Wild Bill Posted November 27, 2009 Report Posted November 27, 2009 Here's a link from the National Post about the Brown trial in Caledonia: http://www.nationalpost.com/most-popular/story.html?id=2273320 "HAMILTON -- Recent videos of two flag-waving marches along the main street in Caledonia, passing a site that has been occupied by native protesters since 2006, were shown in court on Thursday, starkly highlighting the different reactions of police to aboriginal marchers and Caledonia residents. The videos make it appear as though the Canadian flag has been outlawed in the area by the Ontario Provincial Police." Watching the coverage on CHCH, the local TV station, has been very interesting. The lawyer for McGuinty's government has been doing some strange things. There was a video of Brown standing on his back porch, under a huge spotlight from native protesters assembled in his back yard used to make it difficult for he and his family to sleep. Brown is videotaping the natives and they are yelling at him that he is interfering with their "rights" by doing so. The government lawyer actually asked Brown if he didn't realize that he was abusing the protesters' rights. When he did so, there was a loud gasp and boos from the audience! For the lawyer to insinuate that BROWN was at fault in such a situation was incredible! I am very surprised that McGuinty has allowed himself to end up in this position. He could have bought out Brown early on in the conflict and removed him as a source of future embarrassment. Now he has succeeded in getting his two-tiered, racially-based policing policies onto the national stage, with the trial being featured not just on the local TV and paper but also the CBC-National, the National Post and others. Oh well, nobody ever said McGuinty was a rocket scientist... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
charter.rights Posted November 27, 2009 Report Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) Here's a link from the National Post about the Brown trial in Caledonia: http://www.nationalpost.com/most-popular/story.html?id=2273320 "HAMILTON -- Recent videos of two flag-waving marches along the main street in Caledonia, passing a site that has been occupied by native protesters since 2006, were shown in court on Thursday, starkly highlighting the different reactions of police to aboriginal marchers and Caledonia residents. The videos make it appear as though the Canadian flag has been outlawed in the area by the Ontario Provincial Police." Watching the coverage on CHCH, the local TV station, has been very interesting. The lawyer for McGuinty's government has been doing some strange things. There was a video of Brown standing on his back porch, under a huge spotlight from native protesters assembled in his back yard used to make it difficult for he and his family to sleep. Brown is videotaping the natives and they are yelling at him that he is interfering with their "rights" by doing so. The government lawyer actually asked Brown if he didn't realize that he was abusing the protesters' rights. When he did so, there was a loud gasp and boos from the audience! For the lawyer to insinuate that BROWN was at fault in such a situation was incredible! I am very surprised that McGuinty has allowed himself to end up in this position. He could have bought out Brown early on in the conflict and removed him as a source of future embarrassment. Now he has succeeded in getting his two-tiered, racially-based policing policies onto the national stage, with the trial being featured not just on the local TV and paper but also the CBC-National, the National Post and others. Oh well, nobody ever said McGuinty was a rocket scientist... You do realize that the Crown lawyers are "building" a case. It would be defeating for them to hang out all their laundry at once and it is only a matter of time before all the threads come together in a finely woven suit of Brown's own guilt. Edited November 27, 2009 by charter.rights Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Oleg Bach Posted November 28, 2009 Report Posted November 28, 2009 I don't know why we look at the forever gleaming and smiling McGinty as some sort of liberating liberal. Every move he makes is very similar to old school conservatism..the worst kind that plys all of it's energy towards maintaining a traditional status quo that supports big buisness and screws the rest of us into the ground - You would think that his quiet handlers had enough billions in their coffers. Is there no end to this destructive greed? Is there no end to fooling the people with this creepy little smiling stool pigeon? Quote
madmax Posted November 29, 2009 Report Posted November 29, 2009 You do realize that the Crown lawyers are "building" a case. It would be defeating for them to hang out all their laundry at once and it is only a matter of time before all the threads come together in a finely woven suit of Brown's own guilt. I'll be looking forward to your positive comments about the crown when the shoe is on the other foot and the crown is prosecuting the protestors of the DCE and other land disputes. Quote
