www.teammartinsaid.ca

[Slavik44]

A child getting raped is not art, it's a criminal offence under the criminal code of Canada. And yes I belive that a 14 year old is old enough to consent to sex.

sex=14

drive=16

vote=18

I can have sex, i can drive, maybe I could have sex and drive at the same time but i sure as h*ll can't vote...yep we got our priorities straight.

[Free Thinker]

yes the voting age should be lowered.

[playfullfellow]

yes the voting age should be lowered.

Well that would settle a lot of the countries problems wouldn't it? We have a whole generation now that doesn't even know who the current PM is and you want to let them vote? Makes more sense to raise the other ages. But if we did it your way, we could always let Barney run for PM and sing "nice" songs.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Okay Free Thinker, so you believe that a 14 year old girl should be allowed to have intercourse with a 45 year old creep, even if her parents object. I'm glad that I'm conservative and actually put a high value of childrens lives. It used to be that we as a society put the highest values on childrens lives. But now that we live in a society were the left wing has successfully allowed Robin Sharpe to produce kiddy porn, a nation which sympathizes with those who leave their babies in garbage cans, and a nation that allows kids as young as 14 to be molested by a 45 year old creep.

Way to go, it seems that the left wing has won. :angry:

[takeanumber]

Oh goodie, a Conservative preaching 'family values', shall we go through them, one by one?

Okay Free Thinker, so you believe that a 14 year old girl should be allowed to have intercourse with a 45 year old creep, even if her parents object.

Seems to me that a true conservative would want government to stay out of their lives as much as possible. So why you bringing the law in to this?

Shouldn't parents be able to raise a child who won't go off and have sex with a 45 year old man? What happened to the family value that parents TEACH their children to THINK so that they can make SMART decisions.

If the parent's object, yeh, there's a way to stop it. It's called GROUNDING. And if the brat is bad enough to defy the parents that much, it's called BOOT CAMP.

I'll say this again and again: Conservatives: Stop asking SOCIETY to raise your kids. Okay?

I'm glad that I'm conservative and actually put a high value of childrens lives.

small 'l' liberals do too.

It used to be that we as a society put the highest values on childrens lives.

Not so sure about that. People used to pop 12 of'em; and not really pay any special attention to them. I'm sure they were all loved, but I mean, there was so much disease and death, y'know?

Anyway; if conservatives value children't lives so much, why do they make it so damn expensive to vaccinate a child, if the said child is from a poor family?

But now that we live in a society were the left wing has successfully allowed Robin Sharpe to produce kiddy porn

Unless you quote the court decision that he can snap photos of kids, this statement is invalid, and your opinion on this point will be dismissed repeatedly until you can learn how to form informed decisions.

,

a nation which sympathizes with those who leave their babies in garbage cans,

Hardly.

nd a nation that allows kids as young as 14 to be molested by a 45 year old creep.

Molested implies abuse. There is no such law that allows such abuse.

Way to go, it seems that the left wing has won.

Not yet. May I remind you that Martin is still the PM.

Regards,

Takeanumber

[playfullfellow]

I'll say this again and again: Conservatives: Stop asking SOCIETY to raise your kids. Okay?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, can't really recall any conservatives asking society to raise their kids. I think the opposite is true. Conservatives do ask for laws that will protect thier kids from creeps and freaks but aside from that, would rather have society stay out of how they raise their kids.

Molested implies abuse. There is no such law that allows such abuse.

So in your opinion, if a 45 year old was having sex with your 14 year old daughter would not be considered abuse? Please define what you would call this then?

Not so sure about that. People used to pop 12 of'em; and not really pay any special attention to them. I'm sure they were all loved, but I mean, there was so much disease and death, y'know

So in other words, just because we have less kids now a days and have less disease, we love our kids more now? We have turn key kids who basically raise themselves because both parents have to work to make ends meet. We have infants who are raised in childcare facilities because Mom has to go back to work as soon as her maternity leave runs out or they lose the house. We have family services who take kids from good homes yet let others live in drug infested squalor. We have 14 year olds as prostitutes and drug addicts in our cities yet society turns a blind eye but rather yells and screams when laws are enacted that force these kids to be taken off of the streets. Yeah, as a society as a whole, we have more freedoms now but that is not always a good thing when you consider the next generation coming up was raised on Nintendo and Xbox.

