Cheap points that the Liberal party can often score

[charter.rights]

I suppose you're saying the OP is not truth but yours is?

The OP is not truthful.

It is a fact that the Olympics is being held on unsurrendered land. None of BC has been treatied.

A boycott is democratic action.

Your confusion is your own.

[blueblood]

The OP is not truthful.

It is a fact that the Olympics is being held on unsurrendered land. None of BC has been treatied.

A boycott is democratic action.

Your confusion is your own.

Having the olympics is also a democratic action, majority rules!!!

[charter.rights]

Having the olympics is also a democratic action, majority rules!!!

Incorrect! There was no vote of the citizens or either Vancouver, BC or Canada to agree to the Olympics being there. It was a decision made by the elite - business owners and an undemocratic Olympic Committee out of the reach of average Canadians.

You really need to get an education about what democracy really is. No wonder the Conservatives think they run the country....geez.....

[Mr.Canada]

Incorrect! There was no vote of the citizens or either Vancouver, BC or Canada to agree to the Olympics being there. It was a decision made by the elite - business owners and an undemocratic Olympic Committee out of the reach of average Canadians.

You really need to get an education about what democracy really is. No wonder the Conservatives think they run the country....geez.....

The Olympics will be great for Canada and great for the economy. It'll be a real boost to Canadian morale which in trying time can be seen to wane. A good boost to our patriotism and pride will do wonders for Canada. People will finally start believing that PM is the best man to lead this country into the future so I'll expect a big boost to Tory support surrounding the Olympics.

I just hope that the RCMP and CSIS are ready to tackle security and to disrupt and demonstrations. Similar to what they did at the World Cup in Germany I'd liketo see the RCMP arrest the trouble makers and lock them up until the Olympics are over. We cannot afford any demonstrator foolishness at this Olympics and they must be arrested and detained swiftly and silently.

No discussion and zero tolerance is needed. Any sign of trouble and don't erect barricades for them at taxpayer expense, NO! If they see 1 megaphone, arrest that person immediately and sendt hem off to jail, anyone else gets out of line arrest them as well and send them off to jail as well. Keep them locked up for the duration of the Olympics so that the majority of us can have a safe and fun t ime.

We don't need our Olympics being taken over by terrorists. I'm pretty sure that the security will be tight as it is at all world events now a days.

[Shakeyhands]

The Olympics will be great for Canada and great for the economy. It'll be a real boost to Canadian morale which in trying time can be seen to wane. A good boost to our patriotism and pride will do wonders for Canada. People will finally start believing that PM is the best man to lead this country into the future so I'll expect a big boost to Tory support surrounding the Olympics.

I just hope that the RCMP and CSIS are ready to tackle security and to disrupt and demonstrations. Similar to what they did at the World Cup in Germany I'd liketo see the RCMP arrest the trouble makers and lock them up until the Olympics are over. We cannot afford any demonstrator foolishness at this Olympics and they must be arrested and detained swiftly and silently.

No discussion and zero tolerance is needed. Any sign of trouble and don't erect barricades for them at taxpayer expense, NO! If they see 1 megaphone, arrest that person immediately and sendt hem off to jail, anyone else gets out of line arrest them as well and send them off to jail as well. Keep them locked up for the duration of the Olympics so that the majority of us can have a safe and fun t ime.

We don't need our Olympics being taken over by terrorists. I'm pretty sure that the security will be tight as it is at all world events now a days.

WOW... I don't even know where to start on this one.. wait.. maybe on:

People will finally start believing that PM is the best man to lead this country into the future so I'll expect a big boost to Tory support surrounding the Olympics.

Delusional. What do you figure he has anything to with the Olympics? Sure, he'll try to take as much credit as he can, but really..

[ba1614]

The Olympics will be great for Canada and great for the economy. It'll be a real boost to Canadian morale which in trying time can be seen to wane. A good boost to our patriotism and pride will do wonders for Canada. People will finally start believing that PM is the best man to lead this country into the future so I'll expect a big boost to Tory support surrounding the Olympics.