Wild Bill Posted November 30, 2009 Report Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) I'll be looking forward to your positive comments about the crown when the shoe is on the other foot and the crown is prosecuting the protestors of the DCE and other land disputes. I normally ignore CR but I saw his quote in your post and I just can't resist. Essentially, he seems to be forgetting that my point was about the POLITICS of the situation! I find it incredible that McGuinty seems to have forgotten that. The Crown can build a case but when he makes such incredible statements that the audience, including reporters, gasp in amazement and actually boo at how he insinuates that it was Brown who provoked the protesters, by filming those who were shining searchlights onto his back porch all night, as seen on the video. If this is "building a case" it seems a pretty inept one! Surely there are tactics more likely to be successful. By the time this trial is over McGuinty will have taken some strong political hits. It's conceivable he might win the trial, although I don't think it likely. Still, if he does, politically it will be a pyrrhic victory. My point still stands, that McGuinty has put himself in this position unnecessarily. He could have used other tactics as far as the Browns and easily avoided this situation, while still not changing his overall policy towards the Caledonia protest. The fact that he didn't just shows that in this instance, he was inept. Edited November 30, 2009 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
charter.rights Posted November 30, 2009 Report Posted November 30, 2009 I normally ignore CR but I saw his quote in your post and I just can't resist. Essentially, he seems to be forgetting that my point was about the POLITICS of the situation! I find it incredible that McGuinty seems to have forgotten that. The Crown can build a case but when he makes such incredible statements that the audience, including reporters, gasp in amazement and actually boo at how he insinuates that it was Brown who provoked the protesters, by filming those who were shining searchlights onto his back porch all night, as seen on the video. If this is "building a case" it seems a pretty inept one! Surely there are tactics more likely to be successful. By the time this trial is over McGuinty will have taken some strong political hits. It's conceivable he might win the trial, although I don't think it likely. Still, if he does, politically it will be a pyrrhic victory. My point still stands, that McGuinty has put himself in this position unnecessarily. He could have used other tactics as far as the Browns and easily avoided this situation, while still not changing his overall policy towards the Caledonia protest. The fact that he didn't just shows that in this instance, he was inept. I disagree. This whole matter will slide off McGuinty like he was Teflon because this ISN'T a political matter, and never has been. It is a legal one - one about rights, one about criminal law as well as one about civil law. If it was political then the courts would have easily redirected every instance to the politicians....just like Justice Arrell did in the Brantford injunction. No this has always been about rights and the law, and those who can't advance their racist agendas through law always complain that this is about politics...and well... the politicians should just do something about it. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
William Ashley Posted December 24, 2009 Report Posted December 24, 2009 Didn't like Harris kill natives and stuff? What is wrong with delaying the innevitable, its all Indian Land or Occupied anyway. This is our Land, and that will never change because this world isn't owned by people it is dominated by people, but that doesn't erase all of our god given right to access and use land as we see fit. The unfortunate part is that militant forces exist to control the use, this doesn't make it theirs though in any lasting way, as time passes so do humans, and like all things use changes hands. We all know the story but I applaud McGuinty for not resorting to militant use of force regularly. Although the police brutalize people all the time, and not just natives, its their job to escalate to remove criminal occurance and breach of peace. It is just unfortunate the law doesn't treat people in equality but instead on grounds of priveleges in terms of land use rights. This likely won't change any time soon from that side, but you can't denie the truth, and that is that this is our land. Quote I was here.
Shwa Posted December 24, 2009 Report Posted December 24, 2009 and that is that this is our land. Who is "our?" Quote
William Ashley Posted December 24, 2009 Report Posted December 24, 2009 Who is "our?" rational reasonable persons. Quote I was here.