[takeanumber]

QUOTE

I'll say this again and again: Conservatives: Stop asking SOCIETY to raise your kids. Okay?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, can't really recall any conservatives asking society to raise their kids. I think the opposite is true. Conservatives do ask for laws that will protect thier kids from creeps and freaks but aside from that, would rather have society stay out of how they raise their kids.

Raise your kids with the skills to protect themselves.

Murderers, pedo's, rapists: we can't rehabilitate, granted.

But it's always one thing or another with conservatives asking the state to protect their kids from:

1. Content on TV

2. Content on news.

3. Content in Mags.

4. Content on Internet.

5. Content in movies.

6. Content in video games.

Raise your kids. Teach them to make smart choices.

Censorship for lazyness sake is wrong.

QUOTE

Molested implies abuse. There is no such law that allows such abuse.

So in your opinion, if a 45 year old was having sex with your 14 year old daughter would not be considered abuse? Please define what you would call this then?

I'd call it pretty freaking sick and skanky. What kind of PARENT would raise a child to sleep with a 45 year old man consentingly?

By the time a kid turns 14, if they were raised right, they would have the faculty to avoid several things in life.

1. Don't touch a hot stove.

2. Look both ways before you cross the street.

3. Girls should only date boys their age.

4. Sex, in spite of what you see on TV, is special. It's also easy to get knocked up, or worse, get a nasty STD.

The problem that I've seen with 14yo girls who sleep with 45yo men willingly is pretty simple: bad parents.

I believe that parents should be held in part accountable for the kids that they raise. Everybody has the RIGHT to raise a kid, but everybody has a RESPONSIBILITY to raise good citizens. A 14yo girl who sleeps with a 45yo man is clearly NOT one that has been raised responsibly.

So in other words, just because we have less kids now a days and have less disease, we love our kids more now?

Yup. Compare the amount of love an only-child gets compared to a family of 12. Poor middle children are starved for attention.

We have turn key kids who basically raise themselves because both parents have to work to make ends meet.

No, no, no: don't try to blame 'the economy' for CHOICES that parents make.

See: a core problem with the conservatives that I know (and I have a conservative friend, they're good people) is that nothing seems to be their fault all of a sudden.

You have a CHOICE to make. Do you forego salary for 5 years so you can raise your kid, or do you shove them into daycare?

Nobody is 'forcing' anybody to work. If you value your child more than work, you'd take the damn pay cut, suck it up, and live like a student for awhile.

I think the problem is that conservatives have forgetten that having kids requires sacrifice, but they don't want to sacrifice anything, because to a conservative, they're the most important person in society, without taking into account the needs of soceity.

So, suck it up. Take the paycut, and raise the kid.

We have infants who are raised in childcare facilities because Mom has to go back to work as soon as her maternity leave runs out or they lose the house.

What about the father? Isn't he to be held responsible too?

That's what's so great about Canada today. You have the CHOICE. Dad can stay home, or Mom can stay home!

We have family services who take kids from good homes yet let others live in drug infested squalor.

This is a good thing right? Taking kids away from families who won't raise their kids properly to families who will?

We have 14 year olds as prostitutes and drug addicts in our cities

Prostitution and drugs are illegal.

yet society turns a blind eye

Nope. There are plenty of efforts to solve the problem. I think it's many parents who have turned the blind eye.

but rather yells and screams when laws are enacted that force these kids to be taken off of the streets.

The Klein bill was illegal. See: The Patriot Act.

Yeah, as a society as a whole, we have more freedoms now but that is not always a good thing when you consider the next generation coming up was raised on Nintendo and Xbox.

More Freedom means More Responsibility.

Don't want your kid raised on Nintendo and Xbox--don't give them one. Learn to say NO to your kid. Unless that is, you're exhausted after work and you choose not to spend time with your kid. In that case, you reap what you sow.

