Bureaucrats objected to gov't ad campaign: sources

jdobbin · October 9, 2009

From Canadian Press:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...008?hub=QPeriod

More than one career bureaucrat said they've never seen anything so blatant as the current use of the office for self-promotion.
None would speak on the record, some for fear of reprisals, but many said it is a story that needs to be told.

"You have a political party that is not constrained by what conventionally would be perceived as overtly partisan actions," said one former insider.

"I can tell you every funding program across the government is being politicized," said another public servant.

"They do it for their own needs and they don't do it to help people. Welcome to Stephen Harper's world."

I expect we'll see a lot more of this in the months to come.

Bryan · October 9, 2009

From Canadian Press:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...008?hub=QPeriod

I expect we'll see a lot more of this in the months to come.

Whiny Liberal hacks making low blow attacks at the Government? I'm sure we will.

ToadBrother · October 9, 2009

Whiny Liberal hacks making low blow attacks at the Government? I'm sure we will.

And you're saying that the advertising isn't partisan?

If I was in charge, I would make it unlawful for any member of Cabinet to have their face on an taxpayer-funded poster or ad. I'd have an independent body that could declare an ad campaign partisan in nature and then send the bill to the party.

jdobbin · October 9, 2009

Whiny Liberal hacks making low blow attacks at the Government? I'm sure we will.

Furious right wing hacks deflecting? I'm sure that will happen as well.

Mr.Canada · October 9, 2009

From Canadian Press:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...008?hub=QPeriod

I expect we'll see a lot more of this in the months to come.

Billions of dollars are being spent on economic stimulus, I think it would be irresponsible of the government not to keep us informed of where this money is going and how it's being spent. I'll admit the ads were slightly gratuitous but at least the information about the stimulus spending is getting out to Canadians.

ToadBrother · October 9, 2009

Billions of dollars are being spent on economic stimulus, I think it would be irresponsible of the government not to keep us informed of where this money is going and how it's being spent. I'll admit the ads were slightly gratuitous but at least the information about the stimulus spending is getting out to Canadians.

Keeping us informed doesn't require Stalinesque pictures of Harper. The ads are purely political and I wish there was a system in place where we could seize money from parties who decide to use our cash to fund their advertising, with interest.

Shakeyhands · October 9, 2009

subliminal as well.... Has anyone noticed all the blue in the ads?

besides that, they tell us nothing.

ToadBrother · October 9, 2009

subliminal as well.... Has anyone noticed all the blue in the ads?
besides that, they tell us nothing.

We're a stone's throw away from "Roses for Comrade Harper".

Argus · October 9, 2009

del

Edited October 9, 2009 by Argus

Mr.Canada · October 9, 2009

We're a stone's throw away from "Roses for Comrade Harper".

Well, it was the Harper government that delivered us the stimulus package to begin with, no one else. It was the Tories plan for recovery that we're following no one elses. So I think it's good for Canadians to be informed about how their money is being spent and where.

Just this morning I was driving home and saw some chaps putting up a sign next to a length of road that was being repaired stating that it was because of the action plan that this is all possible.

I think it's good, it lets people see in real tangible terms where there money is going and what it's being spent on.

Argus · October 9, 2009

From Canadian Press:
I expect we'll see a lot more of this in the months to come.

Lousy reporting? Yes, I expect we will. CP is notorious for lousy reporting, especially after the cutbacks.

Let's see what we have. We have official denials from everyone involved. And we have some snarky anonymous comments from people alleged to be former PCO people - who may or may not be affiliated in some way with the Liberal Party of Canada, given that was who was stuffing the PCO with people up until a few years ago.

But since CP won't tell us who they are we are unable to evaluate what bias they might or might not have. In fact, we don't even know they exist.

