whowhere Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 The GG needs to go, along with the Senate and the concept of the Queen being our sovereign. We need to elect the PM, have fixed election dates, recall legislation and term limits to office. We also need citizen initiatives and a citizen ratified constitution. All that just to modernize our political system. What your talking about requires a referundums and is to complex to achieve. What I am advocating is for Candians to select and choose the GG and not the unelected Prime Minister. For this to happen its as easy as the Monarch issuing a proclamation making it so or Canada's corrupt politicians can table a Bill to have the Canadian people vote in the GG to represent the Monarch. Once created this Bill can be sent to the Queen for her personal signature for Royal Ascent. After that, Canadians vote, a GG is elected, and the queen signs off on this elected GG. Nothing changes. All that changes is Canadians select the GG and not the unelected PM. Canada's needs politicians to spearhead this endeavor. A small change will create a dramatic impact and forever change and tilt the dynamics of Canada back to the Canadian people. Canadians will have the ability to directly vote for a person who will tiller our Country and keep us striving forward instead morphing Canada into an Asian sweatshop: The Conservative aspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Why do all of those things need to change? We have what is most certainly one of the best countries in the world. Why would we want to seriously change the things that have brought us to here? Why would we want to change what is probably the most stable government system in the entire world in favour of something that some people think is more 'fair' and 'democratic'? Nothing is changing except Canadians will choose the GG and not the unelected PM. Any move to make Canada democratic and accountable to the Canadian people has to be embraced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 The Governor General serves no functional purpose other than t represent the crown...at what expense? The Senate serves no functional purpose other than to duplicate the efforts of elected representatives, in addition they are appointed which is contrary to democratic doctrine. Lack of recall legislation allows elected representatives of the people to the ability to ignore the needs,wants and desires of those people that elected them and gives them the ability to act against the interests of constituents for partisan cause. Not having fixed election dates allows governments to manipulate political situations to either avoid or force elections upon citizens. The absence of term limits provides for the entrenchment of elected individuals within the political system and allows them to grow fat on the public dime. In a democracy the will of the people is expressed through legislative efforts and subverting that will defies any logical explanation in defense of democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Nothing is changing except Canadians will choose the GG and not the unelected PM. Except that I wasn't talking to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Except that I wasn't talking to you. This is a forum. Deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) The Governor General serves no functional purpose other than t represent the crown...at what expense? We'd still need a head of state....at what expense? I think something like a dollar per Canadian isn't bad, and that's what we pay right now. The Senate serves no functional purpose other than to duplicate the efforts of elected representatives, in addition they are appointed which is contrary to democratic doctrine. That's not the Senate's job at all, and it's not what they do. Their job is to review and study the legislation (except when they're introducing it themselves). They serve as a check on the elected body. Even if they end up being elected, they'll still serve much of the same function, which is important to any federation. Also, not everything in our system needs to be elected. We aren't a democracy in the absolute sense. Lack of recall legislation allows elected representatives of the people to the ability to ignore the needs,wants and desires of those people that elected them and gives them the ability to act against the interests of constituents for partisan cause. Until the next election. I said that our system was stable. A lack of recall is part of that stability. Not having fixed election dates allows governments to manipulate political situations to either avoid or force elections upon citizens. And having fixed election dates ends the accountability of the government to parliament...it could also end in legislative deadlock. The absence of term limits provides for the entrenchment of elected individuals within the political system and allows them to grow fat on the public dime. The people who are elected are elected by the people. It's up to the people in the constituencies to decide if their representatives get another term, not sure arbitrary rule. I'm must sure where we'd have the constitutional ability to enforce term limits. Every Canadian citizen of the majority age is able to vote and run in elections. Term limits would run contrary to that. In a democracy the will of the people is expressed through legislative efforts and subverting that will defies any logical explanation in defense of democracy. Sometimes the people are wrong. he peoples will can't be absolute, and that's why we have checks and balances, as well as a Constitution. That's why we don't have