I just hope that the RCMP and CSIS are ready to tackle security and to disrupt and demonstrations. Similar to what they did at the World Cup in Germany I'd liketo see the RCMP arrest the trouble makers and lock them up until the Olympics are over. We cannot afford any demonstrator foolishness at this Olympics and they must be arrested and detained swiftly and silently.

No discussion and zero tolerance is needed. Any sign of trouble and don't erect barricades for them at taxpayer expense, NO! If they see 1 megaphone, arrest that person immediately and sendt hem off to jail, anyone else gets out of line arrest them as well and send them off to jail as well. Keep them locked up for the duration of the Olympics so that the majority of us can have a safe and fun t ime.

We don't need our Olympics being taken over by terrorists. I'm pretty sure that the security will be tight as it is at all world events now a days.

Jeebus! I sure hope the CPC doesn't adopt that attitude or they'll lose a boatload of us that have been propping them over the last few years.

I would truly have nobody to vote for if that Gestapo tactic is employed, and Harper were to support it.

I fully support cracking the whip should the protests get violent, or illegal, but our right to a peaceful demonstration is as basic a right as we have.

[charter.rights]

Jeebus! I sure hope the CPC doesn't adopt that attitude or they'll lose a boatload of us that have been propping them over the last few years.

I would truly have nobody to vote for if that Gestapo tactic is employed, and Harper were to support it.

I fully support cracking the whip should the protests get violent, or illegal, but our right to a peaceful demonstration is as basic a right as we have.

Elsewhere Mr. Canada has already advocated that the government violently take out the opposition to the Conservatives. He advocates civil war as a means to reduce democratic protest and now he advocates criminalizing peaceful demonstrators to suit his violent right wing agenda. That is fascism at best - not democracy. Nor does it represent Conservative values as I understand them.

Perhaps this is the kind of hidden agenda that most Canadians fear would happen if the Conservative got a majority. That is why a minority Conservative government is the only thing we should ever see.

[blueblood]

Incorrect! There was no vote of the citizens or either Vancouver, BC or Canada to agree to the Olympics being there. It was a decision made by the elite - business owners and an undemocratic Olympic Committee out of the reach of average Canadians.

You really need to get an education about what democracy really is. No wonder the Conservatives think they run the country....geez.....

Except there was a movement to bring the olympics to vancouver, there was a delegation sent that was sent to the choosing ceremony and there are plenty of flag wavers in Vancouver. If there was a significant anti olympic movement, an opposition political party would have jumped all over it. The problem in your circumstance is that there is no significant anti olympic movement, no political party would dare oppose the games. That is democracy in action. Cripes the anti gun registry has more support than the anti olympic movement. Dollars to donuts says the average Canadian supports the olympic games.

I think your the one who needs an education in what democracy is. Remember democracy is a two way street, just because somebody has ideas different than yours doesn't mean they are un democratic. Suggesting that makes you a hypocrite. If you think democracy is blindly following a document, I suggest you go to your poli-sci prof and ask for a refund. Some posters here think that section 35 of the charter is codswallop, are they undemocratic for thinking so? That's as legitimate as a movement as boycotting the olympic games.

[Mr.Canada]

Elsewhere Mr. Canada has already advocated that the government violently take out the opposition to the Conservatives. He advocates civil war as a means to reduce democratic protest and now he advocates criminalizing peaceful demonstrators to suit his violent right wing agenda. That is fascism at best - not democracy. Nor does it represent Conservative values as I understand them.

Perhaps this is the kind of hidden agenda that most Canadians fear would happen if the Conservative got a majority. That is why a minority Conservative government is the only thing we should ever see.

The arrest of protesters will happen during the Olympics if they get out of line. Security will be extremely tight as it was in Salt Lake. I wouldn't be surprised if the Americans are helping our boys get into fighting shape for this world event. The world wouldn't come if security wasn't looked after.