If you come from a low income family, and the Federal Tax Credit is still not enough to enable one of you to stop working, (which is largely the fault of the baby-boom generation--the most selfish generation in history), then spend what little time you do get with them.

If you come from a middle class family, spend time with your kids.

Seriously: it's called responsibility and sacrifice, something I see conservatives in Alberta forgetting.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Actually now a days parents have very little control over what values their children are taught. At school's their are drugs, sex, and violence. I myself believe that we should make laws that protect children from pedophiles, drug dealers, and the scumbags in society.

Most girls that end up going into prostitution are from middle class/ suburban homes. They are forced into it, due to the fact that they may be introduced to drugs by predators. Once girls are hooked they are forced into prostitution to help feed their habit. Here is what I propose to help children

-$3000 off every child

- Raise the age of consent to 18, this will allow the parents to make sure their children are safe from scumbags

- Create a zero-tolerance rule for drug dealing, caught once drug dealing 5 years in prison, second time drug dealing 10 years in prison, third time life imprisonment.

- We should start to build jails up in the arctic for violent offenders. This way if any tried to escape they would probably die in the cold, or at the least be to far away from civilization to hurt any innocents.

- Get more school resource officers, I believe that their should be a school resource officer at each and every school to provide support to those who need help

- Ban all pornography depicting a person under the age of 18

- Ban materials from school's that promote sexual values that many parents don't believe in, S&M, Homosexual, Anal, etc. Need I say more

- Sex Ed programs should focus more on how students should deal with responsibilty, and promote safe sex and abstinence as option. Sex ed programs should also focus on how teens should deal with sexual abuse

[takeanumber]

-$3000 off every child

?

Raise the age of consent to 18, this will allow the parents to make sure their children are safe from scumbags

How will that 'protect' children from scumbags?

Create a zero-tolerance rule for drug dealing, caught once drug dealing 5 years in prison, second time drug dealing 10 years in prison, third time life imprisonment.

I think that's the current law. We attack dealers in Canada, not users. So what's the problem?

We should start to build jails up in the arctic for violent offenders. This way if any tried to escape they would probably die in the cold, or at the least be to far away from civilization to hurt any innocents.

EXPENSIVE. you gotta pay guards sooo much money to live up there, not to mention all the trucking.

Get more school resource officers, I believe that their should be a school resource officer at each and every school to provide support to those who need help

That's how it is in Calgary. It's a good idea.

Ban all pornography depicting a person under the age of 18

All porn with persons UNDER 18 is illegal.

The term 'depict' is subjective. Somebody is is 22 could look 16. So what, the 22yo looses the right to do porn?

That's illiberal.

Ban materials from school's that promote sexual values that many parents don't believe in, S&M, Homosexual, Anal, etc. Need I say more

There are consent forms for that education. Don't like it? Don't sign them.

Get a backbone. YOU HAVE A CHOICE NOT TO SEND YOUR KID TO THOSE CLASSES.

Sex Ed programs should focus more on how students should deal with responsibilty,

That's YOUR job as a parent. Why are you asking the state to RAISE YOUR KID?

and promote safe sex and abstinence as option.

it is.

Sex ed programs should also focus on how teens should deal with sexual abuse

They do.

------------------

Do you really have any idea what goes on in high schools now? Seriously? I think you've been reading too much Alberta Report.

[Bro]

Bro:

Your statement is evocative but meaningless.

Would the average citizen in 1867 have the opportunities that we have today ? I doubt it.

From 1867 on Canadians worked to build a country and bring it together,your philosophies are working to tear it apart.The sad part is that it won't take you and your likeminded leftwing fanatics as long to destroy it as

it did for the generations of people to build it.

[NDP Newbie]

"Actually now a days parents have very little control over what values their children are taught. At school's their are drugs' date=' sex, and violence. I myself believe that we should make laws that protect children from pedophiles, drug dealers, and the scumbags in society."

[/quote']

I agree. Punish pedophiles more harshly and create laws that regulate rather than prohibit drugs, so as to take them out of the underground.

