For those fed up with Harper's undemocratic behavior, tell your MP

[nicky10013]

Exactly. So don't go around telling Canadians they should care about this if they don't. It works both ways. And some lame-ass facebook group doesn't mean a damn thing.

Nope. Didn't join any group. Didn't know such group even existed.

I never said Canadians SHOULD care. I've expressed my indignation and when the polls came out I simply stated they DID care. Never did I say Canadians should do anything. The only people telling others to shut up is Conservatives which has been happening a lot, lately.

Edited January 8, 2010 by nicky10013

[Alta4ever]

I never said Canadians SHOULD care. I've expressed my indignation and when the polls came out I simply stated they DID care. Never did I say Canadians should do anything. The only people telling others to shut up is Conservatives which has been happening a lot, lately.

Quote and cite of a conservative MP saying such a thing please.

[DrGreenthumb]

You can get thousands of people to sign up for anything on Facebook.

Oh really how many have joined the "I support Prorogation site?" I think 160 or so. A few less than the near 100,000 already on the anti-prorogue site eh?

[nicky10013]

Quote and cite of a conservative MP saying such a thing please.

I was talking about conservative posters on this website. But if you want an example, I think Harper shutting down parliament is a pretty blatant way of telling Canadians to shut up and not question him.

[msdogfood]

c'mon Simple... Harper danced around the question... what were his reasons? Why expect people to wade through the CBC year-end interview videos (2) waiting for the King to apprise his fiefdom. C'mon Simple... what were the stated Harper reasons for his latest perogy run?

very true!!!

[msdogfood]

Nope. Anyone who's engaged enough in the process to post in a political forum is far different than the general public. The general public cares more about core issues. Like the economy, etc. Not a perfectly legitimate parlaimentary procedure provided for in our constitution.

i agree

[msdogfood]

Nope. Anyone who's engaged enough in the process to post in a political forum is far different than the general public. The general public cares more about core issues. Like the economy, etc. Not a perfectly legitimate parlaimentary procedure provided for in our constitution.

but all of Canada cares look at the press they are NOT happy at all!!

[Alta4ever]

I was talking about conservative posters on this website. But if you want an example, I think Harper shutting down parliament is a pretty blatant way of telling Canadians to shut up and not question him.

As it was pointed out before no one has been censored, this isn't the war measures act, prorogation doesn't suspend any rights.

The opposition is still very much able to say what it wants, it can issue all kinds of press releases and when parliament resumes on March 3 the opposition will be able to asks the questions that are burning them up.

[msdogfood]

Conservatives can use polls to say the coalition wasn't wanted but strangely have yet to admit to polls saying that indeed, people do care about this issue.

thank you!!

[nicky10013]

As it was pointed out before no one has been censored, this isn't the war measures act, prorogation doesn't suspend any rights.

The opposition is still very much able to say what it wants, it can issue all kinds of press releases and when parliament resumes on March 3 the opposition will be able to asks the questions that are burning them up.

He's censored Hansard; the ability to get answers from the PM on parliamentary record which is bad enough.

[Alta4ever]

but all of Canada cares look at the press they are NOT happy at all!!

all of Canada you do have something that shows that Canada is 100% against the government, so far no poll released has such data. In fact all of the polls posted here today shows that more people either don't know about or aren't really following it.

[nicky10013]

but all of Canada cares look at the press they are NOT happy at all!!

Yep. A good interpretation of the Data. Admittedly a partisan source but what he says can't be ignored. I really don't like how he says people who say they haven't heard of the prorogment don't matter, but realistically its true.

http://farnwide.blogspot.com/2010/01/nobody-should-care-about-unaware.html

Nobody Should Care About The "Unaware"

Another EKOS finding, this time on prorogation, effectively mirroring today's Angus Reid poll. There are a couple additional points to consider, to fully understand just how devastating these numbers are for the Conservatives.

I know desperate apologists will seize on the "not following" segment of the electorate, to try and undermine the powerful results. Both polls show that one third of people are completely "unaware" of the prorogue debate. Not an abnormal finding, but one that needs to put into context. It is fair argument to posit that the VAST majority of the completely ignorant DON'T VOTE. It's a statement on the utterly disengaged, that segment of the population that doesn't enter into any electoral consideration. Maybe a sad commentary on the state of the country, but we all know voter turnout numbers. In other words, nobody sifting through these numbers should give any consideration. In fact, the awareness level is well above expected voter turnout, that's your pool of voters to consider, that's where the problem for the government becomes even more acute.

EKOS finds that of those with the even the slightest awareness, a full 69% oppose the government, a limp 31% support. Further, and Graves made the point as well, the strongly oppose is the largest sub group, by 2 to 1 over any alternative answer. These numbers represent landslide rejection. Another worrying sign, undecided voters oppose Harper's decision by more than 6 TO 1.

In addition, EKOS mirros Angus Reid, showing strong opposition in Ontario. Interestingly, EKOS also shows the highest resistance in all the "battleground" regions, Quebec, British Columbia and the Atlantic. 2/3rds of Canadians view Harper's decision as "undemocratic".