absolute democracy. Edited December 5, 2009 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 This is a forum. Deal with it. I'm saying that I wasn't answering your question, so you're theories weren't relevant at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 SmallC having watched five decades of events in this nation I can assure you that those things of which I am speaking are in fact needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 The Governor General serves no functional purpose other than t represent the crown...at what expense? The Senate serves no functional purpose other than to duplicate the efforts of elected representatives, in addition they are appointed which is contrary to democratic doctrine. Lack of recall legislation allows elected representatives of the people to the ability to ignore the needs,wants and desires of those people that elected them and gives them the ability to act against the interests of constituents for partisan cause. Not having fixed election dates allows governments to manipulate political situations to either avoid or force elections upon citizens. The absence of term limits provides for the entrenchment of elected individuals within the political system and allows them to grow fat on the public dime. In a democracy the will of the people is expressed through legislative efforts and subverting that will defies any logical explanation in defense of democracy. Your missing the fact that nothing makes it into law unless the Governor General signs it. That is veto power. Parliment and any acts of Parliament has to get by the GG. If the GG refuses to ascent the Legislation its void. That is how Canada is Constutionally structured. I would rather Canadians elect the GG than have an unelected PM appoint a rubberstamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Not only that, Monarchs were a product of the UK people and parliment; not the UK people and parliament a product of the monarch. Something, the dullards on this thread have to bear in mind when digesting the BNA act and the Statue of westminister.If you're right why the adulation for the Queen even in non-Commonwealth countries such as the U.S.? Why were all TV's tuned to Princess Di's funeral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Oh, you don't know how much homework he has to do. He believes the word "Canada" is copyrighted by France, with the only Canadians to ever fight in a war being those who participated in the American Revolution against the Queen, no Canadians having fought in WWII or Korea because they weren't citizens until 1955, even though Britain conscripted Canadians to fight in WWII because the Canadian constitution still lies in the parliament at Westminster and can be revoked by the Queen at the command of the British parliament, which is one and the same with the Canadian parliament, leaving Canadians still as subjects of the British government, including the Newfoundlanders who were forced to join Canada by the Queen when she was still a 23 year old princess. And if you don't believe any of this, you're a victim of brainwashing! Great bibliography!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 What your talking about requires (a referundum)(a referundums) (take your pick) and is too complex to achieve. What I am advocating is for Candians to select and choose the GG and not the unelected Prime Minister. For this to happen its as easy as the Monarch issuing a proclamation making it so or Canada's corrupt politicians can table tabling a Bill to have the Canadian people vote in the GG to represent the Monarch. Once created this Bill can be sent to the Queen for her personal signature for Royal Ascent Assent. After that, Canadians vote, a GG is elected, and the queen signs off on this elected GG. Nothing changes. All that changes is Canadians select the GG and not the unelected PM. Canada's needs politicians to spearhead this endeavor. A small change will create a dramatic impact and forever change and tilt the dynamics of Canada back to the Canadian people. Canadians will have the ability to directly vote for a person who will tiller our Country and keep us striving forward instead of morphing Canada into an Asian sweatshop:; The Conservative aspiration. Even with that work, I still wonder at the choice of the word "tillering". Even more so, I really wonder what concrete difference these changes would make to the average 2009-2010 Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Great bibliography!!! I have a post stalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Oh, you don't know how much homework he has to do. He believes the word "Canada" is copyrighted by France, with the only Canadians to ever fight in a war being those who participated in the American Revolution against the Queen, no Canadians having fought in WWII or Korea because they weren't citizens until 1955, even though Britain conscripted Canadians to fight in WWII because the Canadian constitution still lies in the parliament at Westminster and can be revoked by the Queen at the command of the British parliament, which is one and the same with the Canadian parliament, leaving Canadians still as subjects of the British government, including the Newfoundlanders who were forced to join Canada by the Queen when she was still a 23 year old princess. And if you don't believe any of this, you're a victim of brainwashing! Great bibliography!!! I have a post stalker Aren't you glad at least g_bambino takes you seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 We need to elect the PM, have fixed election dates, recall legislation and term limits to