Eight Year Old Boy

[Guest American Woman]

An Omaha couple is allowing their 8-year-old son to openly live life as a girl. link

Therapists and the child’s parents say the second grade student is transgender, a medical condition where a person’s inner sense of identity doesn’t match their biological gender.

Therapists agree that forcing a person to live in a social role outside their perceived gender is damaging.

Josie was diagnosed as transgender at the age of six.

Her sex has been legally changed and she will undergo surgery and drug treatment to help her grow up as a woman.

Josie will be given drugs to prevent male adolescence and, at 12, get female hormones link

The parents were apparently (re)issued a female birth certificate.

I know there are people who feel as if they are a woman trapped in a man's body or vice versa, but I'm wondering if a child is sexually aware enough to make such a decision. It seems as if the therapists are behind the parents' decision, but the child, "Josie," won't be allowed to continue attending the catholic school "Joey" was attending as a boy.

The fact is, physically he's still a boy. I would think that would be confusing for a child to deal with, too. And what about the new girl friends he makes, will they be informed that Josie is physically a boy?

I sympathize with people with gender problems and support their decisions to live life in a way that they feel is best for them, but I'm just wondering if some day this child will feel differently. Seems to me it's a rash decision to be making before puberty hits.

Thoughts?

[bush_cheney2004]

What is a "boy"? Are you focusing only on physical attributes? The GLBT movement is in part about breaking down such binary thinking. Like race, gender is the next construct that needs to be deconstructed.

[DrGreenthumb]

what a pile of shit! Those "therapists" should be fired. Furthermore, I think they may need therapy themselves. The parents are idiots, and the child should be put in foster care, preferably in a home with parents with at least two brain cells between them.

[Guest American Woman]

I can't believe that the parents were actually issued a new birth certificate listing him as a female. Who makes a decision like that; I'd like to know who has the power/authority to do that.

I'd also like to know how a child just old enough to talk distinguishes oneself as a boy or girl other than physically/what they are told. A young child doesn't know that girls like pink or like to play with dolls etc. unless they are told that. So did this child think he was a girl because of his likes/dislikes? As I said earlier, a very young child really has no concept of sex/sexuality. I find it odd that the parents point to his wrapping his toy soldiers in a blanket and rocking them as some sort of evidence of his psychologically being a girl. Plenty of little boys like to wrap things up and rock them too, which is what their fathers (hopefully) do as a parent.

I have to wonder if being a girl now, dressing up and presenting himself as a girl, is akin to role playing/dress-up, which is something children like to do. I wonder if this is just something fun for him to do. The child is a child and as such isn't fully developed mentally, physically, or emotionally, so for adults to be making such a drastic decision based on what the child says, before puberty, seems questionable at best.

Edited December 20, 2009 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

Probably an hermaphrodite who was already subject to an arbitrary decision once at birth, which is just being corrected now.

Otherwise I can't understand it. It would seem totally messed up.

[Guest American Woman]

Probably an hermaphrodite who was already subject to an arbitrary decision once at birth, which is just being corrected now.

It's not a case of being a hermaphrodite; it's strictly a trans-gender case.

[Shwa]

I have a bit of a problem with the parent's decision making process, but gender identity and sexual awareness happen fairly early in childhood and it is quite conceivable that the process happens well before 8 years of age. It seems that the mother has taken steps to address an anomoly that she has found with her child and this is her middle child, so it is not like she doesn't have experience with young children.

Is there a biological effect that is causing this impression in the child like detectable hormonal changes or differences? Was there some event that changed the psychological impression of the child when they were in the formative stages of identifying with a gender?

It doesn't appear from the story that the parents are anything but loving. They don't appear to have some obvious GLBT agenda, even though they have had contact with experts in the field. And is what they are asking - that the child be referred to and dressed as a 'she' - is that too far out of line? It might be their secret hope that they let the child run with it for a year to two and see if the condition peters out, so to speak.

So I am curious AW, if your child presented themself like this child has, what would you do?

[Sir Bandelot]

what a pile of shit! Those "therapists" should be fired. Furthermore, I think they may need therapy themselves. The parents are idiots, and the child should be put in foster care, preferably in a home with parents with at least two brain cells between them.