Most girls that end up going into prostitution are from middle class/ suburban homes. They are forced into it, due to the fact that they may be introduced to drugs by predators. Once girls are hooked they are forced into prostitution to help feed their habit. Here is what I propose to help children"

Ok

"-$3000 off every child"

Good

"- Raise the age of consent to 18, this will allow the parents to make sure their children are safe from scumbags"

14 is fine, but the prohibition on adults have sex with teen-agers should be extended to include all adults: Not just authority figures. Perhaps limit to authority figures at 16.

"- Create a zero-tolerance rule for drug dealing, caught once drug dealing 5 years in prison, second time drug dealing 10 years in prison, third time life imprisonment."

No. Create a regulatory climate where drug dealing will have no place to exist.

"- We should start to build jails up in the arctic for violent offenders. This way if any tried to escape they would probably die in the cold, or at the least be to far away from civilization to hurt any innocents."

The punish is harsh, deals with violent criminals, and can be reversible in the case of false convictions.

Works for me.

"- Get more school resource officers, I believe that their should be a school resource officer at each and every school to provide support to those who need help"

Fine

"- Ban all pornography depicting a person under the age of 18"

Fine

I've never heard of a public school promoting of S&M or any sexual position, but I believe that schools have a role in fighting homophobia, and that that role includes education.

"- Sex Ed programs should focus more on how students should deal with responsibilty, and promote safe sex and abstinence as option. Sex ed programs should also focus on how teens should deal with sexual abuse"

Not bad. A lot more sane than those wackos in the GOP south of the border support.

:-)

[Alliance Fanatic]

I believe that at some school's in British Columbia kids as young as 10 were learning about homosexual relationships. I myself believe that school's should teach that its wrong to preach hatred against homosexuality, however a school must never ever preach that homosexuality is an acceptable/healthy lifestyle due to the fact it might conflict with peoples beliefs.

By the way, takeanumber guess what if the age of consent is set at 18, than parents can make sure children are not token advantage of by 45 year old creeps.

The fact is even in the best of homes children can still be corrupted by the outside world, and this is why society must do everything possible to protect children.

[takeanumber]

I believe that at some school's in British Columbia kids as young as 10 were learning about homosexual relationships. I myself believe that school's should teach that its wrong to preach hatred against homosexuality,

Very Canadian of you.

however a school must never ever preach that homosexuality is an acceptable/healthy lifestyle due to the fact it might conflict with peoples beliefs.

Teaching facts like evolution, the fact that the earth is flat, and that there is no such thing as 'races' in the human species might conflict with people's beliefs.

But we still teach them in public schools.

By the way, takeanumber guess what if the age of consent is set at 18, than parents can make sure children are not token advantage of by 45 year old creeps.

Parents can make sure that their children are not taken advantage by 45 year old creeps if the age of consent is set at 14 as well.

It's called parenting.

The fact is even in the best of homes children can still be corrupted by the outside world, and this is why society must do everything possible to protect children.

The first line of defence for children are the skills and values imparted to the children at very young ages.

Don't steal. Don't bully. Don't lie. Think about what people tell you. Think about consequences. Understand consequences. Understand benefits. Understand right touching. Understand wrong touching. Understand danger. Knowledge of right from wrong. Understanding of risk.

You can never control every single factor in a society. To do so would result in a society that you wouldn't want to live in.

The first line, and BEST line of defence for children, is proper parenting.

The fact that you can't isolate a family from society means that you have to prepare children for those influences.

We can enact a million laws 'for the children', but it will never absolve a parent from raising their children instead of letting television raise them.

Are we clear on the point of parental and personal responsibility, and the centrality of CHOICE, FREEDOM and RESPONSIBILITY in contemporary Canadian society?

[playfullfellow]

The problem that I've seen with 14yo girls who sleep with 45yo men willingly is pretty simple: bad parents.

Hmmmmmmmmm, so you never broke the rules of the house as a teenager? I am sure your parents are glad you were an angel. I have seen some of the most well brought up kids make mistakes. I have also seen old guys go after young girls because they were very impressionable.