office.] Ah, so become America North. Wonderful plan, Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Aren't you glad at least g_bambino takes you seriously? Jbg, you cad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 The Governor General serves no functional purpose other than t represent the crown...at what expense? The Senate serves no functional purpose other than to duplicate the efforts of elected representatives, in addition they are appointed which is contrary to democratic doctrine. *Sigh* Why, Jerry, do you refuse to accept that democracy does not stem from votes alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Maternity leave for one. An American on another site I frequent couldn't believe that women here get a year. Our EI and their UI are not very alike....neither are our provincial WCBs. I have just learned of new Case that makes Canada a scumbag Country. A women is about to go on Mat leave and her bossed phone her to tell her she is going to be laid off probably when she returns from mat leave. She and her husband recently bought a house so really this about the worse thing that can happen to her. The way EI works is if you exhaust the weeks on mat leave and you get laid off your only support will be to go on welfare. This is what makes Canada the garbage country it is. Garbage people all way around. Canada is all about feathering the nests of politicians and government workers. To hell with what is right. If the conservatives are serious about Canadians then they should go after these predatory employers. Conservatives are not a Canadian party the are an immigrant party. The world first, Canadians last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 *Sigh* Why, Jerry, do you refuse to accept that democracy does not stem from votes alone? Because our votes don't count at all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Because our votes don't count at all..... That doesn't answer my question in the least; in fact, your response only begs my question even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 In Canada you don't elect the leader. In Canada you don't elect a government. In Canada your one lousy vote lets you support a representative from a political party that elects its own leader. The number of elected representatives doesn't even elect a government, that is the function of the Governor General who selects which partisan group or even in theory groups to form a government. The people have no say about what government is formed and who is the big cheese at the PMO's office. What portion of democracy allows that to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 In Canada your one lousy vote lets you support a representative from a political party that elects its own leader. What portion of democracy allows that to happen? The voting part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 In Canada you don't elect the leader. In Canada you don't elect a government. In Canada your one lousy vote lets you support a representative from a political party that elects its own leader. The number of elected representatives doesn't even elect a government, that is the function of the Governor General who selects which partisan group or even in theory groups to form a government. The people have no say about what government is formed and who is the big cheese at the PMO's office. What portion of democracy allows that to happen? And you are lucky enough to live in one of the best countries in the world. If you oppose your government, your preacher etc. no one will cut your head off. All countries we commonly though mistakingly call "democracies" are in fact representative governments. All things considered our governments are terrible, except less terrible than the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 In Canada you don't elect the leader. In Canada you don't elect a government. In Canada your one lousy vote lets you support a representative from a political party that elects its own leader. The number of elected representatives doesn't even elect a government, that is the function of the Governor General who selects which partisan group or even in theory groups to form a government. The people have no say about what government is formed and who is the big cheese at the PMO's office. What portion of democracy allows that to happen? That's why I think that Canada needs one courages politicians to set the wheels in motion and table a bill in Parliment outlining Canadians will vote and select the Governor General to represent the monarch. Once the Bill is passed it can be sent off to the Queen to be signed off on. Doing this is the clearest and fastest way for Canada to be a democracy. http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchAndCommonwealth/Canada/GovGenCan.aspx As the representative of The Queen in Canada, the Governor-General summons, opens and ends sessions of Parliament, reads the Speech from the Throne, gives Royal Assent to bills passed by the House of Commons and the Senate, signs State documents, and dissolves Parliament for an election. The Governor-General also presides over the swearing-in of the Prime Minister, the Chief Justice of Canada and cabinet ministers. The Governor General holds the power of veto and Can fire the Prime Minister and disolve parliament to force a change of parliament and cabinet. Canadians do not need to be held hostage by Conservative and Liberal feather nesters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Thanks. I needed my daily dose of crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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