Shwa Posted December 27, 2009 Report Posted December 27, 2009 rational reasonable persons. Hmmm. I kind of thought you might cop out and you didn't disappoint. Quote
charter.rights Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) The Truth finally comes out. Dave Brown and Dana Chatwell were not concerned with justice, or protection, or the OPP, or their rights etc. "While he could not say if the deal involved the province buying the family out, he said the couple are looking to buy and relocate to another home in Caledonia as soon as possible." They were looking for a buy-out...just like Henco received and a bit of coin on the side. Caledonia family settles in 'lawlessness' lawsuit. Follow the money and at the end you will always find a rat - two of them to be exact. Edited December 31, 2009 by charter.rights Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
capricorn Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 They were looking for a buy-out...just like Henco received and a bit of coin on the side. Caledonia family settles in 'lawlessness' lawsuit. Follow the money and at the end you will always find a rat - two of them to be exact. You mean...only Natives can file and negotiate land claims? I say it's good to have one standard and one law for all. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
charter.rights Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 Nah. This wasn't a "land claim". It was a successful attempt to extort the government. But in the end it was dirty and immoral. BTW There is one law for all. It is a myth there is not. That one law - The Charter of Rights and Freedoms - prescribes for all Canadians. Unfortunately for your simplistic mind First Nations are not "Canadians" in the same respect as we are. Sect. 25 and 35 do not impose or give rights to First Nations. Instead they prevent people with simple minds like yours from imposing your values and restrictions upon them. And you can complain about it all you want. That IS "The LAW". One law for all. Work within it. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
capricorn Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 Nah. This wasn't a "land claim". It was a successful attempt to extort the government. But in the end it was dirty and immoral. Extorting money from the government. I don't think that's a new concept and from your other posts, I believe you have first hand experience in that domain. Unfortunately for your simplistic mind First Nations are not "Canadians" in the same respect as we are. I have never expressed my views to you or anywhere on this board on what I think constitutes a "Canadian". How quick you are to pigeonhole a poster with so little information. Sect. 25 and 35 do not impose or give rights to First Nations. Instead they prevent people with simple minds like yours from imposing your values and restrictions upon them. You really like the expression "simple minds" don't you. Does it make you feel superior to call others simple minded? Sorry but it doesn't work on me. And you can complain about it all you want. That IS "The LAW". One law for all. Work within it. Who's complaining? You agreed with me that there is one law for all. The fact that the Browns won a settlement proves it. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
charter.rights Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 Extorting money from the government. I don't think that's a new concept and from your other posts, I believe you have first hand experience in that domain. What a moronic statement....and then yo0u follow with this: How quick you are to pigeonhole a poster with so little information. You really like the expression "simple minds" don't you. Does it make you feel superior to call others simple minded? Sorry but it doesn't work on me. I see....too complicated for you to think about eh? Who's complaining? You agreed with me that there is one law for all. The fact that the Browns won a settlement proves it. They negotiated a "settlement" - they didn't win anything. That has nothing to do with the law. I don't consider extortion, lying or falsifying records to be within the moral compass of society, do you? Obviously you must if you believe the Browns worked within the law to get money out of the government. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Oleg Bach Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 Who ever said that McGinty was a brave and wonderful hero anyway? Most of those like actors that enter political life will do and say just about anything to maintain their position and status. It's an ego driven past time. Some one once mentioned that actors were just the very insecure guys you knew in high school who joined drama class because they needed the attention. Nerds..small men in stature who serve themselves as much as possible and don't care about public service...if they cared they would be of service and understand that they are servants. Quote
