2 PC MLA's defect to Wildrose Alliance

Alta4ever · January 19, 2010

Wildrose is centre left like the Castro brothers are right wing idealogues.

The Wildrose is what The Pc's were in '71.

Jack Weber · January 19, 2010

The Wildrose is what The Pc's were in '71.

So what?

Kooks are kooks....And Albertan kooks are funniest of all...

Jerry J. Fortin · January 19, 2010

So what?

Kooks are kooks....And Albertan kooks are funniest of all...

Nothing smarter than an Ontario Liberal. You could come out here and teach!

Jack Weber · January 19, 2010

Nothing smarter than an Ontario Liberal. You could come out here and teach!

Who said I'm a (L)liberal???

Kooks on the left are just as nutty....And funny!!!!

fellowtraveller · January 19, 2010

What proof do you have of this, do you know the man have you met the man? Quit spouting on things you know nothing about.

What proof do I have that Morton is a grotesque social Neanderthal and hardcore evengelical Christian, backed by the worst of the nutcase churches who tried a George Bush lookalike campaign to get their man in as Premier? The public record. It is why he lost the leadership campaign, the only reason that Stelmach swept the last ballot when it looked like the preferential system was going to stop Dinning and give it to this odious, disgusting human being. ..... many Albertans who were cardcarrying members of other parties, many Albertans who had never voted on anything came out, paid their $5 and made sure this creep Morton didn't win.

It was one of Albertas finest hours, and if Morton ends up as Premier it will guarantee a loss for whatever Party he leads.

Jack Weber · January 19, 2010

What proof do I have that Morton is a grotesque social Neanderthal and hardcore evengelical Christian, backed by the worst of the nutcase churches who tried a George Bush lookalike campaign to get their man in as Premier? The public record. It is why he lost the leadership campaign, the only reason that Stelmach swept the last ballot when it looked like the preferential system was going to stop Dinning and give it to this odious, disgusting human being. ..... many Albertans who were cardcarrying members of other parties, many Albertans who had never voted on anything came out, paid their $5 and made sure this creep Morton didn't win.

It was one of Albertas finest hours, and if Morton ends up as Premier it will guarantee a loss for whatever Party he leads.

Are you suggesting that Lee Atwater/Carl Rove types are running political campaigns for hard line right wing candidates in Alberta?

fellowtraveller · January 19, 2010

Professionals run campaigns for parties everywhere, is that some kind of news to you?

Morton would actually have done much better with better advice, his Prolife, anti-woman stance would have been best kept in the closet with his pictures of crossdressers until after he won. Same for the proud and vocal advocacy from many pulpits, that ultimately cost him plenty of votes but more importantly it rallied people who usually are apathetic.

Jack Weber · January 19, 2010

Professionals run campaigns for parties everywhere, is that some kind of news to you?

Morton would actually have done much better with better advice, his Prolife, anti-woman stance would have been best kept in the closet with his pictures of crossdressers until after he won. Same for the proud and vocal advocacy from many pulpits, that ultimately cost him plenty of votes but more importantly it rallied people who usually are apathetic.

I guess I should have used a because I'm not shocked at any hard line,right wing political campaigns tactics...Or any other campaign,for that matter.

The righties do seem to like to go for the Atwateresque cheap shots...At least,it seems so....

Jerry J. Fortin · January 21, 2010

The Wildrose folks have a different sort of way of looking at things. Not quite like 70's Tory attitude, but definitely to the right of where we are now.

Alta4ever · January 22, 2010

The Wildrose folks have a different sort of way of looking at things. Not quite like 70's Tory attitude, but definitely to the right of where we are now.

Well thats not hard since PC's are as far left as the Liberals.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Alta4ever

Jerry J. Fortin · January 26, 2010

Well thats not hard since PC's are as far left as the Liberals.

I certainly don't see it that way. In my view the PC's are just moving to the centre, to where the big demographics are shown to be. On the other hand the citizens seem to be moving away from that defined centre. The Wildrose folks appear to have gauged correctly that Albertans want something different than what the numbers are saying and have begun to format a right wing strategy.

Alta4ever · January 27, 2010

I certainly don't see it that way. In my view the PC's are just moving to the centre, to where the big demographics are shown to be. On the other hand the citizens seem to be moving away from that defined centre. The Wildrose folks appear to have gauged correctly that Albertans want something different than what the numbers are saying and have begun to format a right wing strategy.

How so alberta's government is the biggest and most centralized in Canada, that doesn't make them centerist that puts them solidly on the left. Ed campaigned on liberal party platform when he went for the leadership. He even has go to land slide annie for advice. You would not find much difference between the Stelmach PC's and the Doer NDP's.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Alta4ever

Jerry J. Fortin · January 28, 2010

How so alberta's government is the biggest and most centralized in Canada, that doesn't make them centerist that puts them solidly on the left. Ed campaigned on liberal party platform when he went for the leadership. He even has go to land slide annie for advice. You would not find much difference between the Stelmach PC's and the Doer NDP's.

