Householders and Ten Percenters

nothinarian · November 22, 2009

You mean the Helena Geurgis who racked up $86,808 in printing expenses? Yeah she sure seems really against the practice, pfft actions speak louder than words. I wonder if she will still support bill c-15 if it means mandaTORY prison time for her ex-CON MP husband Rahim Jaffer for driving drunk while speeding and possessing cocaine? He spoke about how against drugs he was too when insulting Jack Layton for talking about decriminalizing cannabis. I think Jaffer's actions speak louder than HIS words too.

The Conservatives are total hypocrites on EVERY issue. Remember how Harper said he would NEVER appoint senators? Stephen Harper has appointed MORE senators than any Prime Minister in Canada's history! The Cons are famous for saying one thing but doing the opposite.

Tories are the same as grits are the same as dippers are the same as....

All of the caucus research offices use the 10 percenter as a tool to spread their gospel so the Tories aren't the only guilty party. The problem is my tax dollars being spent for partisan political purposes.

They should bring in severe internal penalties that would make MP's think twice (i.e. no parlimentary dining room priveleges, no spa membership for a year)for those that are found guilty of using 10 percenters for partisan purposes. They should also limit them to 12 per year and only in their own ridings.

ToadBrother · November 22, 2009

I live in a jewish-majority neighbourhood in Winnipeg that is currently held by the Liberals. Stephen Felcher, the PC from a nearby riding, has sent me at least 10 flyers in the past five years. The latest is just the worst in terms of exploiting identity politics.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/70396032.html

The Conservatives have well and truly arrived, and shown themselves as repugnant, vile and lacking in anything approaching moral fiber as their competitors.

ToadBrother · November 22, 2009

Tories are the same as grits are the same as dippers are the same as....

All of the caucus research offices use the 10 percenter as a tool to spread their gospel so the Tories aren't the only guilty party. The problem is my tax dollars being spent for partisan political purposes.

They should bring in severe internal penalties that would make MP's think twice (i.e. no parlimentary dining room priveleges, no spa membership for a year)for those that are found guilty of using 10 percenters for partisan purposes. They should also limit them to 12 per year and only in their own ridings.

I'm thinking we should just have an independent office that, once a year, reviews all taxpayer-funded advertising, and if it judges them partisan, bills the party responsible all charges with a 20% penalty on top.

nothinarian · November 22, 2009

I'm thinking we should just have an independent office that, once a year, reviews all taxpayer-funded advertising, and if it judges them partisan, bills the party responsible all charges with a 20% penalty on top.

[/quote

Yeah but just imagine the great headlines

MP (insert name) LOSES SPA and DINING PRIVELEGES

Independent offices cost money and will create another bureaucratic fiefdom where our money can be wasted- although penalty of 20% could help fund it

Edited November 22, 2009 by nothinarian

Gabriel · November 22, 2009

Wrong thread. Please delete.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Gabriel

DrGreenthumb · November 23, 2009

Tories are the same as grits are the same as dippers are the same as....

All of the caucus research offices use the 10 percenter as a tool to spread their gospel so the Tories aren't the only guilty party. The problem is my tax dollars being spent for partisan political purposes.

They should bring in severe internal penalties that would make MP's think twice (i.e. no parlimentary dining room priveleges, no spa membership for a year)for those that are found guilty of using 10 percenters for partisan purposes. They should also limit them to 12 per year and only in their own ridings.

Not good enough. The Cons billed taxpayers more than double for these things than all other parties, and every Con sent leaflet I have seen is complete partisan propaganda.

BubberMiley · November 23, 2009

First of all, there are no Jewish majority neighbourhoods in Winnipeg. Unless your neighborhood is about one block. It'd be more accurate to say that there are more Jewish persons living in your neighborhood than the overall proportion of Jews in the broader Canadian population. Perhaps having a few Jews around, in your mind, is an imagined Jewish majority.

I live in South River Heights in Winnipeg, which has all sorts of Jewish people. Its true they are more visible than others--most are orthodox, so they are easy to spot. They also walk to synagogue on the sabbath. Nobody else seems to want to leave their cars.

I also saw a stat that the catchment area for the nearby elementary school has a jewish population of just over 50%. I can't verify that though, but the Hebrew immersion program in that school is by far the most popular program. The regular English track has only a handful of kids.

nothinarian · November 23, 2009

Not good enough. The Cons billed taxpayers more than double for these things than all other parties, and every Con sent leaflet I have seen is complete partisan propaganda.

