HST Bad News for Conservatives

[madmax]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/is-ndps-election-on-the-hst-bad-news-for-the-tories/article1361609/

Stephen Harper, who once famously declared there was no such thing as a good tax, must now be wondering if a revolt over consumption tax hikes in B.C. and Ontario could eat into Conservative political fortunes

NDP Leader Jack Layton's resounding by-election win in a Vancouver-area riding Monday – the New Democrats thumped the Tories by 14 points – occurred in part because the opposition turned the race into a referendum on the looming harmonized sales tax in B.C.

It was a disappointing result for the Tories, who'd even announced a judicial inquiry into disappearing salmon stocks days before the New Westminster-Coquitlam by-election in hopes of boosting their appeal.

Mr. Layton says results in New Westminster-Coquitlam show his party can make Mr. Harper pay a political price for the Conservatives' role in the HST, a massively unpopular tax shift taking place in both B.C. and Ontario next July.

Pollster Nik Nanos says the B.C. by-election results should give Tories pause. “It may be a precursor of the rough ride Conservatives could expect on the harmonization front.”

For months, the Tories have publicly ducked any responsibility for the HST, even though they counselled Ontario and B.C. to embrace the tax.

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff has largely held off attacking the Tories over the HST, leaving the field to the NDP rather than mounting a campaign against the shift that would hurt his brethren in the McGuinty government.

This leaves the NDP free to run against the HST in seat-rich Ontario and B.C. ridings, where they are serious contenders for seats with the Tories.

“Harper should be quite worried because of the timing,” Mr. Nanos says. “As soon as the first cash register rings on this, judging by what happened with the GST in the past, this is going to be a political issue.”

Is it any wonder after reading this, the NDP have targeted the $4.3 Billion that the Conservatives are spending to implement the tax in Ontario.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Opposition+could+thwart+plan/2195604/story.html

Opposition MPs could thwart HST plan

'We can nip this in the bud,' NDP member says of tax motion due to arrive by spring

By Vito Pilieci, The Ottawa CitizenNovember 7, 2009

Ontario's plan to adopt the controversial Harmonized Sales Tax could hit a roadblock on Parliament Hill.

Opposition parties said Friday they may not support an upcoming Conservative motion to change federal tax regulations -- necessary for the implementation of the combined tax. And since the HST motion could be budget-related and therefore a confidence vote, the issue might trigger a federal election.

A bill paving the way for the HST, which Ontario wants in place by July 1, 2010, is expected to be presented to Parliament by March 31.

The NDP has stated its intention to fight the combined tax. John Rafferty, the NDP MP for Thunder Bay-Rainy River, tabled a motion Thursday aimed at halting the federal government's promise of $4 billion for Ontario to help it make the tax transition.

If this motion passes, it would hinder the Harper Government in handing over $4.3 Billion to Ontario.

Should this be a confidence vote?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Harper Sales Tax. I love it, and so will all opposition parties. All they have to do is find a way to capitalize on it!

[Alta4ever]

Harper Sales Tax. I love it, and so will all opposition parties. All they have to do is find a way to capitalize on it!

Too Bad its Provincial Politicians asking for it.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Too Bad its Provincial Politicians asking for it.

Yes and no. Harper has been tagged with it, and once they take the show on the road his name just keep getting mentioned meaning he will have earned the handle with due diligence.

[Alta4ever]

Yes and no. Harper has been tagged with it, and once they take the show on the road his name just keep getting mentioned meaning he will have earned the handle with due diligence.

Its nothing more then Red Kool aid being ladled out by the NDP. Both the Ontario liberals and the BC Liberals asked for it.

[Keepitsimple]

It's a good strategy for the NDP and I think they could bleed some votes from the Liberals and pick up a couple of seats. Ignatieff has already said he would support the HST...... and Ontario and BC have Liberal governments - and they're the ones who are responsible for the HST and how they decide to implement it - what gets taxed and what doesn't get taxed. So the Federal Liberals hands are tied unless they want to alienate their provincial cousins. What a mess they've got themselves into.

[Vancouver King]

Too Bad its Provincial Politicians asking for it.

Too bad it's Harper offering up bribe money to B.C. and Ontario to implement tax increases on already beleagured taxpayers. This is the only issue anywhere in the realm that has the potential to turn a Tory 10% poll lead into a trailing by 5% debacle.

Harper's sales tax - what a ring that has to it.

[Riverwind]

Yes and no. Harper has been tagged with it, and once they take the show on the road his name just keep getting mentioned meaning he will have earned the handle with due diligence.

The only people 'tagging' Harper with it are partisans out to milk it for political advantage. It remains to be seen if it will convince many people who would consider voting Conservative in the first place to change their mind and vote for the 'Scrap the GST' Liberals.

Ironically, the Liberals never promised to scrap the GST - they only promised to replace it with a harmonized tax.

[Alta4ever]

Too bad it's Harper offering up bribe money to B.C. and Ontario to implement tax increases on already beleagured taxpayers. This is the only issue anywhere in the realm that has the potential to turn a Tory 10% poll lead into a trailing by 5% debacle.

Harper's sales tax - what a ring that has to it.