There is actually a VERY high level of awareness on this issue. Graves also alluded to the fact that awareness INCREASED over the polling period. If you're looking for a Conservative comfort blanket, don't look to the portion of "unaware", because they'll be equally "unaware" of their polling station location on election day. Bottomline.

Edited January 8, 2010 by nicky10013

[Alta4ever]

He's censored Hansard; the ability to get answers from the PM on parliamentary record which is bad enough.

Absurd! In march when the house sits are the opposition Mps not going to be able to ask questions?

[msdogfood]

January 25th. When he should be going back to work. Unlike Harper.

whan that happens Harper will look very bad!!.

[nicky10013]

Absurd! In march when the house sits are the opposition Mps not going to be able to ask questions?

The point is why can't they ask those questions now. Why is it up to the PM to decide what questions he can ask in parliament and when?

[msdogfood]

So what. There's almost 600,000 members of the 'If 1,000,000 People Join I'll Legally Change My Name To Mclovin' group.

Facebook

You can get thousands of people to sign up for anything on Facebook. In fact, usually the more stupid the topic, the more members you attract!!!!!!! <--- ended my post with many exclamation marks just like msdogfood does!!!

Let's remember, this whole prorogue issue came up because of the politicization by the opposition of a terrorist being hit in the head with shoe a couple of times. So please, save us all of your pseudo-rightous indignation. :angry:

its a lot more than being hit in the head with shoe a couple of times.

go look up the ganeva convinone than you will see canada is in deep dodo on this!!.

[Alta4ever]

Yep. A good interpretation of the Data. Admittedly a partisan source but what he says can't be ignored. I really don't like how he says people who say they haven't heard of the prorogment don't matter, but realistically its true.

http://farnwide.blogspot.com/2010/01/nobody-should-care-about-unaware.html

yippie skippy a blog, your really grasping at straws now.

Fact is those who are unaware can't be dissimissed, those that don't care about this may in fact care about other issues and there is no way to extrapolate out of the data that this is the segment does not vote that is just inferred by the author of the blog. There is no data in either of the polls to back the statements of the blogger you cited.

[Alta4ever]

The point is why can't they ask those questions now. Why is it up to the PM to decide what questions he can ask in parliament and when?

They couldn't ask them over the Christmas break either as the commons committees were not sitting.

[msdogfood]

all of Canada you do have something that shows that Canada is 100% against the government, so far no poll released has such data. In fact all of the polls posted here today shows that more people either don't know about or aren't really following it.

its the principal!

[nicky10013]

They couldn't ask them over the Christmas break either as the commons committees were not sitting.

You also can't dismiss the fact that about 40% said they don't vote. 30% said they couldn't care less. Is it a coincidence? No, the fact is that most people who don't care won't vote. A few will overlap. Some who do won't vote and vice versa. I'm not the one grasping at straws trying to undermine numbers that clearly paint a bad picture for the party I'm failingly trying to support. If the poll had been among "likely voters" it would be a completely different story. It isn't different and you've got nothing.

As for the Christmas Break, please don't make me go over this agian. That's normal. What isn't normal is questions not being allowed to take place in the house until March.

If this is all normal procedure, why would he kill his own legislation? It all has to be reintroduced and read again. It has to go through the senate again. It won't happen any quicker because the whole excuse about the senate obstructing Harper has been dismantled. So, if it's not about the senate which we know to be true, why would he need to prorogue? What reason is there behind this? They don't want to answer the questions. Why is he so afraid of going back?

[Smallc]

Do committees have to stay away during the break?

[msdogfood]

You also can't dismiss the fact that about 40% said they don't vote. 30% said they couldn't care less. Is it a coincidence? No, the fact is that most people who don't care won't vote. A few will overlap. Some who do won't vote and vice versa. I'm not the one grasping at straws trying to undermine numbers that clearly paint a bad picture for the party I'm failingly trying to support. If the poll had been among "likely voters" it would be a completely different story. It isn't different and you've got nothing.

As for the Christmas Break, please don't make me go over this agian. That's normal. What isn't normal is questions not being allowed to take place in the house until March.

If this is all normal procedure, why would he kill his own legislation? It all has to be reintroduced and read again. It has to go through the senate again. It won't happen any quicker because the whole excuse about the senate obstructing Harper has been dismantled. So, if it's not about the senate which we know to be true, why would he need to prorogue? What reason is there behind this? They don't want to answer the questions. Why is he so afraid of going back?

The PMO is worried that something is ht so he does not want to get scored that's why.

[msdogfood]

Do committees have to stay away during the break?

yes!

[nicky10013]

Do committees have to stay away during the break?

Yup. All committees barred until March.

[Alta4ever]

The point is why can't they ask those questions now. Why is it up to the PM to decide what questions he can ask in parliament and when?

Even if Parliament wasn't prorogued they still couldn't ask those questions today, because parliament was going to sit until January 25th anyway.