Oh but wait, we had one person willing to go on record, a political science professor who said that basically, there's nothing new here. This sort of thing has been happening for 25 years, and Harper is no better and no worse than his predecessors"

Those "predecsesors" would be the people Jdobbin admires so much and wants to put back into office.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Argus

Shakeyhands · October 9, 2009

Well, it was the Harper government that delivered us the stimulus package to begin with, no one else. It was the Tories plan for recovery that we're following no one elses. So I think it's good for Canadians to be informed about how their money is being spent and where.
Just this morning I was driving home and saw some chaps putting up a sign next to a length of road that was being repaired stating that it was because of the action plan that this is all possible.

I think it's good, it lets people see in real tangible terms where there money is going and what it's being spent on.

Seriously? You need to pick up a paper man.

ToadBrother · October 9, 2009

Well, it was the Harper government that delivered us the stimulus package to begin with, no one else. It was the Tories plan for recovery that we're following no one elses. So I think it's good for Canadians to be informed about how their money is being spent and where.

That's a load of bull. The Opposition parties had a significant amount of influence on it.

Just this morning I was driving home and saw some chaps putting up a sign next to a length of road that was being repaired stating that it was because of the action plan that this is all possible.
I think it's good, it lets people see in real tangible terms where there money is going and what it's being spent on.

Look at those pictures, and then look at this one:

http://dimpost.files.wordpress.com/2008/09...ladimirskij.jpg

I find this kind of iconography and the underlying notion that, in a democracy, the leader some how is the one responsible for what is in fact the actions of Parliament, very unpleasant.

An accurate picture would be Harper with Iggy, Layton and Duceppe holding a gun to his head.

Edited October 9, 2009 by ToadBrother

jdobbin · October 9, 2009

Let's see what we have. We have official denials from everyone involved. And we have some snarky anonymous comments from people alleged to be former PCO people - who may or may not be affiliated in some way with the Liberal Party of Canada, given that was who was stuffing the PCO with people up until a few years ago.

It is funny what some on the right will take as gospel from unnamed sources and what they will deny.

Certainly the ads raised eyebrows with a few over the last weeks who were prepared to go on the record. However, we can dismiss any criticism since anyone who comments on the partisan nature of ads has to be partisan, right?

Mr.Canada · October 9, 2009

Seriously? You need to pick up a paper man.

That's a load of bull. The Opposition parties had a significant amount of influence on it.
Look at those pictures, and then look at this one:

http://dimpost.files.wordpress.com/2008/09...ladimirskij.jpg

I find this kind of iconography and the underlying notion that, in a democracy, the leader some how is the one responsible for what is in fact the actions of Parliament, very unpleasant.

An accurate picture would be Harper with Iggy, Layton and Duceppe holding a gun to his head.

Great, I caught two flies in my trap...thank you.

I know that but wanted to see it admitted in the open. Now, we all know that the Liberals and the NDP had a lot of influence as to what's actually in the stimulus package. Why them are they now trying to say that the debt is too high and that the Tories are spending too much money?

Then we have on the other Igantieff says thew money isn't flowing fast enough.

Almost everyday he is slamming the stimulus plan he helped create and slamming the amount of debt Canada is incurring when himself and his party are the ones who had input into it and voted in favor of the budget.

Seems a tad hypocritical doesn't it?

jdobbin · October 9, 2009

Why them are they now trying to say that the debt is too high and that the Tories are spending too much money?

Tories were overspending even before the recession hit.

Shady · October 9, 2009

More than one career bureaucrat

That's the key phrase of the story. Career bureaucrat = career Liberal bureaucrat. And I'm not suprised they're upset. They no longer hold power, and have been quite bothered by it for quite some time.

ToadBrother · October 9, 2009

Great, I caught two flies in my trap...thank you.
I know that but wanted to see it admitted in the open. Now, we all know that the Liberals and the NDP had a lot of influence as to what's actually in the stimulus package. Why them are they now trying to say that the debt is too high and that the Tories are spending too much money?

I never denied it.

Then we have on the other Igantieff says thew money isn't flowing fast enough.

Because it isn't.

