better if Harper did not donate his aircraft to the relief effort. That would be much better. I wouldn't be surprised if Harper had arranged this earthquake, the scientists labouring in the bowels of the NRC are his puppets.

Yep, we all know how well equipped our military was to respond to events quickly when the Liberals ran the show. It really , really pisses you off when the country does something well, doesn't it? If the Olympics should go well, you'll be upset with Harper for showing his face at a hockey game and demand to see a receipt for his ticket, won't you.

Partisan pettiness nows no bounds.

I mean who the f*** do you think you're fooling. You're the one that brought up the Haitian earthquake as an example of Harper's great skills. Now you get ticked when someone says "ummmm..." You're the one that clearly believes a disaster that has killed at least 50,000 people (according to Red Cross estimates) will show the Tories as being ooh so good. In short, you're the partisan here.

There's nothing more disgusting and pathetic than watching politicians and their supporters use human misery to try to dump bump their results in the next opinion poll.

[nicky10013]

Yes, it would be much better if Harper did not donate his aircraft to the relief effort. That would be much better. I wouldn't be surprised if Harper had arranged this earthquake, the scientists labouring in the bowels of the NRC are his puppets.

Yep, we all know how well equipped our military was to respond to events quickly when the Liberals ran the show. It really , really pisses you off when the country does something well, doesn't it? If the Olympics should go well, you'll be upset with Harper for showing his face at a hockey game and demand to see a receipt for his ticket, won't you.

Partisan pettiness nows no bounds.

Get over yourself. You call what was being said partisan pettiness but this is dripping with it. No one said we were upset with the reaction of the military. I infact said it was great they got done so quickly. What I'm pissed about are these blatant phot ops when the government has done next to nothing.

Frankly, yes, I would ask for Harper's reciept is for the gold medal game as I asked for Chretien's when the Allstar Game was in Toronto. The Prime Minister's job isn't to go to hockey games, it's to RUN THE COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!

How hard is this a concept to grasp?

[capricorn]

You're the one that brought up the Haitian earthquake as an example of Harper's great skills.

No. It was me. And yes, his response is a reflection of leadership skills. Sucks, eh?

[nicky10013]

No. It was me. And yes, his response is a reflection of leadership skills. Sucks, eh?

Partisanship isn't leadership. Sorry.

[capricorn]

No one said we were upset with the reaction of the military. I infact said it was great they got done so quickly. What I'm pissed about are these blatant phot ops when the government has done next to nothing.

The military does not act without instructions from the government, and that includes the PM. It also includes coordination between the various ministries, also through Ministers. That's how things work.