The PC dynasty has reigned supreme in this province for very nearly four decades. Over that time, the party and the people have changed in Alberta. All along that journey through time, the government has provided that which the public desired, when they could, and did what they had to do when they could not. However their time has come because they are not able to formulate a positive vision for the future. The party has spawned a raging bureaucracy filled with the followers and friends of the party. They have grown very fat at the public trough. So much so that they are unable move freely burdened as they are with all of that fat at the expense of the public. That fat is composed of lobby efforts, freebies and reeks of corporate governance. Knowing this the party took a sharp turn and it bit the hand that feeds it just to change the public perception. This worked for the public, but the owner of the hand responded in a very predictable way. Now the entire province will be made to pay the price.

So here we are. Another boom and bust cycle has come and gone and we must deal once again with the aftermath. This time we really don't have anybody to blame but ourselves. Its an internal thing, and we needed to learn this lesson. Any viable alternative to the current government must be able to chart a course out of our current problems because this government simply cannot. The Wildrose folks say they have the answers, but that just isn't true. It will take all of us to solve the problems that we have. We need to work backwards before we can go forward. We need to decide what programs and services we desire, then redesign a revenue stream to pay for them and this is no small task. We simply cannot spend more than we have, the government cannot borrow money and have the people foot the bill. We have been down that path before and we know where it goes. Its time that we break the cycle by doing things differently.

Alta4ever · January 28, 2010

The PC dynasty has reigned supreme in this province for very nearly four decades. Over that time, the party and the people have changed in Alberta. All along that journey through time, the government has provided that which the public desired, when they could, and did what they had to do when they could not. However their time has come because they are not able to formulate a positive vision for the future. The party has spawned a raging bureaucracy filled with the followers and friends of the party. They have grown very fat at the public trough. So much so that they are unable move freely burdened as they are with all of that fat at the expense of the public. That fat is composed of lobby efforts, freebies and reeks of corporate governance. Knowing this the party took a sharp turn and it bit the hand that feeds it just to change the public perception. This worked for the public, but the owner of the hand responded in a very predictable way. Now the entire province will be made to pay the price.

So here we are. Another boom and bust cycle has come and gone and we must deal once again with the aftermath. This time we really don't have anybody to blame but ourselves. Its an internal thing, and we needed to learn this lesson. Any viable alternative to the current government must be able to chart a course out of our current problems because this government simply cannot. The Wildrose folks say they have the answers, but that just isn't true. It will take all of us to solve the problems that we have. We need to work backwards before we can go forward. We need to decide what programs and services we desire, then redesign a revenue stream to pay for them and this is no small task. We simply cannot spend more than we have, the government cannot borrow money and have the people foot the bill. We have been down that path before and we know where it goes. Its time that we break the cycle by doing things differently.

The problem was that we elected people who couldn't say no, they turned on the tap and let it flow. After the debt was paid off, they didn't have a vision, no reason to govern, except to govern, no vision no dream. They just spun their tires. They did move to the centre, and then kept going to the left. When the leadership race race happened, instead of requiring that people hold a membership for so long in the party to have voting rights they opened it up to everyone, which ment liberal and NDPers were picking the conservative leader not the pc's. It is very much there fault for drifting to the left and leading us back into this mess. They were forgiven once under Getty, but Ed his legacy will be the end of the PC dynasty. Just like a recession is a market correction, so to will this recession be the Alberta correction of moving the government back to the centre right.

Jerry J. Fortin · February 1, 2010

The problem was that we elected people who couldn't say no, they turned on the tap and let it flow. After the debt was paid off, they didn't have a vision, no reason to govern, except to govern, no vision no dream. They just spun their tires. They did move to the centre, and then kept going to the left. When the leadership race race happened, instead of requiring that people hold a membership for so long in the party to have voting rights they opened it up to everyone, which ment liberal and NDPers were picking the conservative leader not the pc's. It is very much there fault for drifting to the left and leading us back into this mess. They were forgiven once under Getty, but Ed his legacy will be the end of the PC dynasty. Just like a recession is a market correction, so to will this recession be the Alberta correction of moving the government back to the centre right.

Which will solve nothing other than appeasing the right.

Alta4ever · February 1, 2010

Which will solve nothing other than appeasing the right.

It will solve alot more then the liberals or NDP could ever hope or want to do typically they create more problems.

ToadBrother · February 1, 2010

The problem was that we elected people who couldn't say no, they turned on the tap and let it flow. After the debt was paid off, they didn't have a vision, no reason to govern, except to govern, no vision no dream. They just spun their tires. They did move to the centre, and then kept going to the left. When the leadership race race happened, instead of requiring that people hold a membership for so long in the party to have voting rights they opened it up to everyone, which ment liberal and NDPers were picking the conservative leader not the pc's. It is very much there fault for drifting to the left and leading us back into this mess. They were forgiven once under Getty, but Ed his legacy will be the end of the PC dynasty. Just like a recession is a market correction, so to will this recession be the Alberta correction of moving the government back to the centre right.