Locking up protesters until after the Olympics is over is a reasonable thing to do if they get out of line and cause a disturbance. If they are let out the will only embarrass Canada further with their unpatriotic antics which is their goal. To make sure Canada is embarrassed while the world is watching.

If they shove a police officer which they will, I want to see them arrested immediately and locked up for the remainder of the Olympics so they cannot be of further threat to the fine citizens of Canada who wish to watch the games peacefully and without incident.

The head of the security detail has already stated that disturbances will not be permitted and the laws of Canada will be strictly enforced during the Torch Run. I can only assume that this effort will be redoubles during the actual games themselves.

[ToadBrother]

The arrest of protesters will happen during the Olympics if they get out of line. Security will be extremely tight as it was in Salt Lake. I wouldn't be surprised if the Americans are helping our boys get into fighting shape for this world event. The world wouldn't come if security wasn't looked after.

Locking up protesters until after the Olympics is over is a reasonable thing to do if they get out of line and cause a disturbance. If they are let out the will only embarrass Canada further with their unpatriotic antics which is their goal. To make sure Canada is embarrassed while the world is watching.

You mean an essential liberty should be curbed because someone might get embarassed.

If they shove a police officer which they will, I want to see them arrested immediately and locked up for the remainder of the Olympics so they cannot be of further threat to the fine citizens of Canada who wish to watch the games peacefully and without incident.

And what if the cops instigate these actions? I think we've seen this enough times at various international events.

The head of the security detail has already stated that disturbances will not be permitted and the laws of Canada will be strictly enforced during the Torch Run. I can only assume that this effort will be redoubles during the actual games themselves.

What about the constitutional rights of free assembly and freedom of expression?

[ToadBrother]

Except there was a movement to bring the olympics to vancouver, there was a delegation sent that was sent to the choosing ceremony and there are plenty of flag wavers in Vancouver. If there was a significant anti olympic movement, an opposition political party would have jumped all over it. The problem in your circumstance is that there is no significant anti olympic movement, no political party would dare oppose the games. That is democracy in action. Cripes the anti gun registry has more support than the anti olympic movement. Dollars to donuts says the average Canadian supports the olympic games.

The only democratic part of this I saw was the referendum in Vancouver. I, as a BCer not living in the Lower Mainland, have seen vast tax dollars spent on this spectacle, while the rest of the Province sees infrastructure faltering. The Province has finally stopped bailing out Vancouver, and that's a good thing, because the City looks to be losing a few hundred million dollars on that little condo development scheme. I wonder how many Vancouverites will love the Olympics when they find out how far they have to dig into their pockets for these games.

I think your the one who needs an education in what democracy is. Remember democracy is a two way street, just because somebody has ideas different than yours doesn't mean they are un democratic. Suggesting that makes you a hypocrite. If you think democracy is blindly following a document, I suggest you go to your poli-sci prof and ask for a refund. Some posters here think that section 35 of the charter is codswallop, are they undemocratic for thinking so? That's as legitimate as a movement as boycotting the olympic games.

Essential rights are essential because they cannot be revoked by a government at a whim. If protesters become violent, then yes, reign them in, but the right to free speech and free assembly is enshrined in the constitution, and any law curbing that cannot stand. What's being bargained on here is that before any case wends its way through the courts, the Olympics will be long gone.

[Mr.Canada]

And what if the cops instigate these actions? I think we've seen this enough times at various international events.

According to many protesters the mere presence of the police is enough to instigate, which is preposterous. The police are there to make sure protesters don't start looting everything in sight and hurting innocent citizens who don't wish to be terrorized.

What about the constitutional rights of free assembly and freedom of expression?

All well and good just don't break the law, which protesters have a hard time not doing as the mob mentality often takes over and people get carried away. I want to see protesters being pepper sprayed and hauled off to jail if they get violent or break the law.