I think you should consult your premier as it is the provincial politicans who have the say on whether or not it happens.

[Alta4ever]

"On March 26, 2009 in its annual budget, the province of Ontario announced its intention to merge the PST and GST to take effect on July 1, 2010"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax

[Battletoads]

"On March 26, 2009 in its annual budget, the province of Ontario announced its intention to merge the PST and GST to take effect on July 1, 2010"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax

Nice wikipeida reference.

And Harper is standing right behind the ontario and bc government.

Funny how conservatives bend and stretch when their "conservative" leader starts doing things like increasing taxes, running massive deficits and the like.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

In truth the HST is a tax grab. It benefits federal and provincial governments. It does not benefit the citizens.

[madmax]

Too Bad its Provincial Politicians asking for it.

In the middle of a Recession, you want the Conservative government to spend $4.3Billion in a single year to bribe the Ontario Government to implement the HST? That is half the money the Conservatives took from the EI fund. That is 12 TIMES the amount of money the Conservatives are willing to put back into the EI fund across the entire country in one year.

It is 12 times more important for the Conservatives to have Ontario within the HST fold.

It is 5 Times more important for the Conservatives to have BC within the HST fold.

These are two of the largest Provinces and the CPC is looking for more tax revenues. It is worth $4.3 Billion in seed monies to the Federal Conservative government to go ahead on this massive tax grab.

The Provinces didn't ask for the HST the Federal government greased their palms to make it an attractive option to get into the publics pocket.

[madmax]

"On March 26, 2009 in its annual budget, the province of Ontario announced its intention to merge the PST and GST to take effect on July 1, 2010"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax

Wow is this Conservative Government fast....

Tories pledge $4.3B to offset Ontario tax reform costsJames Cowan, National Post:

Thursday, March 26, 2009RELATEDOntarians to receive $1,000 tax trade-off

Ontario's sales tax harmonization explained

TORONTO -- Ontario will receive $4.3-billion in federal funding to ease the harmonization of its provincial sales tax with the GST.

[Keepitsimple]

There's a lot of confusion because many people don't understand the business side of the ledger. Quite rightly, they can only see that they are paying more tax.....but to think that the Provincial and Federal gevernments are fleecing us is misplaced. There is a substantial benefit for business and lets not forget - although we all seem to hate "big business" like the Banks and Oil companies, the majority of Canada's economy is driven by small to medium businesses. With the HST, all businesses will be able to claim HST tax credits on everything that they need to build their products. Prior to HST, companies had to pay PST for most of their inputs and GST on some as well......now they'll effectively pay NO tax. This means our companies are more competitive, can sell more products, and create more jobs. Here's a FAQ from the BC government that explains things. Is it a tax grab? No....but if it helps companies grow and our economy expand, then government revenue through CORPORATE taxes will rise. It's always been an issue of competitiveness.

Q. What are input tax credits?

Under a harmonized sales tax, businesses are able to claim input tax credits (ITCs) for the HST they pay, effectively recovering the tax they pay on their business inputs.

Under an HST system, businesses making taxable or zero-rated supplies can deduct the amount of HST they pay from the total amount they send to the government. This deduction is called an input tax credit. The result is that most businesses do not end up paying any HST so there is no HST embedded (or passed on to consumers) in the selling price of their products.

If the business pays more in HST than it collects from its customers, it can claim a refund.

For example, a chair making business will have to buy a number of materials (e.g., wood, nails, machinery, energy to run the equipment, paint, paintbrushes etc.) and will have to pay HST on those purchases. In addition the business will also pay HST on its overhead costs (e.g., energy to heat and light the building, office equipment, telephone service). The chair making business will also have to charge HST when it sells the chairs to its customers.

If the chair making business pays $100,000 in HST on the goods and services it uses to produce the chairs and collects $250,000 in HST from its customers, it will only remit $150,000 to the government. So, effectively, the business does not end up paying any HST on its purchases.

Link: http://www.gov.bc.ca/hst/faq.html

Edited November 17, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[ToadBrother]

There's a lot of confusion because many people don't understand the business side of the ledger. Quite rightly, they can only see that they are paying more tax.....but to think that the Provincial and Federal gevernments are fleecing us is misplaced. There is a substantial benefit for business and lets not forget - although we all seem to hate "big business" like the Banks and Oil companies, the majority of Canada's economy is driven by small to medium businesses. With the HST, all businesses will be able to claim HST tax credits on everything that they need to build their products. Prior to HST, companies had to pay PST for most of their inputs and GST on some as well......now they'll effectively pay NO tax. This means our companies are more competitive, can sell more products, and create more jobs. Here's a FAQ from the BC government that explains things. Is it a tax grab? No....but if it helps companies grow and our economy expand, then government revenue through CORPORATE taxes will rise. It's always been an issue of competitiveness.

Consumption taxes good. Income, corporate and capital gains taxes bad.

