Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 If one company ownes all the stores, it's a monopoly. The question is around a government monopoly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 The question is around a government monopoly. A monopoly is a monopoly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 A monopoly is a monopoly. The writer is totally correct. As for Hardner's comment I find it naive mainstream thinking. There is no such thing as a government monopoly, only government submission to private enterprise. Probably the most powerful and gripping enterprise of all. That being an industry that has seized the weakest parts of the human condition which is addiction. The liberals can sell what they want and the conservatives can do it also - but profits from booze sales end up in the hands of a few at the detriment of many. If the liberals think that government should be in the buisness of keeping people drunk and compliant then so be it. Best just to leave it alone and perhaps stop sucking the life out of the population with tobacco, alcohol and pharma product that in reality debilitate the populace..not saying people should not alter their state of mind though toxins - but be honest about it - the selling of poisons for recreational use is a scruge and should be treated as such. Its a filthy an ammoral buisness and the government should simply stay away from it..let the gangsters carry on as per usual - good people do not sell dope or booze to enrich themselves..I find it strange that liberals want to attempt to privatize what is for the most part a system envolving a very private sphere of operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 A monopoly is a monopoly. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Mike - anything envolving this industry can not be on the up and up - It's simply to lucrative and very nasty by the very nature of the product...It's not much different than suggesting that the administration in Afghanistan sell of control of opium production...who are you going to sell such a buisness too? Only bad people live off of the misery of the common person..so how can we expect this transaction if it takes place to be honest? It's impossible...but of course they will say that part of the proceeds will go to liver damage research... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 The writer is totally correct. As for Hardner's comment I find it naive mainstream thinking. This is becoming absolutely doltish. Shady commented that the *government* monopoly on alcohol sales needed to be stopped: Posted 22 December 2009 - 10:40 AMGod I hope you're right. It's about time the Government ended their monopoly on the sale of alcohol. My point is that there is no such government monopoly. Hopefully that is clear now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Mike - anything envolving this industry can not be on the up and up - It's simply to lucrative and very nasty by the very nature of the product...It's not much different than suggesting that the administration in Afghanistan sell of control of opium production...who are you going to sell such a buisness too? Only bad people live off of the misery of the common person..so how can we expect this transaction if it takes place to be honest? It's impossible...but of course they will say that part of the proceeds will go to liver damage research... You appear to be making up an argument for me, then arguing with your Hardner point of view. I suggest something more interesting: "Be it resolved that Ontario sell opium in government-run beer stores." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Totally clear..now they understand that a few intergenerational controllers of booze productions and sales are not the government...they just think they are once the government is drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 You appear to be making up an argument for me, then arguing with your Hardner point of view. I suggest something more interesting: "Be it resolved that Ontario sell opium in government-run beer stores." No one bothers the cocaine dealer that sits with his lap to for years on end at the local bar selling the poison. No one bothers that asian student or the black rasta guy selling pounds of pot ...These substances are all legal if they were not, law enforcement would have shut these little creeps down - but they don't...dope and booze supposedly spurn on an economy. Look at all the poor people on welfare that they have strung out on all sorts of strange substances - that YOU as a tax payer pay for and do not get a cut of the profits..You would think that if they use your money to fund the war in Afghanistan that you might get a few bucks back from opium sales that you indirectly invested - opium production is up not down - I simply don't trust big buisness that displays it self as honourable when we all know they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 No one bothers the cocaine dealer that sits with his lap to for years on end at the local bar selling the poison. No one bothers that asian student or the black rasta guy selling pounds of pot ... These substances are all legal if they were not, law enforcement would have shut these little creeps down - but they don't...dope and booze supposedly spurn on an economy. Look at all the poor people on welfare that they have strung out on all sorts of strange substances - that YOU as a tax payer pay for and do not get a cut of the profits..You would think that if they use your money to fund the war in Afghanistan that you might get a few bucks back from opium sales that you indirectly invested - opium production is up not down - I simply don't trust big buisness that displays it self as honourable when we all know they are not. Is that my side of the argument or yours ? As for this: No one bothers the cocaine dealer ... Jailed Kingstonian gets two-year sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Is that my side of the argument or yours ? As for this: Jailed Kingstonian gets two-year sentence First Mike - I am not having an argument. Secondly as for the link I won't bother with it. I do know one thing - about thirty years ago I knew this white black guy..named Bob - he was a dope dealer..this was prior gangbang era..He was busted...He enteres the court and is taken aside and told "If you put some money into the fund we will drop the charges"...This Fund that if you dumped in ten grand all was well...IF this existed 30 years ago..then imagine the level of degradation that must exist at this point in time...busting a single coke dealer is simply pandering to the public - I know of a female drug runner that has infected America by bring drugs into that nation that has the full support of our system - they give her cheap houseing and from what I understand...a very nice good sized appartment - Point being..there is no will to clean up society - harm reduction...for instance is just the insertion of a dagger in a very clever and incrimental fashion...okay I will look at the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 More theatre and more overly ambitious crown attorneys trying to make a name for themselves in order to gather enough convictions to become judges. Great system we have..self serving and very status based as far as out legalists are concerned. In a nation that so prides itself on it's civility and goodness we are nothing but hypocrites...most so-called underdeveloped nations know that dope and abuse of booze crimmples and degrades a society - China knows that drugs are bad for buisness...as we saw with the executed supposed bi-polar herion smuggler. In this nation - drugs and booze and the mayhem that results are an asset to a certain class of legalists that prance about in black robes feeding off the public - It would be bad for buisness if they did what was right and maybe chopped of a hand or two..not that I advocate such a thing but I am just getting my point across. There is no will to heal society - autocannibalism rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 First Mike - I am not having an