I agree it sounds completely insane, though maybe we don't have all the facts yet.

Still, makes me wonder, whats the bleepin hurry to transform this young child into a female, with drugs or perhaps surgical intervention? No rush, let nature take it's natural course.

People change as they age and grow up, perhaps whatever is perceived as unusually feminine about the boy is just part of his natural biology, and might right itself in time. And if not, let him/her make their own informed decision to change gender, as an adult. That's my view, they should just relax and not worry about it.

Oh well, only in America...

Edited December 21, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[Guest American Woman]

Oh well, only in America...

Evidently not.

Some clinics in Australia, Canada, Germany, the U.S., and elsewhere have started to offer treatment to transgendered teens in order to prevent their onset of puberty. The medication is prohibited by law in the UK. link

[Guest American Woman]

I have a bit of a problem with the parent's decision making process, but gender identity and sexual awareness happen fairly early in childhood and it is quite conceivable that the process happens well before 8 years of age. It seems that the mother has taken steps to address an anomoly that she has found with her child and this is her middle child, so it is not like she doesn't have experience with young children.

I first ran across the Joey/Josie story in a magazine I was reading, and when I did a search for information online, the two articles I cited came up and I assumed they were about the same child, but they're not. The similarities are amazing, right down to not being able to attend the school of their choice, but the first is a middle child and the second is the oldest of two, the younger having been adopted.

Is there a biological effect that is causing this impression in the child like detectable hormonal changes or differences? Was there some event that changed the psychological impression of the child when they were in the formative stages of identifying with a gender?

I have those same questions. I wonder if there could be reasons why the children (and evidently these two cases aren't isolated incidents) perceive themselves to be the opposite sex. I find it interesting that the parents talk about "boy toys" and "girl toys," because I think children like a variety of toys and has nothing to do with their "sexual identity." Same with colors. Seems as if the parents talk in terms of "girl colors" and "boy colors."

It doesn't appear from the story that the parents are anything but loving. They don't appear to have some obvious GLBT agenda, even though they have had contact with experts in the field. And is what they are asking - that the child be referred to and dressed as a 'she' - is that too far out of line? It might be their secret hope that they let the child run with it for a year to two and see if the condition peters out, so to speak.

I don't question whether or not the parents are loving, but loving parents can make the wrong decisions too. But as I said, searching for more information on the topic, these two boys aren't isolated cases. In the Joey/Josie situation, at least, the parents aren't simply letting the child run with it, as they've had the birth certificate reissued to have the sex listed as "female." I find that odd.

So I am curious AW, if your child presented themself like this child has, what would you do?

For one thing, I'd want to know if there are studies that follow kids who haven't been raised as the opposite sex, and haven't had puberty prevented, and haven't taken hormones to change their physical appearance who have, as adults or adolescents, come to associate themselves with their physical sex; ie: as the sex they were born with. I think I would also refrain from referring to "boy toys" and "girl toys" and "boy colors" and "girl colors" and point out that boys and girls can all like the same things; even a lot of men have long hair and ponytails, not to mention wear jewelry. So I would try to live life without being "gender specific," and let him wear whatever colors he chose to wear; after all, girls don't always wear dresses/want to wear dresses. Some girls can't stand wearing dresses, but we don't associate that as a "boy trait."

I don't think I would want to prevent my child from going through puberty. I think I would want the child to make the decision when he is old enough. I don't think it should be my decision to make. I would like to know that everything happened as naturally as possible.

What would you do?

Edited December 21, 2009 by American Woman

[Shwa]

What would you do?

Probably exactly like what you would do and hope that it would sort itself out when the child was mature enough to understand the implications. But deffo long after puberty.

Would I ask the school to refer to him as a her or change the birth certificate? No. I don't think that is very wise. And your point about pants is very true. My daughter wore dresses or skirts on very infrequent special occasions, but grew up wearing pants. She still prefers pants and that doesn't affect her femininity at all. Heck, my boys played with dolls called GI Joes or Transformers.