There is no place for disruptive behavior during a very positive and patriotic time. People need to stop whining and get behind our country. A strong unified country will succeed a divided one will fall.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[ToadBrother]

All well and good just don't break the law, which protesters have a hard time not doing as the mob mentality often takes over and people get carried away. I want to see protesters being pepper sprayed and hauled off to jail if they get violent or break the law.

And I want their fundamental rights honored where they are peacefully protesting. No one is defending the anarchist squad here.

There is no place for disruptive behavior during a very positive and patriotic time. People need to stop whining and get behind our country. A strong unified country will succeed a divided one will fall.

People have a right to speak out against what they view is wrong. It's so sad that the lesson of Socrates keeps being forgotten. Using patriotism to shut down dissent is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

[blueblood]

The only democratic part of this I saw was the referendum in Vancouver. I, as a BCer not living in the Lower Mainland, have seen vast tax dollars spent on this spectacle, while the rest of the Province sees infrastructure faltering. The Province has finally stopped bailing out Vancouver, and that's a good thing, because the City looks to be losing a few hundred million dollars on that little condo development scheme. I wonder how many Vancouverites will love the Olympics when they find out how far they have to dig into their pockets for these games.

Essential rights are essential because they cannot be revoked by a government at a whim. If protesters become violent, then yes, reign them in, but the right to free speech and free assembly is enshrined in the constitution, and any law curbing that cannot stand. What's being bargained on here is that before any case wends its way through the courts, the Olympics will be long gone.

I don't care about the protesters, they can protest until they are blue in the face. But to say the olympics and their taking place in vancouver being undemocratic is flat out foolish.

[kimmy]

I have just learned that messages expressing views you disagree with are "propaganda or political spam", but messages you agree with are "democratic action in defense of a truth."

As for the natives... they've cleverly identified the Olympics as a huge opportunity for a shake-down, much in the same way that Post Office labour trouble usually coincides with the weeks approaching Christmas.

Personally, I will probably buy some of the officially licensed native artwork, as a means of supporting natives who've "sold out" by cooperating with this event, and as a means of thumbing my nose at those who charter-rights represents.

-k

[punked]

Here are some awesome cheep points If you can't make news just fake it.

Normally after question period MPs step out to one of three microphones in the foyer of the House of Commons. A camera is set up there to record them and journalists stand on either side to ask questions. The event is called a scrum because reporters shoot questions at the MPs on topics of interest in an area wired for sound and pictures.

But yesterday Liberal MPs, Carolyn Bennett and Kirsty Duncan stepped up to a microphone, stood in front of the cameras, and without a journalist in sight began talking as though they had just been asked a question. This went on for several minutes, as the two MPs appeared to be fighting over the microphone to make statements. And when they were finished Bennett even appeared to wave to a journalist - that wasn't there - before walking off camera

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/10/13/theatre-of-the-absurd/

[ToadBrother]

I don't care about the protesters, they can protest until they are blue in the face. But to say the olympics and their taking place in vancouver being undemocratic is flat out foolish.

Well, it was signed on to by a democratically-elected government, so you can't claim it was undemocratic.

What it was, and still is, is unfair to the rest of BC which will get little in the way of appreciable economic benefits, will have to pay a good deal for this little steroid-fest, and will likely see services and infrastructure erode further because ill-timing and the Province's vast (and still untallied) expenditures.

I've long held that if people feel the Olympics is somehow necessary, then let's just build one kick-ass sports center in Greece, where it all began, and be done with all the naughtiness and ludicrousness that goes along with this corrupt and questionable traveling show. It's hard to imagine anyone supporting the games after the mockery Beijing made of it, but, as they say, there's a fool born every minute.

[madmax]

Here are some awesome cheep points If you can't make news just fake it.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/10/13/theatre-of-the-absurd/

I think it was clever.