argument. Secondly as for the link I won't bother with it. I do know one thing - about thirty years ago I knew this white black guy..named Bob - he was a dope dealer..this was prior gangbang era..He was busted...He enteres the court and is taken aside and told "If you put some money into the fund we will drop the charges"...This Fund that if you dumped in ten grand all was well...IF this existed 30 years ago..then imagine the level of degradation that must exist at this point in time...busting a single coke dealer is simply pandering to the public - I know of a female drug runner that has infected America by bring drugs into that nation that has the full support of our system - they give her cheap houseing and from what I understand...a very nice good sized appartment - Point being..there is no will to clean up society - harm reduction...for instance is just the insertion of a dagger in a very clever and incrimental fashion...okay I will look at the link. Black White Bob ? That sounds like a batman villain, seriously. The rest of this sounds more cloak & dagger than dagger. If you're not having an argument, then I'll be on my way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 My point is that there is no such government monopoly. Hopefully that is clear now. Seems to me that if government grants a monopoly, it is a government run monopoly whether they run the nuts and bolts of it or not. They are setting the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Black White Bob ? That sounds like a batman villain, seriously. The rest of this sounds more cloak & dagger than dagger. If you're not having an argument, then I'll be on my way... You are a pro and you are educated and very skilled. Not much point in challenging you - remember I am decended from the old Scythians and I simply ride over the hill never to be seen again if it's a losing propostion...actually Mike - you know how lazy I am when it comes to reading the material...I would have to actually read your posts and no one is paying me for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 As I ride over the hill I will comment over my shoulder in parting. If McGinty wants to sell off the LCBO then all this stool pigeon is really doing is handing back the guise of government ownership of the industry - back to the people who actually always have owned it - all this will do is increase profits. McGuinty does what he is told just like a good little boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Sorry Mike that I am of little use to you. What did you expect? Perhaps some great inside scoop or something? You know how the system works - just colour it up a bit and play stupid - that will ensure a steady pay cheaque...as for me...I can say what I want...you can't cos' they will cut off your money supply - the LCBO...is a monopoly. You can change the stripes all you want and it will remain what it is. At least they have quaity control and you don't go blind drinking their crap...let the expert crimminals continue with what they do - they are good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) Seems to me that if government grants a monopoly, it is a government run monopoly whether they run the nuts and bolts of it or not. They are setting the rules. Hmmm... That's twisting the meaning quite a bit. Thanks for giving my brain a little exercise there. Let's see... As much as admire the original thought that came up with that one, I have to reject your idea. Government may have granted the monopoly but they don't run it. If it was ok to call such things 'government run' then any regulated industry, or possibly every legal industry could be described as such. Close, but no cigar. Edited January 4, 2010 by Michael Hardner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 You are a pro and you are educated and very skilled. Not much point in challenging you - remember I am decended from the old Scythians and I simply ride over the hill never to be seen again if it's a losing propostion...actually Mike - you know how lazy I am when it comes to reading the material...I would have to actually read your posts and no one is paying me for that. Exactly. You need to rely on your odd take on things to keep your popularity around here as high as it is. I'm trying to be positive here, as I do appreciate a poetic take on the issues of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Sorry Mike that I am of little use to you. What did you expect? Perhaps some great inside scoop or something? You know how the system works - just colour it up a bit and play stupid - that will ensure a steady pay cheaque...as for me...I can say what I want...you can't cos' they will cut off your money supply - the LCBO...is a monopoly. You can change the stripes all you want and it will remain what it is. At least they have quaity control and you don't go blind drinking their crap...let the expert crimminals continue with what they do - they are good at it. Yes, yes yes: the LCBO and the beer store are monopolies. Are they government-run monopolies ? One is, and the other one is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Hmmm... That's twisting the meaning quite a bit. Thanks for giving my brain a little exercise there. Let's see... As much as admire the original thought that came up with that one, I have to reject your idea. Government may have granted the monopoly but they don't run it. If it was ok to call such things 'government run' then any regulated industry, or possibly every legal industry could be described as such. Close, but no cigar. Any legal industry that owes its monopoly to government could be described as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 If the LCBo is to be sold, I have no doubt it would still be the Government Crown doing the buying (of the product) and the retail arm/distribution would be in the hands of private capital. Either way, the manufacturer still sells directly to the province and the royalties from sales still go to the public purse as it does in Alberta. Which means that the government is still involved and their is an illusion of privatization in Alberta. IIRC Liquor is the same price across Ontario even in the North where a Bag of 4 Ltr Milk can cost between $9 and $17. Regardless, the privatization model doesn't have alot of steam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Any legal industry that owes its monopoly to government could be described as such. The adjective in question isn't "monopoly" but "government-run". Right ? Unless you're saying "government run monopoly" is a qualifier on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 The adjective in question isn't "monopoly" but "government-run". Right ? Unless you're saying "government run monopoly" is a qualifier on its own. A monopoly means no choice and no competition. It doesn't really matter who is running it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 The problem with this plan is that it doesn't change anything for the consumer. It will make things worse. If the government of Ontario wants to get out of the alcohol business, they should not sell the whole monopoly, they should allow free enterprise, and sell off the individual locations to the highest bidder. The union can go fuck themselves. Why should a guy at a cash register get $25/hr? Privatization should not be a matter of selling a monopoly. It should be sold while the market is opened up to other licensed vendors. Otherwise, it will be like Rogers cable running your liquor store. They use their monopoly position to squeeze everybody they deal with for money, and give as little as possible. At least with government running it, they don't care about economic rationality. They don't mind not maximizing revenue -- they like to keep up appearances. If the whole monpoly goes private, in a piece, or a few regional monopolies, it will usher in a real deterioration in the quality. After all, the service part of the deal couldn't be lower unless you scanned and bagged your own booze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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