Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Posted January 10, 2010 they will have to atone for their actions in the next election, that is good enough. There is nothing on the books with respect to this. We all know that, so why is this an issue? Is anyone advocating that there should be some legislative effort to clearly define such rules of behavior for politicians? Is it likely you could even get a politician to submit such a bill before the house? Right now, in Alberta, the people are rejecting Ed. They have no way to remove him, but they still want to voice their opinions against him. Some of those folks also happen to be MLA's. The PC party has dominated Alberta for more than three decades and has since moved from its right origins to a more centrist position, and the people haven't moved. This is still a right sided group of citizens and they will have what they want. That is to say the Wildrose folks are coming. They are hot on the political trail and first at the polls. The days are indeed numbered for the PC Party of Alberta. Quote
Wild Bill Posted January 10, 2010 Report Posted January 10, 2010 The PC party has dominated Alberta for more than three decades and has since moved from its right origins to a more centrist position, and the people haven't moved. This is still a right sided group of citizens and they will have what they want. That is to say the Wildrose folks are coming. They are hot on the political trail and first at the polls. The days are indeed numbered for the PC Party of Alberta. And that's democracy! It doesn't matter if you like it or not. The people know what they want and they are going to get it. Albertans just seem to be more proactive than most other Canadians in not accepting what they are force fed. If none of the party offerings matches their wants then they form their own! As opposed to what we see with other provinces and even Ottawa, where the existing parties usually try to rig the choices so that when it really counts no one has certain options for which to vote. All the parties will be on the same side. Sadly, usually the people just go along with it. It's like the old joke about how do you get 50 Canadians out of your pool. You simply ask politely "Canadians! Would you please be so nice as to leave my pool?" They will always courteously oblige. Hell, they would obey even if it actually was THEIR pool! Maybe not if they were Albertans, however. I respect that! It is an important contribution to the character of Canada that I hope spreads eventually to the rest of the population. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 11, 2010 Author Report Posted January 11, 2010 And that's democracy! It doesn't matter if you like it or not. The people know what they want and they are going to get it. Albertans just seem to be more proactive than most other Canadians in not accepting what they are force fed. If none of the party offerings matches their wants then they form their own! As opposed to what we see with other provinces and even Ottawa, where the existing parties usually try to rig the choices so that when it really counts no one has certain options for which to vote. All the parties will be on the same side. Sadly, usually the people just go along with it. It's like the old joke about how do you get 50 Canadians out of your pool. You simply ask politely "Canadians! Would you please be so nice as to leave my pool?" They will always courteously oblige. Hell, they would obey even if it actually was THEIR pool! Maybe not if they were Albertans, however. I respect that! It is an important contribution to the character of Canada that I hope spreads eventually to the rest of the population. Don' hold your breath on that! Quote
fellowtraveller Posted January 14, 2010 Report Posted January 14, 2010 Right now, in Alberta, the people are rejecting Ed. Dream on. The Calgary wing is throwing toys from their pram, the same thing they have been doing since their boy Jim Dinning lost the leadership. And the Wildrose just got a major, major kick in the crotch...... Farmer Ed reorganized cabinetand the fascist evangelical swine Ted Morton not only did not cross the floor as had been prayed for by the Calgary PC mafia and WRA, he got promoted and has said he is sticking with Ed. It's over. Oh the WRA will gain a couple of seats, but it is over. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted January 14, 2010 Report Posted January 14, 2010 yup...six of one half dozen of the other...rats fleeing a sinking ship all trying to save their pensions and the Alberta simpletons will never figure it out that's what it's all about... it'll be a while yet to the next election it'll be too funny if the conservatives recover and those ship jumping opportunists all lose their pensions...it's a sure thing an election issue will be the wildrose leaders open opposition to medicare... Your bigotry is bottomless. Thank you for identifying yourself so clearly, so often. Quote The government should do something.