charter.rights Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 Who ever said that McGinty was a brave and wonderful hero anyway? Most of those like actors that enter political life will do and say just about anything to maintain their position and status. It's an ego driven past time. Some one once mentioned that actors were just the very insecure guys you knew in high school who joined drama class because they needed the attention. Nerds..small men in stature who serve themselves as much as possible and don't care about public service...if they cared they would be of service and understand that they are servants. Blaming McGuinty was a red herring anyway. It was just another of the many wimpish Conservative attacks on those in power. Of course no one blames Harper here do they....because he's...well... a Conservative and can't be blamed fro refusing to deal with lands claims in an honourable way. He can't be touched for sending in INAC negotiators with the only mandate to stall talks. So Caledonia and Brantford protests are only about the law. And had the government complied with the law in the first place by consulting, negotiating, accommodating and reconciling native interests with development none of this would have happened. Further, had the federal government taken the lands claims seriously, the Browns would still be in their home. The law requires govenrment and private interests to consult and accommodate BEFORE development is even contemplated. This is not new news. It has been the law for 25 years and counting and the M.O. is still the same. Go in develop land wait for the protests and then tell natives that the land is developed so cannot be returned. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Oleg Bach Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 When private parties buy up shopping malls in Scotland with a loan from the Canadian general pension fund it makes you wonder. All governments originate and spawn from very nice crime families. I believe that the First Nations elders understand who they are dealing with and are dealing with them according to rules that have not a lot to do with law or as you say, rule of law. As they say the super dogs are at work and their counter parts on the other side of the fence are realists. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 While I am at it who's big idea is it to sell off Athebaska to China for next to nothing? I would call that extremely disloyal would you not? Quote
Jack Weber Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 While I am at it who's big idea is it to sell off Athebaska to China for next to nothing? I would call that extremely disloyal would you not? Provincial Con's sell off the 407 for a song and dance... Federal Con's sell off our natural resources(and our sovereignty(sp)) for an equal song and dance... The key words here are "Con's" and "sell"...One could add the word "out",as well.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wild Bill Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 Provincial Con's sell off the 407 for a song and dance... Federal Con's sell off our natural resources(and our sovereignty(sp)) for an equal song and dance... The key words here are "Con's" and "sell"...One could add the word "out",as well.... And Federal Liberals sold out all the Northern Telecom jobs and industry to China, decimating the electronics manufacturing industry in this country. Nobody ever mentions that one. Not you or the MSM, yet THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of jobs were lost! I guess it's only bad if a Tory does it. Some people can only see evil through their right eye. No wonder Liberals think they're the Natural Governing Party. Their supporters would forgive Charles Manson if he was a Liberal! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
charter.rights Posted December 31, 2009 Report Posted December 31, 2009 And Federal Liberals sold out all the Northern Telecom jobs and industry to China, decimating the electronics manufacturing industry in this country. Nobody ever mentions that one. Not you or the MSM, yet THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of jobs were lost! I guess it's only bad if a Tory does it. Some people can only see evil through their right eye. No wonder Liberals think they're the Natural Governing Party. Their supporters would forgive Charles Manson if he was a Liberal! Wrong WB. Industry and investors sold off the jobs in manufacturing. Government might have stood by and let them do it, but then again the government can't stand up against the big corporations who pay for their perks. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
William Ashley Posted January 1, 2010 Report Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) And Federal Liberals sold out all the Northern Telecom jobs and industry to China, decimating the electronics manufacturing industry in this country. Nobody ever mentions that one. Not you or the MSM, yet THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of jobs were lost! I guess it's only bad if a Tory does it. Some people can only see evil through their right eye. No wonder Liberals think they're the Natural Governing Party. Their supporters would forgive Charles Manson if he was a Liberal! I'd give him a Mic even if he wern't liberal. I think he may be one of george bush's idols Edited January 1, 2010 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Jack Weber Posted January 3, 2010 Report Posted January 3, 2010 And Federal Liberals sold out all the Northern Telecom jobs and industry to China, decimating the electronics manufacturing industry in this country. Nobody ever mentions that one. Not you or the MSM, yet THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of jobs were lost! I guess it's only bad if a Tory does it. Some people can only see evil through their right eye. No wonder Liberals think they're the Natural Governing Party. Their supporters would forgive Charles Manson if he was a Liberal! Nope....Both are wrong...NeoLiberal economic theories are the problem.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Popeye Posted January 15, 2010 Report Posted January 15, 2010 To update: The former Brown/Chatwell residence on Argle St. S. in Caledonia, Ontario is being demolished today. Quote "Fortunately, I keep my feathers numbered for just such an emergency" ~ Foghorn Leghorn
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