Harper Government: Honest

[Born Free]

I'll tell you what else is dishonest, clipping out a part of statement and placing out of context to try to score some rhetorical point.

Let me be clear. Violating constitutional restraints on the limits of the Executive is many orders of a magnitude worse than steeling money. The current Tory government is worse than the Liberal government of Jean Chretien.

They were your words and were clipped in absolute context. You say its pretty bad and I say its more than that. Much much more. Slice it any way you weant it but neverthless its criminal...

[Born Free]

Nobody denies it. What we're saying is there are worse things.

That sir, is a lame attempt at mitigating the issue...

[Born Free]

Many Canadians disagree with Harper and his government. They don't like what he is doing. But that doesn't make Harper's government dishonest.

True. Just some of the government is...

[nicky10013]

Billion dollar?

There is no evidence that Harper's government gave any contract to any Jaffer lobby.

I never made the claim that Harper did, just that there's been allegations in the paper that she was trying to get him in. That's a HUGE problem.

Ah yes, stealing from taxpayers is less dishonest than betraying the public trust.

ToadBrother, in a democracy, any government is bound to do the opposite of what about half the population wants. Is that "betraying" the public trust?

We live in a parliamentary democracy. It is rare when half the adult population votes for the governing party - and even then, that still leaves some 40% or more who voted against.

Many Canadians disagree with Harper and his government. They don't like what he is doing. But that doesn't make Harper's government dishonest.

Well, he has been dishonest. How many things has he backtracked on, the most notorious being the tax on income trust which did huge damage to seniors savings portfolios.

Even then, there's a difference between dishonesty and unethical behaviour. They don't necessarily have to be the same, yet unethical behaviour has the potential to be far worse than just lying. If found to be lying, a politician can be kicked out of office. Big whoop. Unethical and unconstitutional behaviour can do lasting damage to democracy. I wonder how you'll feel when a Liberal PM suspends parliament to get out of a jam, because whether it's sooner or later it probably will happen.

[nicky10013]

That sir, is a lame attempt at mitigating the issue...

First of all, no one here has denied how serious stealing money is. The only person trying to spin this around and make it about money and the Liberals and the sponsorship scandal is you. Third, there ARE worse things than money being taken. It's hard for Conservatives to believe but there are more important things in terms of governance other than dollars and cents and how they're spent. There are philisophical dangers that threaten our (or any) system of governance that are far more dangerous than some idiot pilfering money. Why? Because that's what our system is. It's an idea, nothing more.

Edited April 19, 2010 by nicky10013

[nicky10013]

Secretive according to the CBC, to Michael Enright or to other Leftist fanatics.

Elsewhere for example, there were 50,000 people in Quebec City who take a different view of this.

Eyeball, you define "secretive" in a way that prejudices.

It's no secret that EVERYTHING any member of his caucus says has to be vetted through the PMO. Anybody and everybody knows that this is by far the most centralized government in history.

Combined with the refusal to comply with FOI requests makes them the most secretive.

[wyly]

It won't happen because nobody will ever be that stupid again.

uh yes they will...greed is one of the sure things in life...

[Argus]

I guess you missed the allegation that she supported a billion dollar application by her husband to the government's green job initiative. Whoops!

A billion dollars? She wrote a letter to her cousin in Simcoe County. Is Simcoe County planning on spending a billion dollars on green initiatives?

[Argus]

"Used more often than not by the Liberlas." Yes, that's true, but only because the Liberals have dominated the electoral landscape for the better part of the decade. If we're going to be honest, the biggest masters of patronage were actually Conservatives. Mulroney famously said, "you dance with the whore that brung ya." John A Macdonald had to resign due to the massive amounts of government corruption for the CPR.

I can't say anything about the times Macdonald lived in, but my perception was that Trudeau's government was the most corrupt in modern history, with Chretien's being a close second. Mulroney was no piker, but not up to their standards. Then again, he had a much less tolerant press to deal with.

Furthermore, influence peddling is a much bigger problem than just plain theft. If party people are just taking money, that's money the court can recover. A fact which not many Conservatives here like to admit to is the Liberal Party paid back the money which was stolen from the Quebec Wing

.

I assume you mean stolen BY the Quebec wing, and no, they never did. Perhaps you can dig up a cite to show otherwise.

Things like influence peddling are much harder to control and far more dangerous. Though taking money is a serious crime, stealing that money doesn't unfairly open up the policy process to larger swaths of control to unelected avenues.

Which you've already admitted happens anyway with donations to party fundraisers. All those people paying ten thousand a plate to hear Dion speak weren't there for his charisma.

[Born Free]

Mulroney was no piker, but not up to their standards. Then again, he had a much less tolerant press to deal with.

Funny stuff. You should write for Leno...