So you agree that they are all guilty but that the Tories are more guilty based on the numbers. I agree - carrying it forward if they are all guilty and need to be fined, it would need to be pro-rated based on extent of abuse . I would base it on individual MP's partisan mailing history and obviously the Tories are leaders of the pack based on figures quoted previously on this thread.

Why are MP's sending 10 percenters to ridings other than their own anyway? Seems like a policy fraught with abuse opportunities.

nothinarian · November 23, 2009

Not good enough. The Cons billed taxpayers more than double for these things than all other parties, and every Con sent leaflet I have seen is complete partisan propaganda.

What makes my blood boil is defending the practice as per link below - they obviously do not understand that my tax dollars are for the betterment of this country and not their political party - at least Guergis had the guts to admit the practice was wrong.

"The MP for Tobique-Mactaquac, Allen said there's political gain to be had using the flyers, particularly in ridings such as Fredericton and Madawaska-Restigouche, where he feels his party may have a chance to defeat the Liberals in the next election."

Entitlement - Plus ca change...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2008/08/25/ten-percenters.html

robert_viera · November 23, 2009

Thank you very much I found the info I needed in the link, any chance you know where to find a similar breakdown on Mike Duffy's expenses?

I'm not aware of a similar document listing the expenses of individual Senators. Perhaps someone could ask the NDP:

http://www.ndp.ca/press/senator-week-senator-nick-sibbeston-most-expensive-overall

... they seem to have the figures.

Alta4ever · November 23, 2009

The Conservatives have well and truly arrived, and shown themselves as repugnant, vile and lacking in anything approaching moral fiber as their competitors.

I bet you would have said that 6 years ago too.

DrGreenthumb · November 23, 2009

What makes my blood boil is defending the practice as per link below - they obviously do not understand that my tax dollars are for the betterment of this country and not their political party - at least Guergis had the guts to admit the practice was wrong.

"The MP for Tobique-Mactaquac, Allen said there's political gain to be had using the flyers, particularly in ridings such as Fredericton and Madawaska-Restigouche, where he feels his party may have a chance to defeat the Liberals in the next election."

Entitlement - Plus ca change...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2008/08/25/ten-percenters.html

86,000+ is what Geurgis spent on them herself last year.

nothinarian · November 23, 2009

86,000+ is what Geurgis spent on them herself last year.

Yes she did

But when pressed at least she went on the record to say it was wrong - her problem was that she is either a hypocrite (continued the practice knowingly) or did not instruct the Conservative Research Office to stop mailing them under her name - My information tells me that the MP's very seldom see the flyers mailed under their name to other ridings - once they give their approval to use their frank - the machine goes into gear, blanket mailings occur, and tax payers get reamed. :angry:

nothinarian · November 23, 2009

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/11/23/liberals-partisan-flyers.html#socialcomments

"The Liberals want the federal government to restrict how many partisan flyers MPs can send to constituents at taxpayers' expense."

"The letter from Ignatieff also proposes abolishing the practice of MPs "regrouping" their allotment of 10-percenters so that they can blanket an area with party propaganda."

"Ignatieff also wants the name of the party leader to be included in any such mailings, with an explicit endorsement of the mail's content."

This is how politicians can gain credibility with the public and Iggy sure needs it ...practical policy based on the pulse of pissed off people.

Jerry J. Fortin · November 24, 2009

All good and credible concepts, just about exactly what he should be proposing at this point.

robert_viera · November 24, 2009

I came across the following, which appears to be the section on printing services from the Members' Allowances and Services Manual. I found it at the end of a report from 2006. I don't know if anything has changed since then. A link to the source is below.

Members’ allowances and Services Manual

( a ) PRINTING SERVICES

Members are provided with the following Printing Services at House Administration expense:

Consultation, planning and production of:

Householders, ten percenters, personalized stationery and business cards (maximum of 2,000); bulk photocopying, including up to 10 copies of committee transcripts; and binding.

( b ) HOUSEHOLDERS

Householders are printed materials sent by Members to inform their constituents about parliamentary activities and issues. Members are entitled to print and mail up to four householders per calendar year three between January 1 and October 15, and one between October 16 and December 31 each year. There must be a 30 calendar day interval between householders submitted between January 1 and October 15. (Emphasis mine.)