Almost everyday he is slamming the stimulus plan he helped create and slamming the amount of debt Canada is incurring when himself and his party are the ones who had input into it and voted in favor of the budget.
Seems a tad hypocritical doesn't it?

That's politics for you. But the key point is that Harper has no business sticking himself on those ads. The stimulus package was an effort of Parliament with a helluva lot of front and back room dealing by all the parties.

A democracy shouldn't have pictures of smiling benevolent leaders. Leaders exist purely at the sufferance of of the people, and they should be reminded of that at every turn, and not permitted to use tax dollars to try to invoke cults of personality.

I mean, look at you. You practically worship the ground this guy walks on. He does not walk on water. He is not some mystic genius from Lost Atlantis. He is not the father of the country or a figure worthy of any particular or peculiar praise. He's a Prime Minister.

Edited October 9, 2009 by ToadBrother

jdobbin · October 9, 2009

That's the key phrase of the story. Career bureaucrat = career Liberal bureaucrat. And I'm not suprised they're upset. They no longer hold power, and have been quite bothered by it for quite some time.

Well, at the rate Harper is appointing people, they will be all be Tories soon. And won't that make you happy?

Argus · October 9, 2009

It is funny what some on the right will take as gospel from unnamed sources and what they will deny.
Certainly the ads raised eyebrows with a few over the last weeks who were prepared to go on the record. However, we can dismiss any criticism since anyone who comments on the partisan nature of ads has to be partisan, right?

Well... you certainly are.

And what exactly is your point anyway? That the Tories are using public advertising to push themselves? Yeah? And so? What do you want us to do about it?

Vote Liberal? LOL! :lol:

"That man is looking at my daughter's butt! I'm going to take her over and sit her next to that nice Mr. Bernardo where she'll be safe!"

Argus · October 9, 2009

wth is with these double posts?

Edited October 9, 2009 by Argus

jdobbin · October 9, 2009

Well... you certainly are.

Never denied I wasn't.

And what exactly is your point anyway? That the Tories are using public advertising to push themselves? Yeah? And so? What do you want us to do about it?

How about ensuring that there is someone to ensure that the ads serve a public purpose and don't fall into self-promotion?

It isn't that hard really.

I mean this is the stuff that you used to hate about the Liberals, right? And now the Tories do it and it is suddenly brilliant?

Argus · October 9, 2009

Never denied I wasn't.
How about ensuring that there is someone to ensure that the ads serve a public purpose and don't fall into self-promotion?

It isn't that hard really.

I mean this is the stuff that you used to hate about the Liberals, right? And now the Tories do it and it is suddenly brilliant?

This is little stuff. Yes, I didn't like it when the Libs did it, but it wasn't exactly a big, consequential issue for me. And no, I don't like it when the Tories do it, but it isn't a big, consequential issue now either.

And as I said, I have ZERO hope that a Liberal government would do any different anyway, so why would it even impact my vote or support for either of them?

Jack Weber · October 9, 2009

Well... you certainly are.
And what exactly is your point anyway? That the Tories are using public advertising to push themselves? Yeah? And so? What do you want us to do about it?

Vote Liberal? LOL!

"That man is looking at my daughter's butt! I'm going to take her over and sit her next to that nice Mr. Bernardo where she'll be safe!"

Real classy,dude...... :angry: :rolleyes:

ToadBrother · October 9, 2009

This is little stuff. Yes, I didn't like it when the Libs did it, but it wasn't exactly a big, consequential issue for me. And no, I don't like it when the Tories do it, but it isn't a big, consequential issue now either.
And as I said, I have ZERO hope that a Liberal government would do any different anyway, so why would it even impact my vote or support for either of them?

It is to me, because it's using government resources (translated: our money) for political advertising. It's wrong. If the Tories, the Liberals or Jesus Christ himself want to put out political ads, then let them bloody well pay for them.

I'd also like to see a ban on any member of Cabinet's face appearing on signs. It's unseemly and reminds me too much of how some regimes create Dear Leader posters and paintings.