My issue, as a British Columbian, isn't with the HST (we should have signed on years ago), but with the fact that the BC Liberals bald faced lied about it in the May election. This is a major issue, and should have been debated in the election, but because the BC Liberals were terrified that it might be a game buster they didn't mention at all that it was in the cards. I can tell you this, if the economy doesn't turn around quick enough for BC, they'll lose the next election over this like the Federal Tories did over GST, and just like then, the NDP government that succeeds them will promptly decide to keep it, because the PST is a horrible tax, expensive to administrate, complex and onerous on business.

[Shady]

What's really ironic, is that the same people in this forum that are so "concerned" about the HST, were completely against Harper lowering the GST.

[ToadBrother]

What's really ironic, is that the same people in this forum that are so "concerned" about the HST, were completely against Harper lowering the GST.

Harper shouldn't have lowered the GST. It was a moronic populist move which has had serious repercussions. What he's demonstrated is that he has the economic sense of a dog turd on the highway. If he had any brains, he would have cut payroll, corporate and capital gains taxes substantially and bumped the GST up to 10% or 11%.

There's a reason Chretien went back on his promise when he beat the Tories into the dirt with the promise to end the GST, and that's because at some point either during or after the election his economic advisers explained to him that the GST was a damned good tax, and much better than what it replaced.

[madmax]

What's really ironic, is that the same people in this forum that are so "concerned" about the HST, were completely against Harper lowering the GST.

The Shell game continues, Harper giveth with his left hand, and he taketh away with his right.

No doubt this tax splits across Idealogical lines when it comes to being for it or against it.

It is why the CPC will be under pressure in CPC ridings in BC and Ontario. Not all CPC voters want this tax.

So are you with Riverwind, ToadBrother etc... or the populist movement?

[madmax]

http://nationalcitizens.ca/hst.pl?rm=show_hst_reg_form (The NCC HST Calculator)

The Harmonized Sales Tax in Ontario and BC will only certainly lead to an increase in prices for many products and services that are currently PST exempt.

This tax increase will be especially hard on seniors, students and low income earners who are on fixed incomes and will simply be faced with an increase in prices.

We can't afford new taxes or higher taxes no matter how you frame it , whether you call them outright tax increases or try and make it sound less destructive by calling them a 'Harmonized Sales Tax'.

Sign up to use our HST calculator to see just how much this new tax will affect your bottom line.

[ToadBrother]

The Shell game continues, Harper giveth with his left hand, and he taketh away with his right.

No doubt this tax splits across Idealogical lines when it comes to being for it or against it.

It is why the CPC will be under pressure in CPC ridings in BC and Ontario. Not all CPC voters want this tax.

So are you with Riverwind, ToadBrother etc... or the populist movement?

Consumption taxes have long been popular with economists, but because they tend to be much more onerous on the poor, they have never been utilized as much as they should.

The GST is, generally, a good tax. It's relatively cheap to administer for both business and government. While the GST does have some arcaneness to its rules, it's nothing compared to the monster that, say, BC's PST is (PST audits are like Russian roulette).

There are ways to deal with the biggest issue of the GST. The most obvious is to increase the size and frequency of the GST rebate cheque to low income families. Obviously this will increase costs somewhat, but the the GST/HST infrastructure has been around for nearly two decades now, so it shouldn't be that onerous.

There are two other clear benefits to consumption taxes; they tend to be much equitable in distribution of who pays and they encourage savings. The taxpayer has much more control over how much they pay. Don't like paying so much tax, don't buy so much. Stick it in your bank or into bonds or RRSPs and the like.

[Alta4ever]

The Shell game continues, Harper giveth with his left hand, and he taketh away with his right.

No doubt this tax splits across Idealogical lines when it comes to being for it or against it.

It is why the CPC will be under pressure in CPC ridings in BC and Ontario. Not all CPC voters want this tax.

So are you with Riverwind, ToadBrother etc... or the populist movement?

You do realize that it is the taxed items on the pst that will increase, as the GST aplies to more goods and services in the provinces right? See it for what it is please a provincial tax grab

Edited November 18, 2009 by Alta4ever

[Jerry J. Fortin]

You do realize that it is the taxed items on thpst that will increase, as the GST aplies to more goods and services in the provinces right? See it for what it is please a provincial tax grab

It has rightly been said that business will benefit from this new form of taxation, isn't that wonderful! Once again the citizen gets screwed and business gets a nice little break. All in the name of doing the right thing for the economy. That ploy has been well rooted in our political system, it is the very mantra our governments have been preaching to citizens. Oddly some believe it to be true.

[Alta4ever]

It has rightly been said that business will benefit from this new form of taxation, isn't that wonderful! Once again the citizen gets screwed and business gets a nice little break. All in the name of doing the right thing for the economy. That ploy has been well rooted in our political system, it is the very mantra our governments have been preaching to citizens. Oddly some believe it to be true.

As I said before look to the provincial goverments, it was a very clever ploy to remove items from the pst exempt list. In Other words the province governments are using this as a tax raise, as usual the NDP misses the mark, it is the provincial government looking for hiden ways to raise the taxes.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

As I said before look to the provincial goverments, it was a very clever ploy to remove items from the pst exempt list. In Other words the province governments are using this as a tax raise, as usual the NDP misses the mark, it is the provincial government looking for hiden ways to raise the taxes.

Makes me very happy to be an Albertan, not having to worry about another freaking tax!