Is there any evidence that large numbrs of NDPers and Liberals did any of this?

fellowtraveller · February 1, 2010

Is there any evidence that large numbrs of NDPers and Liberals did any of this?

First. let me point oput that the place being discussed is Alberta, so large numbers of Libs/NDP would be an oxymoron.

Evidence? Don't know of any specific because nobody asked party affiliation when registering, but I do know there was a) a major viral campaign to get out the vote when it became clear that Morton might get elected. Not just the Tory vote, but the vote by everybody and there were huge lineups that had been absent on the first ballot, and the people in them were not all Tories.

It was actually one of Albertas better moments, rejecting the swine Morton in particular.

This is part of the backlash.

Jerry J. Fortin · February 3, 2010

It will solve alot more then the liberals or NDP could ever hope or want to do typically they create more problems.

Just a minute, how do you reach that conclusion when the last person in this province to have seen a Liberal government would be nearly 100 years old. The reality is that you are making an assumption, and by jumping to conclusions you find yourself making these kind of statements. In truth the Liberals or the NDP have NO history of government in living memory. That said, I don't see them on the political horizon anytime soon.

The simple truth is that the WRAP folks represent the best chance to rid ourselves of the PC dynasty. The down side is that we are looking at replacing the right wing with another right wing. The end result will probably be that we fly in circles and achieve nothing.

Alta4ever · February 4, 2010

Just a minute, how do you reach that conclusion when the last person in this province to have seen a Liberal government would be nearly 100 years old. The reality is that you are making an assumption, and by jumping to conclusions you find yourself making these kind of statements. In truth the Liberals or the NDP have NO history of government in living memory. That said, I don't see them on the political horizon anytime soon.

Considering we have both parties talking points and putting forth their vision of Alberta and are able to judge the leadership of both party leaders yes we can see what a liberal or NDP government would look like in this province. It would not be pretty.

Jerry J. Fortin · February 6, 2010

Considering we have both parties talking points and putting forth their vision of Alberta and are able to judge the leadership of both party leaders yes we can see what a liberal or NDP government would look like in this province. It would not be pretty.

I am not sure about that. I am sure that neither political party stands a snowballs chance in hell of forming a government. I think they know this as well, don't you? That being the case they are not very damned serious about their policy formulation. Most of their stuff is designed to draw folks into their idealism, nothing more. The WRAP folks are the only real alternative in Alberta.

Topaz · February 9, 2010

I'm just wondering if/when the Wildrose does go to Ottawa, when will Harper join them??

Jerry J. Fortin · February 9, 2010

I'm just wondering if/when the Wildrose does go to Ottawa, when will Harper join them??

They are only a provincial party. At least right now.

wyly · February 10, 2010

They are only a provincial party. At least right now.

likely to be sent into political exile now that their leader expressed outrage at the budget handing over a couple billion to healthcare...she showed her true self and her disdain for Medicare, now that we all know what she thinks her future is done, don't come between a Canadian and their universal healthcare or even threaten to if you want a political future....healthcare is the issue the PC's know the WR and Smith will self destruct...

Hydraboss · February 11, 2010

likely to be sent into political exile now that their leader expressed outrage at the budget handing over a couple billion to healthcare...she showed her true self and her disdain for Medicare, now that we all know what she thinks her future is done, don't come between a Canadian and their universal healthcare or even threaten to if you want a political future....healthcare is the issue the PC's know the WR and Smith will self destruct...

Actually, I'm hearing quite the opposite. It would seem that there are a lot of people are pissed at Special Ed's inability to reign in spending. The health care spending issue has been put forth by opposition as currently at 20% increase year over year (completely unsustainable), and wiping out the $1 billion dollar shortfall in Alberta Health Services has raised the question of how did the "superboard" manage to get into such a mess in the first place and what guarantee is there that they will not simply go there again. Special Ed couldn't even get it right on the news tonight, claiming the 6% and 4.5% increases were stable (but got the number of years of each wrong). The man is nothing more than a bobblehead (watch him sometime).

Even the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation came out both barrels blazing against Ed, and their opinion is rather well respected in a province that cut-cut-cut and went through the pain of paying down what they owed and balancing everything in the 90's.

Ted Morton was brought in only to re-attract the right wing in this province, but I highly doubt it will have much effect since there is a better alternative for those voters in the WRA. I believe there will be a major shift in Alberta politics in the very near future that will see the PC's get hammered from both the left and right. This province is not known for being "centrist". The WRA will take the votes on the right, and the Lib's will take the left. The NDP has never been a threat to anything other than the phone booth on the corner where they hold their caucus meetings.

And I strongly believe that there are more right-leaning voters in this province than left.