Wild Bill Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 Dream on. The Calgary wing is throwing toys from their pram, the same thing they have been doing since their boy Jim Dinning lost the leadership. And the Wildrose just got a major, major kick in the crotch...... Farmer Ed reorganized cabinetand the fascist evangelical swine Ted Morton not only did not cross the floor as had been prayed for by the Calgary PC mafia and WRA, he got promoted and has said he is sticking with Ed. It's over. Oh the WRA will gain a couple of seats, but it is over. The actions of one man are enough to totally kill a political movement? I'm not in Alberta but I find it hard to believe that the entire Wild Rose party lives or dies on the fortunes of Ted Morton! I had the impression it was all about philosophy and principles, that the PC's under Ed had swung left but much of their membership remained where they were! Sure seems like Ed's folks made a big marketing mistake to me. You may not like their principles but that doesn't change how they think! Once again, I'm struck by how the left tends to deal with individuals and personalities, demonizing specific opponents in their arguments, often with ad hominem attacks. The right tends to deal with principles, sharing an overall philosophy. This is a generalization to be sure but there does seem to be something too it. A person of the "right" would likely never conceive of "following the leader" like sheep. It's their individualism that brings them to more right wing parties. It seems to have been specific actions on the part of Ed's government that upset them and caused them to pull their support. It's obvious that Ed and his people misread the feelings of their support base and because of that they have lost much of it. It will take more than Ted Morton to get it back! Maybe they had their own agenda and thought they could "steer" their membership. Maybe they were just arrogantly ignorant. Who knows? Whatever they did, they have paid a price. Even if they hang on to power next election it likely will be with nowhere near the majorities they have historically enjoyed. It's interesting to watch a party in power create its own opposition! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
fellowtraveller Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 had the impression it was all about philosophy and principles, that the PC's under Ed had swung left but much of their membership remained where they were! Sure seems like Ed's folks made a big marketing mistake to me. You were wrong. You have to undertsand what happened at the last leadership election, the Calagry Cabal that has run Alberta forever got got with their willies hanging out, it was a big big surprise that their hired man Jim Dinning lost. Two things happened really: 1) the corporate huckster lost and 2) the fascist evangelical swine Morton also got specifically and decisively slapped downbeaten by many ordinary people who joined the PC party for a day and voted for Ed Stelmach. Stelmach owes as much to (non-PC) Albertans of horror at the though of Morton in control than they were at the thought of Farmer Ed at the helm of the tractor. Stelmach has one massive defect: he is not from corporate Calagry. None of this has ssat well at all with the Calagry Cabal and this is their reaction. That is why the non-defection of Morton is important, the WRA would have much more credibility with him. Quote The government should do something.
Alta4ever Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 You were wrong. You have to undertsand what happened at the last leadership election, the Calagry Cabal that has run Alberta forever got got with their willies hanging out, it was a big big surprise that their hired man Jim Dinning lost. Two things happened really: 1) the corporate huckster lost and 2) the fascist evangelical swine Morton also got specifically and decisively slapped downbeaten by many ordinary people who joined the PC party for a day and voted for Ed Stelmach. Stelmach owes as much to (non-PC) Albertans of horror at the though of Morton in control than they were at the thought of Farmer Ed at the helm of the tractor. Stelmach has one massive defect: he is not from corporate Calagry. None of this has ssat well at all with the Calagry Cabal and this is their reaction. That is why the non-defection of Morton is important, the WRA would have much more credibility with him. Wild Bill has got it right, I along with most everyone I know feels the same, I didn't leave the Pc's the Pc's left me. The leadership vote was on a preferential ballot means ed wasn't everyones first choice he only won after the second choice on Morton's ballots put Ed in front of Dinning. He is Alberta Stephan Dion, everyones second choice. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
fellowtraveller Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 Wild Bill has got it right, I along with most everyone I know feels the same, I didn't leave the Pc's the Pc's left me. The leadership vote was on a preferential ballot means ed wasn't everyones first choice he only won after the second choice on Morton's ballots put Ed in front of Dinning. He is Alberta Stephan Dion, everyones second choice. Translation: both guys from Calgary lost. Quote The government should do something.
Alta4ever Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 Translation: both guys from Calgary lost. Translation nobody won. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 (edited) Oh good. Now maybe after Alberta leaves, it can split in half too. Edited January 15, 2010 by Smallc Quote
wyly Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 Oh good. Now maybe after Alberta leaves, it can split in half too. more likely urban vs rural... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Smallc Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 Maybe we should all just split up so every man can run around fighting for himself. I'm sure some Wild Rose voters would be happy. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 more likely urban vs rural... Why in hell you do bother to post here you know nothing of Alberta politics. This is not Rural/urban split, considering the first riding won under the Wildrose banner was an urban riding held by the tories since 71. Stick to the other topics you seem to know nothing about like AGW. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Jack Weber Posted January 16, 2010 Report Posted January 16, 2010 Why in hell you do bother to post here you know nothing of Alberta politics. This is not Rural/urban split, considering the first riding won under the Wildrose banner was an urban riding held by the tories since 71. Stick to the other topics you seem to know nothing about like AGW. I do it simply to watch Albertan kooks bitch and moan..... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2010 Report Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) I do it simply to watch Albertan kooks bitch and moan..... butt out, even with the worst government we've had since the eighties its still a better province then you've managed in that time. Edited January 16, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Jack Weber Posted January 16, 2010 Report Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) butt out, even with the worst government we've had since the eighties its still a better province then you've managed in that time. Aw...Don't cry...You're entertaining and you don't even realize it... Just make sure the oil,gas,and,cattle's to market on time,'kay? Edited January 16, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wild Bill Posted January 16, 2010 Report Posted January 16, 2010 You were wrong. You have to undertsand what happened at the last leadership election, the Calagry Cabal that has run Alberta forever got got with their willies hanging out, it was a big big surprise that their hired man Jim Dinning lost. Two things happened really: 1) the corporate huckster lost and 2) the fascist evangelical swine Morton also got specifically and decisively slapped downbeaten by many ordinary people who joined the PC party for a day and voted for Ed Stelmach. Stelmach owes as much to (non-PC) Albertans of horror at the though of Morton in control than they were at the thought of Farmer Ed at the helm of the tractor. Stelmach has one massive defect: he is not from corporate Calagry. None of this has ssat well at all with the Calagry Cabal and this is their reaction. That is why the non-defection of Morton is important, the WRA would have much more credibility with him. Sounds to me like you're explaining why the people who DON'T vote PC care about Ed or Ted! You still haven't said anything about the fact that a party's support base feels one way and the party left them behind by swinging in a very different direction. You keep talking about figureheads, about people supporting this man or that man, as if they were all Jim Jones followers bellying up to the KoolAid pitcher. In my opinion, such a view rarely has any connection to reality. At least, not since the days of Trudeaumania. Charisma can be important but we have LOTS of boring PM's and provincial premiers. From what I've seen in the media, there's no way on earth you could claim that Ed has had the same approach to governing as did Ralph Klein. That may please you if your own values are more "left" but so what? That has ZERO to do with how all the people that liked things the way they were feel about continuing to support the PC's! Ed is a lefty's dream! A PC party premier that governs like a lefty! So even though your leftwing choice may never win, at least the guy who did win will govern that way anyhow! This is just playing political games to ensure that people who disagree with you have no electoral choice. It's like the federal situation, where those of us who supported Reform now find that the CPC is the same as the old PC's, that we had bailed on twenty years ago! We continue to vote CPC not because we like them but because we dislike the other guys more! Sometimes you can get away with it but it ALWAYS breeds resentment and encourages the growth of new parties, like Reform and now Wild Rose. Frankly, I'm very surprised that Ed and his backers actually thought they could get away with it in a province like Alberta! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Posted January 17, 2010 Albertans are headed in droves to the Wildrose tent displays. That may or may not translate into hard support but at least initially it DOES translate into a drop in PC support. Ed will remain the Premiere until the last minute of his mandate. Even he has read the writing on the wall, they are done like dinner, and we all know it. This is the end of the multi-decade cycle of Alberta politics. We will pick a new direction to travel in. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted January 18, 2010 Report Posted January 18, 2010 You still haven't said anything about the fact that a party's support base feels one way and the party left them behind by swinging in a very different direction. Yes, I did, and it is summmarized in two simple, easy to undertsand words: Calgary crybabies. For the first time in 30 years, you are not in charge of everything, and this is the reaction. But, your fascist evangelical swine Morton will never win in this province. Never. Rememeber that, and conduct yourself accordingly. Quote The government should do something.
Alta4ever Posted January 18, 2010 Report Posted January 18, 2010 Yes, I did, and it is summmarized in two simple, easy to undertsand words: Calgary crybabies. For the first time in 30 years, you are not in charge of everything, and this is the reaction. But, your fascist evangelical swine Morton will never win in this province. Never. Rememeber that, and conduct yourself accordingly. What proof do you have of this, do you know the man have you met the man? Quit spouting on things you know nothing about. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Wild Bill Posted January 18, 2010 Report Posted January 18, 2010 Yes, I did, and it is summmarized in two simple, easy to undertsand words: Calgary crybabies. For the first time in 30 years, you are not in charge of everything, and this is the reaction. But, your fascist evangelical swine Morton will never win in this province. Never. Rememeber that, and conduct yourself accordingly. What do you mean by "you are not..." "your...Morton", etc? I live in Ontario! In my whole life I only spent one long weekend in Alberta, during my honeymoon! Like I say, ad hominem and all personalities... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
ToadBrother Posted January 19, 2010 Report Posted January 19, 2010 Albertans are headed in droves to the Wildrose tent displays. That may or may not translate into hard support but at least initially it DOES translate into a drop in PC support. Ed will remain the Premiere until the last minute of his mandate. Even he has read the writing on the wall, they are done like dinner, and we all know it. This is the end of the multi-decade cycle of Alberta politics. We will pick a new direction to travel in. New direction? It looks more to me like just a sharper veering to the right. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 19, 2010 Report Posted January 19, 2010 New direction? It looks more to me like just a sharper veering to the right. For this current PC government a sharp veer to the right is still centre left. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
ToadBrother Posted January 19, 2010 Report Posted January 19, 2010 For this current PC government a sharp veer to the right is still centre left. Wildrose is centre left like the Castro brothers are right wing idealogues. Quote
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