[dre]

I just hope that the RCMP and CSIS are ready to tackle security and to disrupt and demonstrations. Similar to what they did at the World Cup in Germany I'd liketo see the RCMP arrest the trouble makers and lock them up until the Olympics are over. We cannot afford any demonstrator foolishness at this Olympics and they must be arrested and detained swiftly and silently.

ROFLMAO.

[blueblood]

Well, it was signed on to by a democratically-elected government, so you can't claim it was undemocratic.

What it was, and still is, is unfair to the rest of BC which will get little in the way of appreciable economic benefits, will have to pay a good deal for this little steroid-fest, and will likely see services and infrastructure erode further because ill-timing and the Province's vast (and still untallied) expenditures.

I've long held that if people feel the Olympics is somehow necessary, then let's just build one kick-ass sports center in Greece, where it all began, and be done with all the naughtiness and ludicrousness that goes along with this corrupt and questionable traveling show. It's hard to imagine anyone supporting the games after the mockery Beijing made of it, but, as they say, there's a fool born every minute.

The profitability of the olympics is up for debate. Some were profitable and some were a disaster (Montreal). I don't agree with VANOC getting into a pissing match with China, that's ridiculous.

However, my point was that democracy was a two way street and in the case of the games, the majority won.

[Pliny]

The OP is not truthful.

It is a fact that the Olympics is being held on unsurrendered land. None of BC has been treatied.

A boycott is democratic action.

Your confusion is your own.

Yes, it is a democratic action.

You are saying that there is unsurrendered land somewhere which I assume someone claims is theirs. If that is true no democracy is necessary - it is not public land but private land.

Why do I get the feeling that crying "democracy" is using it as a bully tactic?

The whole thing is that aboriginals are being made to be different than Canadians. They get advantages out of being discriminated against.

Is it an abhorrent thought to be assimilated into the general population? You know - be treated equally?

[ToadBrother]

Yes, it is a democratic action.

You are saying that there is unsurrendered land somewhere which I assume someone claims is theirs. If that is true no democracy is necessary - it is not public land but private land.

Why do I get the feeling that crying "democracy" is using it as a bully tactic?

The whole thing is that aboriginals are being made to be different than Canadians. They get advantages out of being discriminated against.

Is it an abhorrent thought to be assimilated into the general population? You know - be treated equally?

It seems the height of self-interest to go to people who you have economically benefited from to their great loss and declare "Guess what, you're equal now! Yay!"

But whatever your feeling, the nature of Aboriginal rights has its origins in the Royal Proclamation of 1763 and the Constitution Act, 1982. In short, fundamental laws grant them these rights, and perhaps if they had been dealt with fairly to begin with, none of this would be an issue. But they weren't, and here we are. If you wish, you can certainly try for a constitutional amendment, and good luck to you.

[Gabriel]

Although this is question with an obvious answer, I imagine there will be some folks in here who answer it incorrectly - Does the left-wing of Canada (politicians, journalists, common people, etc) have a dependable base of supporters who respond positively to anti-American (and anti-business/anti-market) rhetoric? Which of you out there dispute that anti-Americanism is a cheap and emotional way for those of the left to score political points with some of those on the left? I am not interested in debating whether or not this is a reality, but I'd rather discuss with intelligent people how this phenomenon has come into being, how it's evolved over time, and examine cases of it in our political history (i.e. inflammatory rhetoric from politicians or journalists).

I've spent a little time looking for information regarding anti-Americanism in Canada, and have been unimpressed with the information I've found. Considering that for honest and observant people, it's a noticeable component of Canadian political culture. That being said, I'm surprised that more efforts hasn't been devoted to examining this part of Canadian political culture. Perhaps I just haven't spend enough time on Google. Maybe I'll spend some time on this issue and write an article about it.

Just as an aside, I remember misrepresentations of America even as a child in elementary school, where I'd learn that Canada is a "mosaic", while America is a "melting pot" (which is untrue), that Americans are dumber/simpler, etc. It can get into you at a young age.