Unused householder allocations cannot be carried over to a subsequent period or year.

For each householder, the quantity produced at House Administration expense cannot exceed the total number of residential, rural and business householders and Canadian Armed Forces military personnel registered as electors in the Members’ constituency. Members who require additional copies may have them printed and mailed as a charge to their Member’s Office Budget.

Postage for additional householder mailings is subject to the preferred bulk ra[t]e set by Canada Post and is chargeable to the Member’s Office Budget. This preferred rate is available to Members only when items are posted from the House of Commons Postal and Distribution Services Office. When posted elsewhere by Members, items are subject to the prevailing regular postal rates. For a list of current rates, see the Appendix: Schedule of Rates located in the Budgets chapter.

The Board of Internal Economy approves householder colors and formats. For further information, contact Printing Services.

( c ) TEN PERCENTERS

Ten percenters are printed or photocopied material reproduced in quantities not exceeding 10% of the total number of householders in a Member’s constituency. Quantities exceeding that amount will be considered householders and will be deducted from the Member’s householder allowance.

Each ten percenter is produced in black and white and must have a 50% difference in textual content from other ten percenters produced. Each document may be printed only once per fiscal year, must originate with the Member and have the Member’s name on it.

Source: http://reports.fja.gc.ca/eng/2006/2006fc1544/2006fc1544.html

Edited November 24, 2009 by robert_viera

BubberMiley · December 4, 2009

Today I got a leaflet from Gordon O'Connor, who doesn't even represent a riding in my province. It's really poorly designed and off-putting, desperately trying to defame Ignatieff. I had been leaning towards soft support for the CPC after seeing Harper's impressive Ringo chops and seeing how their government has been an effective relief from Liberal reign.

But this just put me right off. And I cannot see how, in any way, it will work for the Tories. It makes them look like assholes.

robert_viera · December 5, 2009

Today I got a leaflet from Gordon O'Connor, who doesn't even represent a riding in my province. It's really poorly designed and off-putting, desperately trying to defame Ignatieff. I had been leaning towards soft support for the CPC after seeing Harper's impressive Ringo chops and seeing how their government has been an effective relief from Liberal reign.

But this just put me right off. And I cannot see how, in any way, it will work for the Tories. It makes them look like assholes.

Could you scan it if you have a scanner, or take a digital photo of it if you have a digital camera? I think it would help build support for putting a stop to these mailings if people could see what others are getting in their mail.

BubberMiley · December 5, 2009

Could you scan it if you have a scanner

Okay. Here you go. I think they're complete idiots for sending this crap out. I mean, really--sticking arrows in the guys head? Going with the unnerving kidnapper font, which is universally understood to be sinister and threatening? And the whole "just in it for himself" campaign is offputting because they are presuming to know the man's motives and then criticizing him for them. Nobody ever likes people who do that.

It can only hurt them.

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab220/bmiley_album/cpcleaflet.jpg

Edited December 5, 2009 by BubberMiley

robert_viera · December 5, 2009

Okay. Here you go. I think they're complete idiots for sending this crap out. I mean, really--sticking arrows in the guys head? Going with the unnerving kidnapper font, which is universally understood to be sinister and threatening? And the whole "just in it for himself" campaign is offputting because they are presuming to know the man's motives and then criticizing him for them. Nobody ever likes people who do that.

It can only hurt them.

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab220/bmiley_album/cpcleaflet.jpg

Thanks! I don't see how any MP could honestly claim that the content of that ten-percenter has anything to do with the job they're supposed to be doing between election campaigns.

Edited December 5, 2009 by robert_viera

BubberMiley · December 5, 2009

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in their strategy meeting: "People want to see government MPs spending taxpayers' money outside of their home province on character asassination! And we'll make it look like a ransom note! People love getting ransom notes!"

Edited December 6, 2009 by BubberMiley

robert_viera · February 8, 2010

I reached in my mailbox today and pulled out what I assumed to be yet another ten-percenter from my local Conservative MP, Patrick Brown. When I looked at it I was surprised to see the headline "Democracy locked out", then I flipped it over and realized that it was sent by Michael Ignatieff. You can see it here:

http://www.zooomr.com/photos/robertviera/8890034/ (Outside)

http://www.zooomr.com/photos/robertviera/8890035/ (Inside)