You have a CHOICE to make. Do you forego salary for 5 years so you can raise your kid, or do you shove them into daycare?

Actually we did it for 8 years to make sure our kids are raised right. Not to be able to buy our own place, we both have to work but our kids are old enough now to understand. We also spend every spare minute we can with our kids. Money is tight but who needs money to go for a walk with the kids. Video games are very controlled and basically limited to racing games or duck hunt. We do not ask anything at all from the government and pay very close attention to our kids education. I am a conservative by nature and am proud of it. I only ask for laws that allow me to protect the samctity of my family. We made the sacrifices for our kids and will continue to do so. So when I ask for laws to protect my kids, don't give me any sanctimonious crap about me being a bad parent.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Homosexuality is not a healthy lifestyle. I believe that homosexuality is wrong. But I do not go around trying to kill homosexuals and believe that society should care for homosexuals. But I draw the line when the homosexual lifestyle is flaunted in main street, and my town is forced to have a gay pride parade.

Would you like me to list all of the different type of anal/oral sex that can be preformed. I know heterosexuals have some perverted fetishes to, but I doubt schools encourage it.

[takeanumber]

Hmmmmmmmmm, so you never broke the rules of the house as a teenager? I am sure your parents are glad you were an angel. I have seen some of the most well brought up kids make mistakes. I have also seen old guys go after young girls because they were very impressionable

I broke rules.

But I never did things like drugs, or slept around with 45yo men.

Old guys go after the young, stupid, impressionable girls because they're young, stupid and impressionable.

Golly, I wonder who's responsibility it is to teach their children how to think and not be quite so gullible, eh?

It's all in the first five years folks.

only ask for laws that allow me to protect the samctity of my family. We made the sacrifices for our kids and will continue to do so.crap about me being a ba So when I ask for laws to protect my kids, don't give me any sanctimonious d parent.

You're asking for laws that cost society freedom. (entropy)

Censorship of television.

Censorship of violence.

Censorship of movies.

Where does this line of logic 'let's do it for the children?' stop?

See--it's just a classic guise of conservatives to do that: shun personal responsibility and ask 'would somebody please think of the children?" or worse, ask outright, "What do you got against children?"

I have nothing against children. Children are uber.

However, when people start shoving their values down my throat 'for the children', the line needs to be drawn.

The Age of Consent has very important ramifactions for other communities. If you'd spend some time to think about other communities instead of your own, perhaps you'd understand that.

But that's the conservative way: yourself first.

Look, if you raised your daughter to be that way, no amount of laws are going to protect her from herself. She will still manage to dress up way-to-mature-for-her-age when you're not looking, and she's still going to find some creep to give it up to.

Protection starts by teaching your kids the difference between right and wrong.

Instead of resorting to inumerable restrictions and policy options, let's start by teaching the kids that. And then focus on teaching them how to think.

WRT sex offenders:

They cannot be rehabilitated. They need to be locked up, or sent off to a nice all-sex-offender community where they can grow potatoes and whatever.

[playfullfellow]

However, when people start shoving their values down my throat 'for the children', the line needs to be drawn.

However, when people start shoving their values down my throat 'for the children', the line needs to be drawn.

You're asking for laws that cost society freedom. (entropy)

Censorship of television.

I am more than capable of judging what me kids can or can't watch on tv, btw, never did mention asking for tv censorship.

Censorship of violence

My personal opinion is that some violence in movies and video games have gone way overboard but I do not allow this sort of crap in my house.

Censorship of movies

I pick and chose which movies my family gets to watch.

The Age of Consent has very important ramifactions for other communities. If you'd spend some time to think about other communities instead of your own, perhaps you'd understand that.

Please elaborate on which communities this would have ramifications on?

However, when people start shoving their values down my throat 'for the children', the line needs to be drawn.

you could just as easily apply this to people shoving their values about other groups (homosexuals, disabled people, minorities) down your throat too. Or should we not protect all groups because they may or may not have had bad parents too?